News Intel's B570/B580 Battlemage and AMD Navi 44 RDNA 4 GPUs reportedly keep pace with the RTX 4060 Ti — AMD and Intel vie to capture the budget GPU ma...

[Admin]

Rumor has it that upcoming budget GPUs from AMD and Intel can outpace Nvidia's mid-ranged RTX 4060 Ti.

Intel's B570/B580 Battlemage and AMD Navi 44 RDNA 4 GPUs reportedly keep pace with the RTX 4060 Ti — AMD and Intel vie to capture the budget GPU ma... : Read more

 

[rluker5]

So would that put the B770 above the 4070ti?
$350-$400 for a 2 slot one of those sounds pretty nice.

 

[Gururu]

Matching rasterization is fine, but can the new cards do better RT, AI or other new stuff better?

 

[009Blastoise]

Matching rasterization is fine, but can the new cards do better RT, AI or other new stuff better?

The thing about AI is that Nvidia has captured the market right now with their CUDA framework. Even if AMD has something better, they don't have the interfacing capabilities to match. I think they are working on that though, but it will take time.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Logically, it does not make sense what AMD is doing. Okay so their Navi 44 chip can outperform a $400 4060 Ti, okay well, the 5060 will likely beat a 4060 Ti, and if Nvidia sees what AMD is doing, they will price the 5060 to a point where all of Nvidia’s proprietary value-adds will make the 5060 a no-brainer choice. AMD will have to price their Navi 44 with little to no margin to gain market share like they want.

 

[bit_user]

Logically, it does not make sense what AMD is doing. Okay so their Navi 44 chip can outperform a $400 4060 Ti, okay well, the 5060 will likely beat a 4060 Ti, and if Nvidia sees what AMD is doing, they will price the 5060 to a point where all of Nvidia’s proprietary value-adds will make the 5060 a no-brainer choice. AMD will have to price their Navi 44 with little to no margin to gain market share like they want.

You seem to be implying that Nvidia has an intrinsic cost advantage vs. AMD. Is that truly what you believe and why? If there's no intrinsic cost advantage, then AMD can price more aggressively and still have margins (though perhaps smaller) intact.

Apart from that, even if AMD's graphics business is less profitable, continuing to develop their GPUs is essential for their APUs and any intentions they have to stay in the console race or enter the phone SoC market (latest rumor).

Also, they've announced plans to re-merge their client and server graphics IP as the UDNA architecture, which will succeed RDNA4. So, another way to look at RDNA4 is simply as a bridge generation.

I'm interested in RDNA4, since it's rumored to improve mainly in the areas that held me back from buying a RDNA3 card - namely AI and ray tracing. Also, I'm not bothered by the lack of a flagship RDNA4 GPU, since I never was going to pay more than about $500ish, anyhow.

P.S. Navi 44 is their entry-level GPU. Navi 48 is the one I'd likely buy, which is probably going to be about twice as powerful. Navi 41 is the flagship GPU they cancelled. I know it can be a little hard to follow. An AMD employee once explained to me that the "ones" digits of the chip numbers simply corresponds to the order in which they were developed, not the size or performance.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

You seem to be implying that Nvidia has an intrinsic cost advantage vs. AMD. Is that truly what you believe and why? If there's no intrinsic cost advantage, then AMD can price more aggressively and still have margins (though perhaps smaller) intact.

Apart from that, even if AMD's graphics business is less profitable, continuing to develop their GPUs is essential for their APUs and any intentions they have to stay in the console race or enter the phone SoC market (latest rumor).

Also, they've announced plans to re-merge their client and server graphics IP as the UDNA architecture, which will succeed RDNA4. So, another way to look at RDNA4 is simply as a bridge generation.

I'm interested in RDNA4, since it's rumored to improve mainly in the areas that held me back from buying a RDNA3 card - namely AI and ray tracing. Also, I'm not bothered by the lack of a flagship RDNA4 GPU, since I never was going to pay more than about $500ish, anyhow.

P.S. Navi 44 is their entry-level GPU. Navi 48 is the one I'd likely buy, which is probably going to be about twice as powerful. Navi 41 is the flagship GPU they cancelled. I know it can be a little hard to follow. An AMD employee once explained to me that the "ones" digits of the chip numbers simply corresponds to the order in which they were developed, not the size or performance.

Thank you for the summation, I have been following RDNA4 in detail and agree with you in concept.

However, my argument is that Nvidia has enough money in their coffers to cover a low margin or even a loss-based counter and release direct competitors to NAVI 44 at the same price point, in which case, the majority of people would buy Nvidia for the value-add proprietary tech.

Will Nvidia do this? I don’t know, a part of me thinks all they care about is AI and don’t care if AMD gains market share. But there is a very slight and unlikely chance Jenson says to heck with business practices, Im not going to relinquish gamer market share. IE Jenson has endless F U money and may use it in irrational ways and no shareholder will care because they are getting rich.

Infinitesimally small chance but we will see.

 

[Ogotai]

but can the new cards do better RT

what if you dont care about RT, cause nothing you play uses it at all, or the difference isnt worth the performance hit ?

he majority of people would buy Nvidia for the value-add proprietary tech.

and of those dont matter to some one ? ie RT, DLSS and frame gen, then what ?

right now, most cards are still over priced, nvidia and amd, so, if amd brings out cards that are much better priced, then they have now, for better performance, guess what some will buy ? i dony see nvidia lowering there prices, if at all, as amd could... nvidia, just likes to raise them.... IE, 4090s are STILL $2500+ here.4080 super ? $1300... for some reference, a 7900XTX, starts at $1300........

 

[bit_user]

However, my argument is that Nvidia has enough money in their coffers to cover a low margin or even a loss-based counter and release direct competitors to NAVI 44 at the same price point, in which case, the majority of people would buy Nvidia for the value-add proprietary tech.

I think this would be an unprecedented move, for the company.

Also, as a de facto monopoly in the gaming GPU market, I think they'd risk getting slapped for abusing their market position to sell something at an artificially low price.

 

[P.Amini]

I think this would be an unprecedented move, for the company.

Also, as a de facto monopoly in the gaming GPU market, I think they'd risk getting slapped for abusing their market position to sell something at an artificially low price.

Plus in the current situation NVIDIA isn't very keen to sell GPUs to gamers as they can make more money by dedicating more resources including TSMC's time and capacity toward making more AI processors.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

what if you dont care about RT, cause nothing you play uses it at all, or the difference isnt worth the performance hit ?


and of those dont matter to some one ? ie RT, DLSS and frame gen, then what ?

right now, most cards are still over priced, nvidia and amd, so, if amd brings out cards that are much better priced, then they have now, for better performance, guess what some will buy ? i dony see nvidia lowering there prices, if at all, as amd could... nvidia, just likes to raise them.... IE, 4090s are STILL $2500+ here.4080 super ? $1300... for some reference, a 7900XTX, starts at $1300........

IDK where you live, but here in the US a 7900xtx has been going for $819-$900 for a while now and the $1150-$1300 4080 Super is still far outselling the 7900 XTX.

I should preface that I personally feel the same way about DLSS, frame gen, etc. as you. I also bought AMD for my current graphics card (6900xt) because I root for the underdog and AMD beat the king that generation. But with the reality of new games being so demanding (mostly due to lack of optimization) that DLSS and frame generation are required to get 60 fps, at monitor resolutions that aren’t from the turn of the millennium, even on the most powerful cards, yes Nvidia’s superior proprietary tech is a significant value-add to the majority of customers if they have to choose between similar price and performance cards.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

I think this would be an unprecedented move, for the company.

Also, as a de facto monopoly in the gaming GPU market, I think they'd risk getting slapped for abusing their market position to sell something at an artificially low price.

Yes and I used the appropriate qualifiers to reflect this sentiment.
I’m just saying, F-U money has a way of affecting markets that fall out of line with how capitalism and Anti-Trust work in the U.S.. No one in power would want to hurt the share value of a stock that the majority of Americans 401k, pensions, IRA, etc. have invested in if they want to keep their job.
I think you and I are on the same page on what is likely to happen. I’m merely pointing out a minute possible anomaly that may come true and how it may be spurred on by the leniency given to it in this particular case now that Nvidia is seen as the nation’s golden goose.
Again, a 1-in-1 million chance, but it is there. Think of this as an Actuarial report, where the actuary has to take into account every risk no matter how minute in making a determination.

 

[Eximo]

Ah, but they didn't get that money by lowering prices. They have stated that they want to compete in price/feature realm, not price/performance. Seems to be working so far. (never tried DLSS myself, haven't felt the need in the games I play)

Driving AMD out of business would be a bad move on their part. How do you have better features / better perceived value if you have no one to compare against? Along with the already mentioned monopoly issues.

 

[Ogotai]

IDK where you live, but here in the US a 7900xtx has been going for $819-$900 for a while now and the $1150-$1300 4080 Super is still far outselling the 7900 XTX.

im not in the US. so while your prices maybe " reasonable " here, they are not... what would you choose, a mortgage/rent payment, or a video card ? no one i know has bought a new video card in at least 2 years, cause of the pricing here.

But with the reality of new games being so demanding (mostly due to lack of optimization) that DLSS and frame generation are required to get 60 fps

and that is the problem.. DLSS and frame gen, are a crutch, and escape goat for the game makers, instead of coding their games properly, they have this in mind... and so does nvidia... remember the days where we didnt need to use those to things to get the performance we did... natively... IMO.. DLSS and frame gen, have made games, and hardware worse...

proprietary tech is a significant value-add to the majority of customers

maybe, but i know some, who dont care for those " value add ons " as they are not.... as i said above, they are a crutch...

 

[Eximo]

DLSS and frame gen, are a crutch, and escape goat for the game makers,

A scape goat is when you want to cover up an incident by blaming it on something else. (Refers to a ritual sacrifice of a goat to get rid of collective sins)

Doesn't really apply in this context. They are using DLSS and Frame Gen to be more cost effective (ie lazy, meet unrealistic release schedules) rather than blaming anyone.

Escape goat (Awesome band name, by the way) isn't really an idiom, but I really like this idea. There is a practice of keeping feinting goats with other animals so that predators attack/eat the less valuable animal that would make some sense.

Or I can now just yell Escape Goat! before quickly leaving a room.

 

[Ogotai]

A scape goat is when you want to cover up an incident by blaming it on something else. (Refers to a ritual sacrifice of a goat to get rid of collective sins)

Doesn't really apply in this context. They are using DLSS and Frame Gen to be more cost effective (ie lazy, meet unrealistic release schedules) rather than blaming anyone.

Escape goat (Awesome band name, by the way) isn't really an idiom, but I really like this idea. There is a practice of keeping feinting goats with other animals so that predators attack/eat the less valuable animal that would make some sense.

Or I can now just yell Escape Goat! before quickly leaving a room.

um,yea ok sure... dlss and frame gen is still an escape goat in this sense.. why code properly, when there are ways to make of for it ? your context of the phrase, has nothing to do with what i meant...

 

[Eximo]

um,yea ok sure... dlss and frame gen is still an escape goat in this sense.. why code properly, when there are ways to make of for it ? your context of the phrase, has nothing to do with what i meant...

I knew what you meant by the first half of the sentence, just informing you that the phrase you are using doesn't exist and even the proper phrase doesn't apply to what you are trying to convey.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Ah, but they didn't get that money by lowering prices. They have stated that they want to compete in price/feature realm, not price/performance. Seems to be working so far. (never tried DLSS myself, haven't felt the need in the games I play)

Driving AMD out of business would be a bad move on their part. How do you have better features / better perceived value if you have no one to compare against? Along with the already mentioned monopoly issues.

Again, that is not the point. What Nvidia did before they were worth $3+ trillion dollars is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that we do not know what Nvidia will do now with the first new consumer graphics card launch after growing in worth by 8x between the launch of the 4000 series and now. This is why I commented with my thoughts on what could happen. And I specifically said this was a near as makes no difference zero percent chance of happening. Does no one enjoy thought experiments?

Honestly, the sad reality is that the gaming market is nothing but a nuisance for Nvidia at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised if the gaming products division gets spun off into another a new company in the future. Why hassle with the BS of all the support and auxiliary services required to make graphics chips and drivers when it is pennies in profit compared to the massive AI and data center markets. Gaming is already an annoying legacy market afterthought for Nvidia now.

 

[Eximo]

Again, that is not the point. What Nvidia did before they were worth $3+ trillion dollars is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that we do not know what Nvidia will do now with the first new consumer graphics card launch after growing in worth by 8x between the launch of the 4000 series and now. This is why I commented with my thoughts on what could happen. And I specifically said this was a near as makes no difference zero percent chance of happening. Does no one enjoy thought experiments?

Honestly, the sad reality is that the gaming market is nothing but a nuisance for Nvidia at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised if the gaming products division gets spun off into another a new company in the future. Why hassle with the BS of all the support and auxiliary services required to make graphics chips and drivers when it is pennies in profit compared to the massive AI and data center markets. Gaming is already an annoying legacy market afterthought for Nvidia now.

If the idea of a thought experiment is to prompt discussion, mission accomplished?

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

If the idea of a thought experiment is to prompt discussion, mission accomplished?

That’s a start, but generally participants engage and extrapolate, not dismiss and simplify into generalities.