News Intel's Desktop Alder Lake CPUs to Use Two Types of Dies

[Admin]

Intel readies six-core Alder Lake silicon for midrange and entry level CPUs.

Intel's Desktop Alder Lake CPUs to Use Two Types of Dies : Read more

 

[salgado18]

New CPU scheduler
New programming tools
New coolers

I really hope these are as good as the trouble they bring.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

New CPU scheduler
New programming tools
New coolers

I really hope these are as good as the trouble they bring.

New PCIe 5.0 Lanes
New DDR5 RAM Interface
New Chipset to go along with CPU

 

[TerryLaze]

New CPU scheduler
New programming tools
New coolers

I really hope these are as good as the trouble they bring.

Wrong topic, except for the new cooler, this topic is about lower end alder that won't have any e cores so business as usual new gen.

And even for the cooler, since the 6core will be smaller it might be able to work with old coolers (with a new socket adaptor)

Different Coolers Required

The Alder Lake-S die with six performance cores will be considerably smaller than the Alder Lake-S die with 16 cores, and therefore its heat spot will have a different location. Therefore, engineers from MSI suggest that enthusiasts who plan to use those Alder Lake 6P CPUs will have to choose their cooling system appropriately.

 

[mwestall]

New PCIe 5.0 Lanes
New DDR5 RAM Interface
New Chipset to go along with CPU

PCIe5, no GFX on the horizon to take advantage, nor NVMe drives
DDR5 no benefits for the cost for at least year, probably more.
Chipset provides zero benefits, still crippled by too few PCIe lanes and too few native high bandwidth I/o controllers (no embedded thunderbolt, too few usb 3.2 etc..)

 

[chickenla]

So its okay for intel to glue together mismatched cores, just not symmetrical cores cuz... Reasons?

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

AMD Ryzen had their "What thermal paste application technique was best" test, now Intel will have their "What orientation of your cooler is best"...

Also...Was Intel really using TIN? Tin has 2-3x less thermal conductivity as the Indium solder AMD uses in Ryzen...

 

[larkspur]

AMD Ryzen had their "What thermal paste application technique was best" test, now Intel will have their "What orientation of your cooler is best"...

Also...Was Intel really using TIN? Tin has 2-3x less thermal conductivity as the Indium solder AMD uses in Ryzen...

Tin is almost always used as an alloy (typically with copper or lead [although lead is discouraged these days). Indium is also used almost exclusively as an alloy.
Tin (by itself) has thermal conductivity of 66.8 W/(m⋅K).
Indium has thermal conductivity of 81.8 W/(m⋅K).
Copper has thermal conductivity of 401 W/(m⋅K).

Comparing elemental tin and elemental indium doesn't tell us anything since these solders are alloys. We'd have to examine the alloy's thermal conductivity to reach any conclusions. I mean, hey, at least they are using solder TIM and not the paste they were using a few years back! 😉

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Tin is almost always used as an alloy (typically with copper or lead [although lead is discouraged these days). Indium is also used almost exclusively as an alloy.
Tin (by itself) has thermal conductivity of 66.8 W/(m⋅K).
Indium has thermal conductivity of 81.8 W/(m⋅K).
Copper has thermal conductivity of 401 W/(m⋅K).

Comparing elemental tin and elemental indium doesn't tell us anything since these solders are alloys. We'd have to examine the alloy's thermal conductivity to reach any conclusions. I mean, hey, at least they are using solder TIM and not the paste they were using a few years back! 😉

And helps when you look at the line for Indium and not Iridium...I'm so glad it's Friday...

 

[Robert I. Eachus]

New PCIe 5.0 Lanes
New DDR5 RAM Interface
New Chipset to go along with CPU

This reminds me of the Amiga Easter Egg it is easy to find online if you weren't around then. What's the problem? Security, in particular, the added covert channels in the new scheduler are going to cause huge headaches for no gain in AMD CPUs and the Alder Lake SKUs with no E-cores or all E-cores.

The short-term solution, which the government and security-conscious companies will try to do anyway is to stay with Windows 10. But Windows 11, is intended to have better security, and Microsoft is going to try to push Windows 11 onto most systems. I'll have to ask my son* what his company is going to do. Probably keep Microsoft off their VPN.

There are other marketing missteps. Ending the embargo on posting test results the same day that Alder Lake S starts shipping, only having (expensive) high-end motherboards at the launch, etc. Not everyone wants to spend well over a thousand dollars for a new motherboard, CPU, memory and cooler. Those who do will be putting their systems together themselves anyway. I think they should have started with some laptops on the same launch date. And finally, calling the E-cores efficiency cores, when they draw considerably more power than comparable AMD chips. In fact, my son's apartment building burned down--he wasn't home, and it started in the basement anyway. We put a new motherboard, AMD 5700G CPU, and DRAM in my old case. At 65 Watts--actually 63 point something when running benchmarks that stress both CPU and included GPU. I wonder how it will compare to an i9 12900 with the P-cores disabled or at idle and see how much power the E-cores draw when loaded.

It's an unfair test, but my point is that P-cores and E-cores is as far as Intel should have gone in their marketing.

* He does tech support for a large retail company spread across most of North America. When working, he is on the phone or computer, or both except for some trips where they are converting a newly acquired store or chain. The part of the job that he likes the most is fixing not really bugs but opportunities for eliminating user opportunities to mess up. That way he can close off stacks of support tickets at a time.

 

[samopa]

If only they make 8P 0E GPU-less version of it ...

 

[TerryLaze]

So its okay for intel to glue together mismatched cores, just not symmetrical cores cuz... Reasons?

Still the same single ringbus, no infinty fabric connecting the different cores, no latency issues.

 

[TerryLaze]

Security, in particular, the added covert channels in the new scheduler are going to cause huge headaches for no gain in AMD CPUs and the Alder Lake SKUs with no E-cores or all E-cores.

What are covert channels?
The way I imagine it windows would use the normal scheduler as default and whenever it sees ecores it would use an additional "profile" or whatever.
I don't see how that would affect CPUs without them.

And finally, calling the E-cores efficiency cores, when they draw considerably more power than comparable AMD chips. In fact, my son's apartment building burned down--he wasn't home, and it started in the basement anyway. We put a new motherboard, AMD 5700G CPU, and DRAM in my old case. At 65 Watts--actually 63 point something when running benchmarks that stress both CPU and included GPU. I wonder how it will compare to an i9 12900 with the P-cores disabled or at idle and see how much power the E-cores draw when loaded.

So you wonder how much power the ecores will draw but you are already sure that they will draw more than AMD...
Your 5700g has a switch in bios for the 65W one that you can toggle on or off, often you can even choose a watt level. It doesn't only use 65w because it only uses 65w but because your mobo is throttling it at 65w.
This has been the case for all CPUs, including intel ones, for years now, you can choose exactly the cut off point that you want.

You can lock alder lake to 65w and according to intel you will get the same performance as rocket lake at 250w.
(because lifting the power limit on rocket uses 250w without improving performance, and running lots of small cores at low clocks uses very little power but gives you a lot of performance)

 

[hotaru251]

question will be howwell those n 3-core cpu's compare to competition.