Intel's Future Chips: News, Rumours & Reviews

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8350rocks

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TR4 is half the cost of LGA2066
 


Half the cost... For who exactly?

Also, a bit on a tangent: I've read that Intel is giving very obvious-subtle hints/winks at Qualcomm they will sue if they go ahead with the X86 emulator in Win10 RT-Reborn. I bet Miss Lisa Su is giggling in her office reading about that.

Cheers!
 

goldstone77

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AMD’s Ryzen ThreadRipper brings in Socket TR4 and the X399 Chipset
Computex 2017: AMD out maneuvers Intel in the HEDT space…
May 31, 2017 by Thomas Ryan
"This morning I felt a little bit bad for Intel. The Core X-series chips are the most interesting thing they’ve done in the high-end desktop space since the glory days of the Skulltrail platform. It’s good to see that they are responding to competitive pressure and that they are willing to adjust their strategy as necessary. Perhaps Charlie came down a shade too hard when he declared that, “Kaby-X is not only a bad product it is a marketing disaster.” But then AMD committed offering all 64 PCI-E lanes and 4 DDR4 memory channels on every ThreadRipper SKU regardless of price, clockspeed, or core count. These Core X-series chips haven’t even been publicly announced for a full 24 hours and already its clear that AMD’s offering the better chip.
Once again Intel’s mindless up-selling strategy has given AMD a very valuable window of opportunity to exploit. Even Intel’s best Core X-Series chips will only offer 44 PCI-E lanes, 20 fewer lanes than AMD’s cheapest Ryzen ThreadRipper part. The midrange parts are where the competition will be the most fierce, but even there AMD appears set to offer more cores per dollar and more than double the 28 PCI-E lanes of six and eight core Intel parts. The comparison gets even more silly when we think about the entry-level Core X-series CPUs which are based not on server chips but rather mainstream desktop chips.

These Kabylake-X parts offer a mere 16 PCI-E lanes and dual channel memory. Worse yet they are saddled with the complex and expensive socket LGA 2066 socket and X299 chipset. Buying a one of these Kabylake-X chips in place of a standard Kabylake chip is absolutely a mistake. You’ll be paying more money for a very limited performance improvement compared to a Z270-based alternative and gaining the privilege of plunking down 2 to 10 times as much money as you paid for your initial Kabylake-X chip at some point in the future if you decide that you need moar cores.

In a weird way I still feel some empathy for Intel’s product planners. From their perspective Kabylake-X and these Skylake server parts probably are the most robust response they could organize on such a short timeline. But the two advantages their products are set to offer over AMD’s Ryzen ThreadRipper, a slight lead across the board in single threaded performance thanks to Turbo Boost 3.0, and an extra two cores more than ThreadRipper with one $2K SKU seem like a weak counter when even their best offerings can’t match the worst ThreadRipper SKU’s I/O capabilities. It’s the self-inflicted wounds that are the hardest to stomach."

This is a reflection of what many are saying about Intel's newest offering.

https://semiaccurate.com/2017/05/31/amds-ryzen-threadripper-brings-socket-tr4-x399-chipset/
 

goldstone77

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Intel announces X-Series and more without details
Computex 2017: Marketing over everything esle
May 30, 2017 by Charlie Demerjian
“During the Intel Computex keynote they introduced multiple new product lines from SSDs to form factors, high-end X-Series to the ‘next gen’ Core. It sounded good but the details given out during the show were limited to the core counts of the X-Series, 12 and 18. The rest had zero, and we mean none, of the technical detail people actually care about.
Or at least it would be if you don’t look at the next few columns. Faced with enthusiasts who might actually understand what they are buying and not just plunk down 4-digit dollars for a slower part, Intel leapt into action and kneecapped the 6 and 8-core parts. How? They castrated the PCIe lanes to 28 vs the 44 on the bigger 10-core variants. Please note that the die in Xeon form has 48 PCIe3 lanes so even the 44 is a crippling.
Intel is saying in no uncertain terms that their highest end gaming part, the X which stands for Extreme series, can’t have a full bandwidth second GPU attached unless you but a $999 part! If you think the company cares one bit about their gaming customers, this should shatter those illusions. A high-end gamer part that can only support one GPU at full bandwidth? What can I say, this is so sad it isn’t worth mocking. Please note that AMD does not artificially cripple Ryzen in any way.
But just when you think things can’t get dumber we come to the 4-core variants, Kaby lake on Socket 2066. The ‘high’ end 7740X has 4-cores and 8-threads while the lesser 7640X has only 4-threads. Yup they killed HT because, well, there isn’t a good reason other than to jack buyers. They love the enthusiasts, really, they will say so. This is one of those situations your mother taught you about, watch what they do and not what they say.
Back to the point whomever greenlighted this Kaby-X line should be fired. Why? The Socket 2066 platform has 4 channel memory and up to 44 PCIe3 lanes. Kaby-X has two memory channels and 16 PCIe3 lanes. Motherboards support both so if you buy a Socket 2066 board and plug a Kaby-X into it, half your memory slots don’t work. 28/44ths of your PCIe channels are likewise MIA which means at least one slot will be dead, likely more. This is a recipe for returns and a very annoyed channel. Even if Intel sells through OEMs they will still have customers who see empty memory slots and go out and buy an upgrade only to find it doesn’t actually work. Kaby-X is not only a bad product it is a marketing disaster. And it is more expensive than just buying a non-X Kaby part. There is no upside to this turkey.
That brings us to the big parts, the 12/14/16/18-core variants. They are not only so awesome they transcend the i7 name and force an i9 badge but the top part is now an XE! Yes the i9-7960X was all that could be contained with an X suffix, the 18-core i9-7960XE was needed to convey the awesomeness of this $1999 turkey.
The specs on these new cores are not announced but in an earlier slide Intel says 140W and 160W parts so at least we know they increased the TDP to accommodate the HCC dies. Everything else is left blank as you can see above. And they are going to be shipping months after the i7-X parts. It is almost like AMD caught Intel with their pants down when they announced the 16-core Threadripper.
That would be a cynical interpretation however, fully backed up by the last set of Intel roadmaps released which did not have the 12+ core variants on it anywhere. What you can say about them is that the 12-18 core models will be slower, more expensive, and consume more energy than the 6-10 core models. There is no reason to buy these i9 models, they will be worse than the smaller parts in every way when gaming, and AMD’s Threadripper should crush them for far less money.”

Those are some harsh words from Charlie Demerjian about intel’s newest offering.

https://semiaccurate.com/2017/05/30/intel-announces-x-series-without-details/
 

Phaaze88

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Yep. Sounds like my earlier post, but in far more detail. Kaby-X sucks, and the 'i9' blows, only the i7s in the middle of that set appear remotely appealing. But after all this, I'm still reluctant to jump with Team Red because, well... reliability. Amd is still, generally the budget option, and relative to that: "You get what you pay for.(SOMETIMES)"

I'm sure this also turns off many that CF/SLI gpus.
 

8350rocks

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AMD is absolutely reliable.

Source: Have run OC'ed AMD chips for 20+ years.
 

juanrga

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Half the cost is a wild exaggeration. Pricing is very similar.

In any case, LGA2066 pricing is completely unrelated to the point that AMD is artificially segmenting sockets to force users to purchase the more expensive platform (SP3) instead TR4.
 

juanrga

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You are right, the 7820k is i7. The i9 branding starts with the 7900x model
 

juanrga

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TIM is fine. OC potential is HUGE

https://youtu.be/kpoies2JcmI
 

YoAndy

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But they still have more bugs and problems than intel.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/246304-amd-fix-coming-fused-multiply-add-fma3-ryzen-bug

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/ryzen-amd-bios-fix-fma3-crash/

https://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-color/17/06/9578843/amds-ryzen-chips-facing-some-problems


 

goldstone77

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I'll use a quote from the same link you used. Ryzen was just released, and with all new uArch you are going to have problems. It's not uncommon. Intel had the same issue with Skylake, and that is a 6th generation processor. Using those first two links as an argument that AMD has more bugs than Intel is weak when you actually read the article and find out Intel had the same problem. The new issue in your third link will most likely be fixed by the micro code. Motherboard manufactures were saying at Computex that Ryzen is reliable now after the initial growing pains of the brand new uArch.

"The likelihood of encountering this bug in the wild is rare; I’ve personally tested applications like Prime95, which uses FMA3 instructions and executed for an hour on Ryzen with no problem. And problems with FMA3 aren’t exactly novel, either. Intel had its own issues with FMA3 code with Skylake, as we reported last year."

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/246304-amd-fix-coming-fused-multiply-add-fma3-ryzen-bug
edit: That bug was back in march, not even a month after release of Ryzen.
 

Phaaze88

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Hmm... so I should at least be capable of 4.8 with the 7820 on a good air cooler(nh-d15 for ex.), 5.0 if I win the lottery.
And if the TIM is 'fine', then why so many complaints about it? Did they run into issues with solder? I can only imagine so, since they haven't used it since 2nd gen sandy bridge. But AMD is currently using it with their new chips...
 

Gon Freecss

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HEDT processors were always soldered.

Solder hasn't been used on newer mainstream chips because the die is smaller. Soldering that small die to the IHS would cause problems in the long run because of cracks in the solder.
 

goldstone77

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I think the 7900x will be a great processor! And it does look like it will overclock similar to the 7700k! But it will cost you around $350 extra for a hardware key dongle that you plug into the motherboard to enable raid functionality. And now you are sitting at $1,349 as entry level into the HEDT market for full 44 PCI-E and raid functionality. That a huge mark up for PCI-E lanes, and full raid capability, which customers in this market could of had before for much less! So, it really isn't that big of a price drop from the $1,600+ they were charging for a 10 core CPU. They are just trying to be clever about hiding the extra cost of ownership. ThreadRipper come with full raid and 64 PCI-E lanes, without cutting off any functionality. I have a feeling ThreadRipper is going to be a huge success, because intel drew a line in the sand for HEDT users to the tune of $1,349.
 

8350rocks

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Wildly exaggerated?

Last I checked $1k was half of $2k
 

8350rocks

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You can get a 16 core threadripper for $849 (2nd from top SKU), and get to enjoy 64 lanes of PCIe 3.0.

If you think 14 cores would be enough (instead of the 10 intel gives), you can get one for around $750
 

Gon Freecss

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A speculated $350 to enable all NVME raid options. Normal RAID options are available.

 

goldstone77

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NVME only supporting Raid 0 out of the box. If you want to run RAID 1 or 10 you will have to purchase a hardware key dongle for some $99. If you want RAID 5 it's another $300. So, I was wrong $399, which brings total cost with all the bells and whistles to $1,398. Also, VROC will only support Intel NVME SSDs.... Ouch! Now that is the Intel we all know and come to love so intimately!

Watch this video start at 11:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWFzWRoVNnE


{edited by mod to remove inappropriate reference}
 

Phaaze88

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The more I watch, the more frustrated I get... and I really wanted to get my feet wet in the HEDT segment this year, even though it's not ideal for my needs.
 

8350rocks

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Go AMD then. Ryzen is a great product, and not nearly as much to buy as Intel.
 

juanrga

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That is comparing 16C CPU to 18C CPU and ignoring the cost of the rest of the platform.
 

juanrga

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Der8auer's words come to mind:

From my point of view Skylake-X is a pretty impressive CPU. We now have have a 10-core that's a lot cheaper than the Broadwell-E before and it clocks a lot higher. [...] So we had Broadwell-E before who could run like 4.3-4.4 GHz, it cost 1700€. Now we have Skylake-X which is a lot cheaper and we CAN push it to 5 GHz, so what's all this negative press about? I don't really understand it. So from my point of view this is a very impressive CPU, so we have very high single-thread performance on the 10-core and also high MT performance, which we didn't have before in a Broadwell-E
It looks as the x299 launch is putting nervous certain people.
 

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