INteresting idea....or maybe not

pickxx

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I know some people, mostly New-B's are curious about this, as i am....
Where can i find a comparison of where the the benifits are with RAM upgrades and CPU upgrades.

Example: A64 3200 with 512 of average RAM VS A64 2800 with 1GB Uber fast RAM.

What kind of CPU gap does fast RAM make up for? I have heard from some that 1GB of CAS3 RAM is better then 512mb of CAS 2 RAM.
Does 1GB of Uber-RAM compare to a 200Mhz? 300Mhz? 600Mz increase of the CPU?
I know this may not make sense because i am short bus special sometimes. But I Fail to see why people would spend $400+ for RAM thats very very fast insted of getting slightly slower RAM and put the extra 200bucks into getting a A64 3700+ insted of a 3400+. i think that transition would be more benificial.
Or am i wrong, and having SUPERfast RAM and a lower processor is better then having Average speed RAM and a higher processor?

Whichever way is faster what is the cutoff for that increase?
Does an extra 30bucks for make more of an inmpact then 30bucks for a CPU? eventually a CPU takes RAM in the long run because i dont care how fast the RAM is, a XP1700+ will always lose to a A64 FX-53. but i am talking in moderate prices like 30bucks, 50, 100, 200, 350 and whatnot.
Thanx
 

TheRod

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What kind of CPU gap does fast RAM make up for? I have heard from some that 1GB of CAS3 RAM is better then 512mb of CAS 2 RAM.
The amount of RAM influence applications performance that NEED that much ram, If you run only Word with 512 or 1024 Megs of RAM there will not be any performance improvment with more ram...

You can check AnandTech website, their memory test/comparison/review are great and extensive. It is not like comparing 2 vs 2.5 vs 3 CL timing, but it gives a good idea of ram perfromance at various speed, etc... You will even find that some DDR433/466 outperforms DDR500.

High-speed memory are meant to overclockers or people that have a ton of money to burn. Because in most situation good quality DDR400 (CL2.5) is enough.

I remember that THG made a comparison at different memory timing. And there was not significative impact, maybe 1% or 2% of difference in performance.

So very high-speed memory modules are usefull for P4 overclockers and DDR433 or DDR466 are more then enough for A64 overclocking.

--
Asus A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> (tbred @ 167x12)
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Built by ATI Radeon 8500LE 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290
 

Cybercraig

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Why be stupid? Why buy the slowest A64 CPU in the world to test fast ram on, stupid? :lol:

Abit IS7 - 2.8C @ 3.4 - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - THAT'S MORE LIKE IT!
 

pickxx

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I dont quite know how to even respond to that. I am stupid apparently. Not just once, but twice as per your post.
But i am merely asking why some people drop like 400bucks on 1GB of RAM. Isn't there a CPU upgrade that would yeild higher results?
How often is 1GB of CAS3 RAM the bottleneck in most higher systems? Not ultra top end, but higher then average.

I have a couple friends who swear that CAS 2 RAM running on a 2.8 P4(i think c, might be e though) and a A64 3000+ is the greatest thing. They mocked me when i asked why not downgrade the timings on the RAM a little and upgrade in the PCU one level or two.
So i am asking to what extent the speed of the RAM influence the speed of the overall computer as compared to the speed of the processor.

All i want to know is that if they would have gotten CAS 2.5 or even CAS3 RAM and put the money into the PCU or GPU would they have a 'faster' machine? (i say that in quoted because obviously in some programs it would be yes and in some it would be no. But i am asking in benchmarks and in generalities.)
Thanx
 

P4Man

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>All i want to know is that if they would have gotten CAS 2.
>5 or even CAS3 RAM and put the money into the PCU or GPU
>would they have a 'faster' machine?

Quite possible, but it depends on what part of the pricing scale you are buying your cpu. If you buy a fairly high end cpu (think 3700+) the price delta between "normal" and "ultra" ram may not even let you buy a higher speed grade. Otoh, if you are buying at the lower end of the scale, that same ammount of money could perhaps be the difference between a 2800+ and a 3200+ in wich case the money is obviously better spent on the cpu.

In short; I'd say more memory is more important than faster memory (at least up to 1 GB) and a faster cpu is more important than faster memory... one could also add that a faster harddisk or a better videocard matters more than CAS 2 versus 2.5, so unless all of your system is pretty high end for your purposes, there is not much point in pouring tons of money in "uber ram".

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
 

pickxx

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Thank you, now i am can taunt my friends with more confedance. I was pretty sure that unless you have a FX-53 with a X800XT PE having Cas 2 RAM is a waste. there are the smaller things you could upgrade and give better performance.
Thanx
 

Cybercraig

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The best thing to get, for future reference, is expensive PC4000, PC3500, etc. of whatever flavor. Why? Because it allows for tremendous overclocks, which if you own an A64-2800 you are bound to try, and runs very fast CAS2 at stock 200mhz speeds. You simply have more options. I passed up a chance to get new OCZ-PC3700 Gold-Vers.2 for $260.00/GB four months ago because I thought they were a little pricey. Now who's stupid?

Abit IS7 - 2.8C @ 3.4 - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - THAT'S MORE LIKE IT!
 

pickxx

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Thats kind of what i told my friends, i was like....get the faster RAM for overclocking and also PC3200 with CAS 2 is fast now but PC4000 at Cas3 would kill it and its cheeper in most cases.
Well on the upside, you may have passed on them and in about 3-4yrs people will be e-baying them and you can pick them up for a lower cost then 260....By then we should have PC8000 RAM or some insane speed.
 

old_fart

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More/faster memory or faster CPU?

It depends on what YOUR needs are.

If you were to run a performance monitor you could see if your CPU is maxed out or if you are running out of memory. Then you should have a better idea of what will be the best investment for YOU.

Set the performance monitor to show usage vs time (like a line graph) because instantaneous readings may be misleading.

For example, look at CPU (or Kernel) percentage, unused/free memory, and swapfile in use. Let it run on-screen while you do your regular stuff and look at it once in a while to see where the limitations are.







Opinions expressed are mine and do not in any way represent the opinions or positions of my employer
 

pickxx

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Yes i am aware of that for an upgrade. but i have friends who swear an A64 2800+ with Cas 2 RAM is faster then a64 3000+ or 3200+ with Cas3 RAM.
since i dont have an unlimited budget we are stuck in the relm of debating. it would be nice to set it up and test. And i would if you gave me the money to support the testing.
So we are talking in theory which would generically produce the "faster" machine.

My friends and i argue about things all the time. some are testable and some are untestable and we are stuck to theories and prinicples of life.

Some of the famous arguments include Shaq playing when Wilt did and what his stats would be, Greatest QB of all time, and my personal favorite, how much power could you squeeze out of a Dodge Viper and still have it be 100% street legal in all states. I estimate over 1500HP and a quater mile of like 8sec.
Thanx though
 

Johanthegnarler

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Here's an example for you.
Personal experience..
For awhile i played Star Wars Galaxies with the set up being:
NF7-s
2500@3200
512mb Mushkin Lvl 2 pc3500 ram
9800pro

I noticed it was choppy while gaming and i was getting pissed.. and i made a point to watch my hard drive led and realized it was going to the hard drive nearly every time i moved.
So.. i then bought 2x512 sticks of mushkin lvl2 pc3500 ram and it never touched the harddrive making it run smoothe.

As i then noticed performance in nearly all my games increased.. So in my experience as i like to experience games flawlessly, i'd never go lower than a gig anymore.

On a side note.. I have 2x512 in and 1 256 in now and it still runs dual channel.. and even better it increased write and read tests a bit. This was after many people were saying that you can't run dual channel on a nf7 with 3 sticks.

So i guess the only thing i can say is more memory is better, unless you want to reach 225 fsb on my set up. But even then if your not an enthusiast why would you care if you hit 225 fsb unstable..?

<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623" target="_new">http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623</A>
46,510 , movin on up. 48k new goal. Maybe not.. :/<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Johanthegnarler on 07/27/04 11:25 PM.</EM></FONT></P>