- Jul 1, 2008
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Intel's New Factory to Make 450mm Chip Wafers
- Thread starter Marcus Yam
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[citation][nom]dEAne[/nom]22nm is very small, wonder how powerful devices at that time.[/citation]
well right now we have 45nm with 8 cores, expect 22 to have around 16, or possibly more l1,2,3 cashes or current 6 core and 12 logicals to be about half price (possibly between 1/3 and 1/2)
what i want to know is what 450mm is. is it bigger than what they are currently using
well right now we have 45nm with 8 cores, expect 22 to have around 16, or possibly more l1,2,3 cashes or current 6 core and 12 logicals to be about half price (possibly between 1/3 and 1/2)
what i want to know is what 450mm is. is it bigger than what they are currently using
agnickolov
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- Aug 10, 2006
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Current production uses 300mm wafers, so yes - it's definitely bigger, 2.25 times bigger in fact (1.5 times the diameter squared)
[citation][nom]James296[/nom]@alidan think of the 22nm chip as a piece of paper and the 450mm as a gaint roll (of paper), that the piece of paper comes fromP.S. this is just a simple way of viewing it[/citation]
i know that, but this quote here "Intel is very interested in 450mm"
meaning they aren't currently doing it, or atleast thats what it seams, what i want to know is if that means its bigger or smaller than whatever they currently use.
i know that, but this quote here "Intel is very interested in 450mm"
meaning they aren't currently doing it, or atleast thats what it seams, what i want to know is if that means its bigger or smaller than whatever they currently use.
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]i know that, but this quote here "Intel is very interested in 450mm"meaning they aren't currently doing it, or atleast thats what it seams, what i want to know is if that means its bigger or smaller than whatever they currently use.[/citation]
wow, you really have no clue, do you?
wow, you really have no clue, do you?
reconspartan
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- Oct 24, 2008
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[citation][nom]beans4you[/nom]Why not 500mm? or 600 or a thousand? lol, 22nm!? thats crazy talk[/citation]
wafer fab isn't exactly easy broha
wafer fab isn't exactly easy broha
demonhorde665
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- Jul 13, 2008
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[citation][nom]reconspartan[/nom]wafer fab isn't exactly easy broha[/citation]
nope it isnt , i';ve often thoguht of all teh complexities in modern day luxuries that would go bye bye if our civilization were to ever end , LOL i know mnorbid to think about but shit could happen , rome didn't think it would fall either but it did. any way jsut imagine trying to figure out how to make bread starting from nothing but wheat, yeah not an easy process to visulise, since today we are at least are used to having flour to begin with it we wanted to make homade bread that assuming you have a recipe to make it from just flour, throw the compelxities of having to make flour from wheat growing in a field and that spells you arn't getting dinner tonight ! . htat's jsut talking about food start talkign about redoing computer tech (which btw has been very heavily guarded secrets broken up over multiple teams of people ) and you are lookign at never geting aworking comptuer again for a very long time. any way the point of this end of the world rants , is teh simple fact that computer tech involves many specilized fields coming together to create a single cpu , ther is metallurgy involved , electricians involved, Engineering involved,jsut to name a few , i seriously doubt any one person in any of teh involved industries could make a cpu by them selves. so yeas indeed it is not an easy task nor is it as simple as saying we are gonna press on XXX wafers.
nope it isnt , i';ve often thoguht of all teh complexities in modern day luxuries that would go bye bye if our civilization were to ever end , LOL i know mnorbid to think about but shit could happen , rome didn't think it would fall either but it did. any way jsut imagine trying to figure out how to make bread starting from nothing but wheat, yeah not an easy process to visulise, since today we are at least are used to having flour to begin with it we wanted to make homade bread that assuming you have a recipe to make it from just flour, throw the compelxities of having to make flour from wheat growing in a field and that spells you arn't getting dinner tonight ! . htat's jsut talking about food start talkign about redoing computer tech (which btw has been very heavily guarded secrets broken up over multiple teams of people ) and you are lookign at never geting aworking comptuer again for a very long time. any way the point of this end of the world rants , is teh simple fact that computer tech involves many specilized fields coming together to create a single cpu , ther is metallurgy involved , electricians involved, Engineering involved,jsut to name a few , i seriously doubt any one person in any of teh involved industries could make a cpu by them selves. so yeas indeed it is not an easy task nor is it as simple as saying we are gonna press on XXX wafers.
razor512
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- Jun 16, 2007
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and prices will still be the same.
How many times have the physical shrinking promised lower prices and the average price never actually lowers, but instead they tend to get more expensive?
When they say cost savings they mean for them self and not for the customer, they will still take their massive markups.
How many times have the physical shrinking promised lower prices and the average price never actually lowers, but instead they tend to get more expensive?
When they say cost savings they mean for them self and not for the customer, they will still take their massive markups.
frostyfireball
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- Mar 31, 2010
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[citation][nom]razor512[/nom]and prices will still be the same.How many times have the physical shrinking promised lower prices and the average price never actually lowers, but instead they tend to get more expensive?When they say cost savings they mean for them self and not for the customer, they will still take their massive markups.[/citation]
For a given amount of performance, shrinking the transistors is infact lowering the prices. They are simply cramming more transistors in the same die area for more performance, then selling the chips for around the same price as the previous slower chips.
For a given amount of performance, shrinking the transistors is infact lowering the prices. They are simply cramming more transistors in the same die area for more performance, then selling the chips for around the same price as the previous slower chips.
jimmysmitty
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- Oct 5, 2007
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[citation][nom]elcentral[/nom]mm still waiting for the amd bolldozer is it comming out 2011 ? cus its pr going to be my next build.[/citation]
From what we know its just 2011. No time period. For all we know Bulldozer could come out right when Intels Ivy Bridge does (their 22nm chips) which wont bode well for AMD.
[citation][nom]r_pad[/nom]OMG cant wait. This might be what blows AMD out of the water.[/citation]
Well AMD doesn't need to catch up. Its Global Foundries that does.
But Intel is always the leader in process manufacturing and I doubt any one company will ever beat Intel. It would probably take the most of the rest of the semiconductor world to beat intel in process technology.
From what we know its just 2011. No time period. For all we know Bulldozer could come out right when Intels Ivy Bridge does (their 22nm chips) which wont bode well for AMD.
[citation][nom]r_pad[/nom]OMG cant wait. This might be what blows AMD out of the water.[/citation]
Well AMD doesn't need to catch up. Its Global Foundries that does.
But Intel is always the leader in process manufacturing and I doubt any one company will ever beat Intel. It would probably take the most of the rest of the semiconductor world to beat intel in process technology.
jkflipflop98
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- Feb 3, 2006
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[citation][nom]__-_-_-__[/nom]larger wafers also increase the chip defects A LOT, decreasing efficiency and cost. that's why wafers size is so important. not too small not too large...[/citation]
That may be true at the very beginning of a new generation, but defect densities quickly gain parity with the smaller wafer size.
That may be true at the very beginning of a new generation, but defect densities quickly gain parity with the smaller wafer size.
[citation][nom]bison88[/nom]Isn't one of the other reasons unmentioned for moving to 450mm wafers is because the increasingly high fail rate as they've shrunk chips hence lower count of chips per 300mm wafer?[/citation]
Nope. It's all about $. Intel is at the point where they are achieving 95+% yields on their wafers. That said, every new process starts out with lower yields, but as manufacturing companies learn more about it and produce more, the quality problems go away.
Nope. It's all about $. Intel is at the point where they are achieving 95+% yields on their wafers. That said, every new process starts out with lower yields, but as manufacturing companies learn more about it and produce more, the quality problems go away.
[citation][nom]razor512[/nom]and prices will still be the same.How many times have the physical shrinking promised lower prices and the average price never actually lowers, but instead they tend to get more expensive?When they say cost savings they mean for them self and not for the customer, they will still take their massive markups.[/citation]
Not exactly. They aren't pocketing the savings. They are spending it on more R&D for the next phase of improvements. They could sell cheaper but then the technology would advance at a slower rate and if it advances slow enough for the chinese to catch up...GAME OVER. The chinese can produce anything cheaper than we can once they learn how to make it.
Not exactly. They aren't pocketing the savings. They are spending it on more R&D for the next phase of improvements. They could sell cheaper but then the technology would advance at a slower rate and if it advances slow enough for the chinese to catch up...GAME OVER. The chinese can produce anything cheaper than we can once they learn how to make it.
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