interesting article on Saturn 2 and Lockheed Martin's deep..

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Archived from groups: rec.games.video.sega,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sega-saturn (More info?)

For those interested in the Saturn 2, aka Pluto (or Mercury), and also
probably unofficially known as the 'Eclipse' as well as sometimes
referred to unaffectionately as the '64X', this is the 1995 Next
Generation & EDGE article that was probably directly responsible for a
very great deal of discussions & arguements on various message boards
as well as usenet newsgroups, from 1995 to 1997-98 about exactly what
would be on the inside of Sega's sucessor to Saturn, be it an upgrade
for the existing Saturn and/or an entirely new console.


I appologize in advance for the the blurriness of these photos which I
had to take since I do not own a scanner.

so now, here's the Saturn 2 article from Next Generation magazine Nov
1995 page 12-14 (seen in EDGE a month or two prior):

http://tinypic.com/2qyhe
http://tinypic.com/2qyj8
http://tinypic.com/2qyr5
http://tinypic.com/2qyvr


.....you guys remember Nobody's Perfect aka Binary Compatible (he had
other names too)... well, he did not start the whole Lockheed Martin
Real3D Sega home console debate thing. more like, EDGE & Next
Generation magazines did.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.sega,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sega-saturn (More info?)

gigadrive@mail.com (GigaDrive) wrote in
news:a5db8efc.0408192237.475cafde@posting.google.com:

>
> ....you guys remember Nobody's Perfect aka Binary Compatible (he had
> other names too)... well, he did not start the whole Lockheed Martin
> Real3D Sega home console debate thing. more like, EDGE & Next
> Generation magazines did.

Yeah, but he alone carried on despite the fact that LM's hardware was
vastly inferior.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.sega,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sega-saturn (More info?)

"GigaDrive" <gigadrive@mail.com> wrote in message
news:a5db8efc.0408192237.475cafde@posting.google.com...
> For those interested in the Saturn 2, aka Pluto (or Mercury), and also
> probably unofficially known as the 'Eclipse' as well as sometimes
> referred to unaffectionately as the '64X', this is the 1995 Next
> Generation & EDGE article that was probably directly responsible for a
> very great deal of discussions & arguements on various message boards
> as well as usenet newsgroups, from 1995 to 1997-98 about exactly what
> would be on the inside of Sega's sucessor to Saturn, be it an upgrade
> for the existing Saturn and/or an entirely new console.
>
>
> I appologize in advance for the the blurriness of these photos which I
> had to take since I do not own a scanner.
>
> so now, here's the Saturn 2 article from Next Generation magazine Nov
> 1995 page 12-14 (seen in EDGE a month or two prior):
>
> http://tinypic.com/2qyhe
> http://tinypic.com/2qyj8
> http://tinypic.com/2qyr5
> http://tinypic.com/2qyvr
>
>
> ....you guys remember Nobody's Perfect aka Binary Compatible (he had
> other names too)... well, he did not start the whole Lockheed Martin
> Real3D Sega home console debate thing. more like, EDGE & Next
> Generation magazines did.

Yeesh, most notable in that first page is the blatant slant against the
Saturn. That had to be one of the origins of today's widely accepted yet
still unfounded rumors of the Saturn's supposed disadvantage with 3D. Most
notably their uncited claim that it was September of 1994 that saw Sega
"scramble" to update the Saturn's hardware. This would have been two months
before the Saturn's Japanese release, and I'm sorry, they would have already
started manufacturing consoles by then. The former Segabase page had
information on this, placing the solidification of the PS1 specs closer to
September of 1993 if not before, and the Saturn's between 3-6 months after
that.
The rest of the article is littered with phrases like "Sega's own
developers failed..", "Model 3 -- Sega's hugely delayed successor...", and
"it seems likely that Sega's arch-rival Namco could get a considerable head
start in the entertainment IG arena with its rumored System 23 board."
Next Gen was obviously on an agenda, just as their Daily Radar counterpart
was during the Dreamcast days.
They talk of Sega's efforts negatively almost exclusively, calling
nearly everything either "inferior" or "delayed", with no comparisons or
references to validate such claims. Namco was using slightly modified PS1
hardware in the arcades until Tekken 3 and Soul Calibur, and even that
hardware was inferior in every way to even the Model 2, much less the
"hugely delayed Model 3". Sega was on the cutting edge with the Model 2
already, Model 3 simply had no comparison until the Naomi board was released
with the Dreamcast.
Thank you for posting this Nex Gen article, it was most definitely one
of the origins of popular theory today. It's very reassuring to see that it
was obviously deliberately fabricated, with the specific goal of
discrediting Sega for their achievements in mind. I've been researching
actual in game comparisons verses popular sentiment for a few years now, and
this is a perfect example of the stark contrast between reality and what the
media actually went with.

Scott
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.sega,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sega-saturn (More info?)

"Scott H" <sheathx013@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mfoVc.19$dB6.5@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
>
> "GigaDrive" <gigadrive@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:a5db8efc.0408192237.475cafde@posting.google.com...
>> For those interested in the Saturn 2, aka Pluto (or Mercury), and also
>> probably unofficially known as the 'Eclipse' as well as sometimes
>> referred to unaffectionately as the '64X', this is the 1995 Next
>> Generation & EDGE article that was probably directly responsible for a
>> very great deal of discussions & arguements on various message boards
>> as well as usenet newsgroups, from 1995 to 1997-98 about exactly what
>> would be on the inside of Sega's sucessor to Saturn, be it an upgrade
>> for the existing Saturn and/or an entirely new console.
>>
>>
>> I appologize in advance for the the blurriness of these photos which I
>> had to take since I do not own a scanner.
>>
>> so now, here's the Saturn 2 article from Next Generation magazine Nov
>> 1995 page 12-14 (seen in EDGE a month or two prior):
>>
>> http://tinypic.com/2qyhe
>> http://tinypic.com/2qyj8
>> http://tinypic.com/2qyr5
>> http://tinypic.com/2qyvr
>>
>>
>> ....you guys remember Nobody's Perfect aka Binary Compatible (he had
>> other names too)... well, he did not start the whole Lockheed Martin
>> Real3D Sega home console debate thing. more like, EDGE & Next
>> Generation magazines did.
>
> Yeesh, most notable in that first page is the blatant slant against the
> Saturn. That had to be one of the origins of today's widely accepted yet
> still unfounded rumors of the Saturn's supposed disadvantage with 3D.
> Most
> notably their uncited claim that it was September of 1994 that saw Sega
> "scramble" to update the Saturn's hardware. This would have been two
> months
> before the Saturn's Japanese release, and I'm sorry, they would have
> already
> started manufacturing consoles by then. The former Segabase page had
> information on this, placing the solidification of the PS1 specs closer to
> September of 1993 if not before, and the Saturn's between 3-6 months after
> that.
> The rest of the article is littered with phrases like "Sega's own
> developers failed..", "Model 3 -- Sega's hugely delayed successor...", and
> "it seems likely that Sega's arch-rival Namco could get a considerable
> head
> start in the entertainment IG arena with its rumored System 23 board."
> Next Gen was obviously on an agenda, just as their Daily Radar counterpart
> was during the Dreamcast days.
> They talk of Sega's efforts negatively almost exclusively, calling
> nearly everything either "inferior" or "delayed", with no comparisons or
> references to validate such claims. Namco was using slightly modified PS1
> hardware in the arcades until Tekken 3 and Soul Calibur, and even that
> hardware was inferior in every way to even the Model 2, much less the
> "hugely delayed Model 3". Sega was on the cutting edge with the Model 2
> already, Model 3 simply had no comparison until the Naomi board was
> released
> with the Dreamcast.
> Thank you for posting this Nex Gen article, it was most definitely one
> of the origins of popular theory today. It's very reassuring to see that
> it
> was obviously deliberately fabricated, with the specific goal of
> discrediting Sega for their achievements in mind. I've been researching
> actual in game comparisons verses popular sentiment for a few years now,
> and
> this is a perfect example of the stark contrast between reality and what
> the
> media actually went with.
>
> Scott

That reminded me of several articles on Saturn games (specifically, Sega
Rally,
Virtua Fighter 2 and later, Grandia) done when the respective games came
out,
by (as far as I can recall) EGM and Gamefan that went along the lines "I
can't believe
this is running on the Saturn". Or even better, whenever some Capcom 2D
fighter
would make it's way to the PSX, and the critic would respond that if Capcom
couldn't make a proper home console version, they shouldn't make it at all.
My standard response was "They did...for the Saturn."
>
>
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.sega,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sega-saturn (More info?)

"Relic" <relic1980@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:UpzVc.1767$d82.48@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Scott H" <sheathx013@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:mfoVc.19$dB6.5@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> > Thank you for posting this Nex Gen article, it was most definitely
one
> > of the origins of popular theory today. It's very reassuring to see
that
> > it
> > was obviously deliberately fabricated, with the specific goal of
> > discrediting Sega for their achievements in mind. I've been researching
> > actual in game comparisons verses popular sentiment for a few years now,
> > and
> > this is a perfect example of the stark contrast between reality and what
> > the
> > media actually went with.
> >
> > Scott
>
> That reminded me of several articles on Saturn games (specifically, Sega
> Rally,
> Virtua Fighter 2 and later, Grandia) done when the respective games came
> out,
> by (as far as I can recall) EGM and Gamefan that went along the lines "I
> can't believe
> this is running on the Saturn". Or even better, whenever some Capcom 2D
> fighter
> would make it's way to the PSX, and the critic would respond that if
Capcom
> couldn't make a proper home console version, they shouldn't make it at
all.
> My standard response was "They did...for the Saturn."

Heheh, I remember the article you're talking about. I think it was EGM,
though it might have been Gamefan, I'm not certain. I think the gripe was
something along the lines of "Saturn shouldn't be able to do this
resolution..." in regards to VF2 in particular. The reviewer sounded so
disappointed, I couldn't figure out why at the time.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.video.sega,alt.games.video.sega-dreamcast,alt.games.video.sega-saturn (More info?)

"Scott H" <sheathx013@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:9AHVc.3849$dB6.3320@nwrddc03.gnilink.net:

>
> "Relic" <relic1980@ameritech.net> wrote in message
> news:UpzVc.1767$d82.48@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Scott H" <sheathx013@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:mfoVc.19$dB6.5@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
>> > Thank you for posting this Nex Gen article, it was most
>> > definitely
> one
>> > of the origins of popular theory today. It's very reassuring to
>> > see
> that
>> > it
>> > was obviously deliberately fabricated, with the specific goal of
>> > discrediting Sega for their achievements in mind. I've been
>> > researching actual in game comparisons verses popular sentiment for
>> > a few years now, and
>> > this is a perfect example of the stark contrast between reality and
>> > what the
>> > media actually went with.
>> >
>> > Scott
>>
>> That reminded me of several articles on Saturn games (specifically,
>> Sega Rally,
>> Virtua Fighter 2 and later, Grandia) done when the respective games
>> came out,
>> by (as far as I can recall) EGM and Gamefan that went along the lines
>> "I can't believe
>> this is running on the Saturn". Or even better, whenever some Capcom
>> 2D fighter
>> would make it's way to the PSX, and the critic would respond that if
> Capcom
>> couldn't make a proper home console version, they shouldn't make it
>> at
> all.
>> My standard response was "They did...for the Saturn."
>
> Heheh, I remember the article you're talking about. I think it
> was EGM,
> though it might have been Gamefan, I'm not certain. I think the gripe
> was something along the lines of "Saturn shouldn't be able to do this
> resolution..." in regards to VF2 in particular. The reviewer sounded
> so disappointed, I couldn't figure out why at the time.

Uh, it was Nick Row2ks or whatever his name was. Even back then, it was
pretty easy to puzzle out what his issue was.
 
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