Question Intel vs AMD this round (value, no flames please)

[sonofjesse]

So I just built a 7900x and 7700x systems (got the "FREE" ram was the only way it made sense to me from MC).


However looking at pricing.

13700k is 424 newegg and 380 at MC
13600k 319 newegg and 299 at MC

7700x 366 at newegg and 323 at MC
7900x 548 newegg and 499 at MC


13700k seems pretty close to a 7900x (Goes back and forth in a lot of gaming productivity stuff I'm seeing)
13600k is pretty close to a 7700x.

According to passmark, 13700k is lower multiple , but higher single thread than 7900x.
However 7700x is more single thread rating than the 13600k, but less multiple thread.

The pricing on AMD just makes zero sense its more expensive than intel, more $$ on MB's and requires DDR5 ram, the only thing it gives you is a future upgrade path (if your mobo maker gives you a bios update they usually do).

now the non X chips can be used with PBO to get like 98% of the same performance as a X chip for AMD, however so far the pricing I have seen which is limited is withing 20 dollars of an X chip.

The real reason I built AMD instead of intel this round (I build both over the years, I try to go for value) is the "FREE" ram for DDR5, which left me my "old" ram to sell in that old system (complete system).

If you don't live close to a MicroCenter (which most of don't). You are left with normal/online pricing no free ram, and it just makes zero sense from cost/value to go AMD currently.

Am I missing something? is AMD missing something? The 7900x prices are actually increasing EVERYWHERE . This CPU is not worth 500+ TAX + shipping

I know their is a lot of talk about TDP and power usage 13700k is rated at 125, 7900x is rated 170 (worse), but I do see where the 13700k pulls about 30 more watts on the CPU than the 7900x. So maybe its only people do tiny builds with limited airflow lean toward amd? AMD did beat intel in the 7zip bencmarks on the ones I found.

13600k is 125 and 7700x is 105w. (that is pretty close, I know the actuall watts they pull are more than the ratings)

The only way I see that being a good thing is using the NON X chips at 65 watt lose performance, but as soon as you enable PBO your wattage is back up. (also you get a free cooler with the non X chips, just like the non K chips)

I love competition cause I'm a PC nerd/builder, however it seems based on price/value AMD is losing this one pretty good.

No way a 7900x is worth 125 dollars MORE than a 13700k. Now to make sense the 7900 NON X would need to be under 400 at Newegg to be in competition, I'm thinking 350. (pricing is very sparse on the x chips when I search)

Now maybe your waiting on the 7700/7900x3d. However is the 7900x is 500, how much will the 7900x3d be? 600? 650?

Let me say again so I dont get flamed, I'm not per say an intel or amd fan. pros/cons. I have built many of systems with BOTH cpus over the years.

By looking at the benchmarks it seems to be fairly close so why pay so much more for the CPU/motherboard and ram over intel? Maybe that future proofing of dropping a newer CHIP is what people like, however the avg person don't even know about that, I bet many of us upgrade the whole system more often than just upgrading the CPU. (mabye i'm wrong and AMD is having every pc nerd buy up AM5 due to the future proof socket for 2-3 years.

I guess we will have to wait on the non X chips and non K chips to really get in stock and pricing to settle. Maybe that will shake things loose or be dead even.

I think the K chips are better value than the X chips as of today anyway (1.12.23)

I'm looking at this strictly at value/performance. Don't take this as an i'm intel fanboy or AMD hater. I literally just built a 7900x and 7700x systems and have had no issues, super rock solid and super fast.

maybe more people are concerned about power bills. This passmark says AMD will save you about 10 bucks a year, I guess if you keep it 5 years you saved 50 bucks. So you can count that off the price of the CPU.........math still dont' seem to work out for me

Looking forward to discussions (as I type this on my loving 7900x)

Good article here on toms:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/i...ughly tie,expands to 13.6% after overclocking.

 

[zx128k]

Was waiting on seeing what the 7900x3d chip was like. 13900KS and 13900K appear to be watt monsters. Not sure the 7950x or 7900x are worth it for games.

 

[hotaru.hino]

At this point, from a performance perspective, unless you're chasing after the bestest numbers, I don't really think it matters which processor you choose. And both AMD and Intel are now guilty of the "push the CPU to the temp limit at all costs", which eats into power, but you can set power limits on the processors to start getting to values that make sense. And if you're mostly into gaming, look at https://www.anandtech.com/show/17641/lighter-touch-cpu-power-scaling-13900k-7950x/3. While Intel loses out a significant enough performance in one game in the test on the 95th percentile, the rest of the test show that games aren't really sensitive to this type of adjustment

So I would say look at the motherboards and see which features those have that make sense to you, then go with the best processor you're willing to throw money at for that board. Although keep in mind if Intel continues its tradition, the current platform is on its last CPU generation so there's not much room for a CPU upgrade, if any.

 

[GarrettL]

For a gaming rig the 5800x3d and AM4 motherboards provide great bang for the buck. I've had a 3800x and 2070S for 1440p gaming and it's been fantastic.

The 7000 series pricing is just insane. My wifes getting the 3800x pc and will build aanother x570s and x5800x3d rig. As hotaru.hino stated, the cpu's from Intel and AMD are quite good at the moment. There is no bad choice between the two.

 

[logainofhades]

I personally wouldn't build a new AM4 rig, but I also happen to live close enough to a Microcenter, to take advantage of that free ram.

 

[GarrettL]

I personally wouldn't build a new AM4 rig, but I also happen to live close enough to a Microcenter, to take advantage of that free ram.

Would you state a few reasons why logainofhades? You always give good advice on this forum and I respect your opinion.

 

[logainofhades]

Upgrade path is the primary reason for why I wouldn't build a new AM4 rig. I like to upgrade too much, and having a platform that can take a few upgrades, is a plus, for me. AM5 provides such an opportunity, while AM4, and LGA 1700, really don't. AM5 has replaced AM4, and 14th gen is also expected to be a new socket. That free ram is a $150 kit, of ddr5 6000 Gskill is also hard to say no to. The 7700x trades blows, with the 5800x3d, in gaming, and is superior in non gaming tasks, due to higher clocks. The 5800x3d loses out in non gaming, vs even a regular 5800x, due to clock speed differences . $343 gets you a 7700x, and that free ram, plus you still get the $20 off motherboard. The 5800x3d is $329, and all you get is the motherboard discount.

 

[bill001g]

I think like many I am waiting to see the new x3d benchmarks and pricing.

My guess is the 7800x3d is going to be the best candidate based on the price of the 7900 and 7950. There also is the discussion that the 7900/7950 do not have the extra 3d memory on both chiplets.
I am going to bet it is still going to be a choice between the 13700k and the 7800x3d

What appears to have happened with the price is they moved the "x" parts back to MSRP for those people that don't know about PBO.

 

[GarrettL]

Upgrade path is the primary reason for why I wouldn't build a new AM4 rig. I like to upgrade too much, and having a platform that can take a few upgrades, is a plus, for me. AM5 provides such an opportunity, while AM4, and LGA 1700, really don't. AM5 has replaced AM4, and 14th gen is also expected to be a new socket. That free ram is a $150 kit, of ddr5 6000 Gskill is also hard to say no to. The 7700x trades blows, with the 5800x3d, in gaming, and is superior in non gaming tasks, due to higher clocks. The 5800x3d loses out in non gaming, vs even a regular 5800x, due to clock speed differences . $343 gets you a 7700x, and that free ram, plus you still get the $20 off motherboard. The 5800x3d is $329, and all you get is the motherboard discount.

Appreciate it. Yeah, the free RAM is attractive. But without that RAM deal the new AM5 is pricey stuff. My pc is for 1440p gaming and like many the non-gaming loss of the 5800x3d is irrelevant.

If I had no budget considerations I would have opted for the 7000 series. But I also want to upgrade my gpu later this year if possible. This 3800x was the first AMD rig I've had since the Phenom days and it's been fantastic. So if it ain't broke........

Not sure about how they are trying to impelent the x3d on the 7000 series and how that will impact performance. I like the idea but looking forward to seeing the results.

 

[PEnns]

Which hardware will save you money in the long run?

If the upgrade path is an important issue, then paying $100 more now (or a minimal amount), may not be so bad, when you don't need a new motherboard every 2 years, like one does with Intel chips .

Add this scenario to the equation and you have your answer. Assuming, of course, that you do care about spending money on motherboards (and coolers, etc) each time a new CPU is released.

 

[bill001g]

Which hardware will save you money in the long run?

If the upgrade path is an important issue, then paying $100 more now (or a minimal amount), may not be so bad, when you don't need a new motherboard every 2 years, like one does with Intel chips .

Add this scenario to the equation and you have your answer. Assuming, of course, that you do care about spending money on motherboards (and coolers, etc) each time a new CPU is released.

Do you actually buy a new cpu everytime they release a new one. I might upgrade a video card but by the time I need look to upgrade the CPU they have changed the motherboards anyway.

 

[alceryes]

...while AM4, and LGA 1700, really don't. AM5 has replaced AM4, and 14th gen is also expected to be a new socket.

Totally agree with you. Just wanted to point out that some leaks/rumors/speculations put the raptor lake refresh on LGA 1700 still. Whether it will qualify as a 14th gen or not depends on Intel. (they've increased generational count on these refreshes before)

 

[alceryes]

My guess is the 7800x3d is going to be the best candidate based on the price of the 7900 and 7950. There also is the discussion that the 7900/7950 do not have the extra 3d memory on both chiplets.
I am going to bet it is still going to be a choice between the 13700k and the 7800x3d

Yeah. I'm curious how Windows 10 scheduling and the Windows 11 thread director is gonna handle this. CCD that has extra 64MBs cache won't boost as high. Second CCD will boost high but no advantage of extra cache. We shall see.

 

[logainofhades]

I would suspect if they do a refresh, of raptor lake, it will be like 4th gen Haswell's refresh.

 

[GarrettL]

Yeah. I'm curious how Windows 10 scheduling and the Windows 11 thread director is gonna handle this. CCD that has extra 64MBs cache won't boost as high. Second CCD will boost high but no advantage of extra cache. We shall see.

That's what I'm curious about as well. Can't be all rainbow's and unicorns......

 

[sonofjesse]

I'm enjoying this conversation its a great time to be a NERD!!

My 7900x was 438 (now its 500 dollars at MC!!!). I guess if you don't live close to a MC, you are building INTEL lol. (not a bad thing 13th gen is solid).

I'm afraid to see the pricing on the 7800X3D 500???

I went AMD this time due to the value : (the value only works out if you live close to a MC so the majority of the USA is out of luck)

The price of a 7900x, MB, RAM was cheaper than a 13700, MB RAM (so value), cause of the FREE ram in my situation at the time of purchase.

Coming from a 3900x to this 7900x windows does feels a lot snappier and less "miro" lag.

 

[GarrettL]

If any of you are older like myself, this thread made me think of the differences we are talking about between the generations.

I recall in 2000 or so getting an Athlon PC from a computer store at a whopping 900MHz. Moore's law was insane at that time. Think back to that experince compared to the hardware we are using today. I remember as a kid watching a friend load a program on his TI pc from a cassette tape and we ate dinner while it loaded.

For home use a mid range gaming PC is amazingly fast at most tasks.

I wouldn't be able to tell what cpu of those listed in this thread when playing a game at 1440p. They all would perform quite well.

 

[GarrettL]

I'm enjoying this conversation its a great time to be a NERD!!

My 7900x was 438 (now its 500 dollars at MC!!!). I guess if you don't live close to a MC, you are building INTEL lol. (not a bad thing 13th gen is solid).

I'm afraid to see the pricing on the 7800X3D 500???

I went AMD this time due to the value : (the value only works out if you live close to a MC so the majority of the USA is out of luck)

The price of a 7900x, MB, RAM was cheaper than a 13700, MB RAM (so value), cause of the FREE ram in my situation at the time of purchase.

Coming from a 3900x to this 7900x windows does feels a lot snappier and less "miro" lag.

Mee too.

You did not make a mistake getting the AM5 platform. You'll likely be able to upgrade in a few years, see a reasonably good performance boost and save money in the long run. 11800x3d for AM5? That would be cool.

I firmly believe that AMD's customer base greatly appreciates the ability to upgrade the cpu on aging platforms, and AMD is aware of this fact. While AM4 may have been around just a tad too long I hope the AM5 has a good run as well.

With higher reolutions the gpu has become quite dominant factors as the hardware and software have matured and evolved over the years. And the ever climbing rate of gpu prices is becoming a serious pain in the wallet.

I remember playing pc games twenty years ago. But damn they look so sweet today!

 

[alceryes]

I'm enjoying this conversation its a great time to be a NERD!!

My 7900x was 438 (now its 500 dollars at MC!!!). I guess if you don't live close to a MC, you are building INTEL lol. (not a bad thing 13th gen is solid).

I'm afraid to see the pricing on the 7800X3D 500???

I went AMD this time due to the value : (the value only works out if you live close to a MC so the majority of the USA is out of luck)

The price of a 7900x, MB, RAM was cheaper than a 13700, MB RAM (so value), cause of the FREE ram in my situation at the time of purchase.

Coming from a 3900x to this 7900x windows does feels a lot snappier and less "miro" lag.

Hey @sonofjesse, care to be involved in a little Ryzen 7000 experiment? I found some interesting results regarding my 7950X and limiting power via BIOS -
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/am5-7950x-build-first-impressions.3792176/post-22905619

What's your set up? Cooling? Overclocking motherboard?
Basically I'd like to see if limiting the PPT causes the same change in load characteristics across multiple CCDs on other 7900/7950 CPUs, like it seems to do on mine. Without a limit, my system seems to like loading up individual cores at faster MHz speeds. With the PPT limit in place it seems to spread out the workload over more cores (across both CCDs) at lower MHz speeds.

 

[alceryes]

I recall in 2000 or so getting an Athlon PC from a computer store at a whopping 900MHz. Moore's law was insane at that time. Think back to that experince compared to the hardware we are using today. I remember as a kid watching a friend load a program on his TI pc from a cassette tape and we ate dinner while it loaded.

The tape deck on my Commodore 64 was as slow as molasses. Not eating a whole dinner slow, but it took a while.
Once I got my 1541 floppy disk drive I was in Heaven!

 

[sonofjesse]

@alceryes

I just built a 7900x and a 7700x. I might be limiting myself but I'm old school and stick with Air-cooling DeepcoolAK620 in both builds.

I have 7 140mm FANS and 3 120MM fans in my 7900x build. (not counting the two fans on the deep cool and the power supply fan)

Stock MB settings on a B650-E-F Strix, with PBO set to auto. (welcome to send me a PM if you want to discuss anything).

For example when I do "bench/stress" CPU in CPU-Z, my it seems most cores went to 5.5 but two cores were stuck at 3.1 for that quick test it looked like.

Commodore 64 was a little slower lol.

 

[GarrettL]

The tape deck on my Commodore 64 was as slow as molasses. Not eating a whole dinner slow, but it took a while.
Once I got my 1541 floppy disk drive I was in Heaven!

That's what he had!

 

[randyh121]

AMD have a much much higher fail rate so go with Intel

 

[sonofjesse]

AMD have a much much higher fail rate so go with Intel

Very interested in that statement, are you talking in general or just AM5? Links to articles?

I have had many of AMD and intel builds and actually never had a CPU just DIE on me ever.

 

[randyh121]

Very interested in that statement, are you talking in general or just AM5?

I have had many of AMD and intel builds and actually never had a CPU just DIE on me ever.

I'm talking about AMD CPU's in general.
worked at a computer repair shop for 2 years, every single CPU that came in that was dead was an AMD CPU. Mostly AM4 since that was popular at the time.
Intel is much more reliable if you want something to last a long time and never break from my experience