News Intel's 1nm-class fabs in Germany delayed by too much black soil and EU subsidy approval

[Admin]

The fabs could still come online on time, if Intel is quick, but a delay is still a delay.

Intel's 1nm-class fabs in Germany delayed by too much black soil and EU subsidy approval : Read more

 

[Notton]

I find it puzzling that Germany would go through the trouble of relocating very fertile soil, instead of relocating the fab.

 

[TerryLaze]

I find it puzzling that Germany would go through the trouble of relocating very fertile soil, instead of relocating the fab.

You can't put a FAB (or any industrial structure) just anywhere and any place that isn't already build upon will have fertile soil, unless you build in a quarry but that's a very bad place to build anything.

 

[PEnns]

Those krazy Germans, they care about fertile soil.....tsk tsk....

 

[bit_user]

Those krazy Germans, they care about fertile soil.....tsk tsk....

Topsoil takes a long time to regenerate. They're smart to manage what they have.

In the US, we had a huge wakeup call for the need to conserve topsoil in the 1930's, but a lot of those practices have started to fall by the wayside. Intensive farming methods also deplete it faster than it can be replaced.

 

[DS426]

Topsoil takes a long time to regenerate. They're smart to manage what they have.

...

So does fossil fuel, which takes far longer. 180,000 truckloads of diesel, plus the diesel to power the excavators and bulldozers... I'm pretty sure we can generate fertile soil more efficiently.

If I was Intel, I would just cancel. Intel (of course we should say IFS now) has had way too many years of delays on nodes to continue putting stakeholders and customers thru this. The funds haven't been approved, so I say take it elsewhere.

Also great that taxpayers are on the hook for these mega corps. nVidia and Apple are stupidly wealthy now -- charge them a bigger premium for being on the most advanced nodes. It's these extra costs like Germany introduces on why TSMC has to charge a premium for customers to chose where chips are made if outside Taiwan. Yeah, we need a more diverse supply chain, BIG TIME, but as others have said, maybe this isn't the best site for this new fab (even if just somewhere else in Germany, and agreed, there's a lot that goes into deciding where these huge fabs are built, sometimes even proximity to power plants).

 

[bit_user]

180,000 truckloads of diesel, plus the diesel to power the excavators and bulldozers... I'm pretty sure we can generate fertile soil more efficiently.

It's not my area of expertise, but I doubt it. Fertilizer is very energy-intensive to create and you can't make good quality topsoil just by adding fertilizer.

nVidia and Apple are stupidly wealthy now -- charge them a bigger premium for being on the most advanced nodes.

They have to charge an amount that's competitive with both other fabs and the value provided over their prior nodes.

 

[TerryLaze]

So does fossil fuel, which takes far longer. 180,000 truckloads of diesel, plus the diesel to power the excavators and bulldozers... I'm pretty sure we can generate fertile soil more efficiently.

Em truck fuel-tank fulls are nowhere near truckloads...

If I was Intel, I would just cancel. Intel (of course we should say IFS now) has had way too many years of delays on nodes to continue putting stakeholders and customers thru this.

Stakeholders see their stakes grow larger for all those years of delays, if you would ask a stakeholder they would tell you to delay as much as possible since it does increase their stakes...

Also great that taxpayers are on the hook for these mega corps.

Yeah because these mega corps exist in their own pocket dimension, it's not like they are going to be paying like 3-4 different taxes and employ a bunch of people. directly as well as indirectly, people that will also pay several taxes.
A mega corp generates a lot of money for the country they are in.

 

[Catpawzzz]

"which caused Germany's Finance Minister Michael Richter to intervene and ensure Intel got what it needed"
That is not Germany's finance minister, but the state level finance minister (the state of Sachsen-Anhalt).

 

[PEnns]

Topsoil takes a long time to regenerate. They're smart to manage what they have.

In the US, we had a huge wakeup call for the need to conserve topsoil in the 1930's, but a lot of those practices have started to fall by the wayside. Intensive farming methods also deplete it faster than it can be replaced.

I neglected the put the universal sign of sarcasm in my post.

Of course they should care about their fertile soil!! Unlike other countries that would just bulldoze over anything of value for Intel or whoever.

 

[Co BIY]

I seriously doubt that moving 40cm of topsoil is much of an obstacle. I watched a recent developement in Colorado dig down a hill that in many places would be considered a mountain just to remove a troublesome clay layer. They then evenly mixed that layer into the remaining fill and then essentially replaced the material back into a hill shape prior to building houses on it. It did not take very long.

Trying to build a multi-billion dollar plant without the billions. That's a tougher nut.

 

[sjkpublic]

You can't put a FAB (or any industrial structure) just anywhere and any place that isn't already build upon will have fertile soil, unless you build in a quarry but that's a very bad place to build anything.

Huh?

 

[sjkpublic]

Silly people - fertile soil. Really? The factory sits only on a few square miles of land. The issue is not fertile soil. Its fertile kickback. I am hoping politicians in the US realize the importance of a fab. And they move it from the EU to the US.

 

[JTWrenn]

So does fossil fuel, which takes far longer. 180,000 truckloads of diesel, plus the diesel to power the excavators and bulldozers... I'm pretty sure we can generate fertile soil more efficiently.

If I was Intel, I would just cancel. Intel (of course we should say IFS now) has had way too many years of delays on nodes to continue putting stakeholders and customers thru this. The funds haven't been approved, so I say take it elsewhere.

Also great that taxpayers are on the hook for these mega corps. nVidia and Apple are stupidly wealthy now -- charge them a bigger premium for being on the most advanced nodes. It's these extra costs like Germany introduces on why TSMC has to charge a premium for customers to chose where chips are made if outside Taiwan. Yeah, we need a more diverse supply chain, BIG TIME, but as others have said, maybe this isn't the best site for this new fab (even if just somewhere else in Germany, and agreed, there's a lot that goes into deciding where these huge fabs are built, sometimes even proximity to power plants).

Think it is 80k truckloads worth of dirt, and I doubt it takes more than or even an equal amount of diesel to move dirt. That would likely make any digging project a wee bit ridiculous. Maybe you meant 80k trucks filled with diesel? I don't think that tracks either as I doubt they need to refill after every truckload.

Top soil takes hundreds of years to form just 3 centimeters (estimates are all over the place from 100 to 1000 years). In 100 years I doubt we will be using oil to make diesel for trucks....pretty sure we will still be eating vegetables and fruits though so I say it's worth it. I do hope they use as many alternate power vehicles as possible though. I guess Volvo has quite a few all electric construction vehicles now so hope they do that a bit. So hopefully the environmental impact of saving the soil isn't too bad.

 

[sjkpublic]

Intel seems to have a long list of failures. A few years ago they went and decided to build either a fab or something in Israel. That may be toast. And now a situation develops in Germany over top soil? It aint about top soil. Its about being paid. I hope Intel does the smart thing and find a place in the US and build the Fab there. But then, Intel has made so many bad mistakes I doubt that will happen. Intel is the new HP.

 

[Nyara]

Silly people - fertile soil. Really? The factory sits only on a few square miles of land. The issue is not fertile soil. Its fertile kickback. I am hoping politicians in the US realize the importance of a fab. And they move it from the EU to the US.

The US already fully state financing another similar plant in US soil. The millitary also financing Intel in an extra plant separately, too. There is also expansions in Israel and Costa Rica plants. There is a huge investment crunch going right now, and everyone are uncertain if Intel can deliver, in the short-term Intel just has their Intel 7 (Alder/Raptor Lake) to sell in meaningful amounts, which SMIC can already spam produce for near free, and an overpriced low production Intel 4 (Meteor Lake) that all the industry is ignoring.

Intel is only selling promises and it is incredible they got the amount of goverment support they have obtained, and it is exclusively for being the sole wafer producer company in the west.