IPS vs TN for gaming (shooters)?

[demisor]

Hello guys,

I've read alot about TN vs IPS but i just can't find an answer! I'm still a newbie @ it though but from what i've read TN panels are about 15ms faster than an IPS panel, however, that's like 15/1000's of a second. Does THAT little time even matter while playing shooters like COD, BFBC2, BC3 and other games like GTA and race games? I'm planning to buy an AOC i2352Vh LED, which is an E-IPS if i'm correct. it has about 5ms gray-to-gray response time, what i can't find though is what colour display bit it has. TN or IPS, both panels will have 60 hz refresh time. IPS vs TN 6 bit display -> is there any difference too except angle view?

Thanks!

 

[bystander]

I'd recommend a 120hz TN panel for optimal performance. The higher refresh rate makes as big or bigger difference in the fluidity of a game. It's also not so much about making you aim faster or what not, but having that little bit less latency makes the game feel more responsive, and for about half of the US population, it also helps reduce simulator sickness.

 

[demisor]

I'd recommend a 120hz TN panel for optimal performance. The higher refresh rate makes as big or bigger difference in the fluidity of a game. It's also not so much about making you aim faster or what not, but having that little bit less latency makes the game feel more responsive, and for about half of the US population, it also helps reduce simulator sickness.

Thanks for the answer, but this answer didn't help me alot, sorry 🙁

 

[ssddx]

as far as what the aoc panel is... you will have to look it up

e-ips and tn are both 6bit panels. this means that their color accuracy should be around the same. i have heard someone on here saying that e-ips is slightly more color accurate but i havent seen any article proving it yet.

as far as response times go: what they post you have to take with a grain of salt (the size of a cinder block). often you do not know what they are comparing: grey to grey, black to black, etc. even if it is stated depending on what equipment they use the number can easily vary by 3,4,5ms perhaps more.

60hz/6fps is perfectly fine for shooter games. i used an 8bit ips panel for years (the higher end models) and now use a 60hz television. 120hz might look a bit smoother if you have higher framerates than 60 but is it really worth the horrible viewing angles and bad color shifting found on tn panels? some tn panels have a coating which helps allieviate this but are far from perfect. any ips panel offers almost 180 degree viewing without noticible color shifting.

as far as latency is concerned, most ips panels seem to be under 12-14ms now. perhaps even under 10 (you said yours was 5). my old panel had a maximum of 16ms response time (which is on the verge of being noticible but likely overstated and much less than it was recorded as which is odd for a manufacturer but good also) and it was perfectly fine.

----

in general gamers insist that a 120hz tn panel is best and come up with any number of reasons to support it. this is not the case. you need to find out which monitor is good for you and you alone. we each like what we like. personally i would never buy a tn panel unless i had to (my laptop came with one and i absolutely hate it). some people have no issues with them. if you are one of the few (i highly doubt it is 50% of the population!) who gets motion sickness from fps games then 120hz might help and i do agree with that. however, other factors may come into play as well. remember that the lag is caused by more than just your monitor.

we have..

lag from kb+m to pc, lag to process signal, lag for video card to update graphics, lag for the monitor to display the new image. all factors add up to the perception of control in a game. you move forward with a key and all this needs to happen in order for you to see motion on the screen. granted, this is in milliseconds... and normally almost rediculous to even ponder...but relevant per the discussion on motion sickness.


...hope that gives you a better understanding.

 

[demisor]

as far as what the aoc panel is... you will have to look it up

e-ips and tn are both 6bit panels. this means that their color accuracy should be around the same. i have heard someone on here saying that e-ips is slightly more color accurate but i havent seen any article proving it yet.

as far as response times go: what they post you have to take with a grain of salt (the size of a cinder block). often you do not know what they are comparing: grey to grey, black to black, etc. even if it is stated depending on what equipment they use the number can easily vary by 3,4,5ms perhaps more.

60hz/6fps is perfectly fine for shooter games. i used an 8bit ips panel for years (the higher end models) and now use a 60hz television. 120hz might look a bit smoother if you have higher framerates than 60 but is it really worth the horrible viewing angles and bad color shifting found on tn panels? some tn panels have a coating which helps allieviate this but are far from perfect. any ips panel offers almost 180 degree viewing without noticible color shifting.

as far as latency is concerned, most ips panels seem to be under 12-14ms now. perhaps even under 10 (you said yours was 5). my old panel had a maximum of 16ms response time (which is on the verge of being noticible but likely overstated and much less than it was recorded as which is odd for a manufacturer but good also) and it was perfectly fine.

----

in general gamers insist that a 120hz tn panel is best and come up with any number of reasons to support it. this is not the case. you need to find out which monitor is good for you and you alone. we each like what we like. personally i would never buy a tn panel unless i had to (my laptop came with one and i absolutely hate it). some people have no issues with them. if you are one of the few (i highly doubt it is 50% of the population!) who gets motion sickness from fps games then 120hz might help and i do agree with that. however, other factors may come into play as well. remember that the lag is caused by more than just your monitor.

we have..

lag from kb+m to pc, lag to process signal, lag for video card to update graphics, lag for the monitor to display the new image. all factors add up to the perception of control in a game. you move forward with a key and all this needs to happen in order for you to see motion on the screen. granted, this is in milliseconds... and normally almost rediculous to even ponder...but relevant per the discussion on motion sickness.


...hope that gives you a better understanding.

Yes, it was very informative! Thank you! I'm leaning more to an eIPS panel atm, more information is accepted though!

 

[bystander]

in general gamers insist that a 120hz tn panel is best and come up with any number of reasons to support it. this is not the case. you need to find out which monitor is good for you and you alone. we each like what we like. personally i would never buy a tn panel unless i had to (my laptop came with one and i absolutely hate it). some people have no issues with them. if you are one of the few (i highly doubt it is 50% of the population!) who gets motion sickness from fps games then 120hz might help and i do agree with that. however, other factors may come into play as well. remember that the lag is caused by more than just your monitor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness

In a study conducted by U.S. Army Research Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences in a report published May 1995 titled "Technical Report 1027 - Simulator Sickness in Virtual Environments", out of 742 pilot exposures from 11 military flight simulators, "approximately half of the pilots (334) reported post-effects of some kind: 250 (34%) reported that symptoms dissipated in less than 1 hour, 44 (6%) reported that symptoms lasted longer than 4 hours, and 28 (4%) reported that symptoms lasted longer than 6 hours. There were also 4 (1%) reported cases of spontaneously occurring flashbacks."

Personally, I have to say you completely blow your "TN panels are horrible" thing way out of proportion. Are they as good? No, but they are a far cry from horrible. They still look good, just not as good.

The fact that almost anyone who has both, and game with them side by side to see the difference, all come to the conclusion that 120hz is far better for gaming. It is hard for me to take that as gamers blowing it out of proportion. The fact is, I think you are the one who is blowing the IPS thing out proportion.

Those with both (I'm sorry, but that means you need to Google, as the only person on this site with both who has posted about it is JackNaylor, and he doesn't frequent this area) will tell you, game with 120hz TN, and do everything else on IPS.

 

[ssddx]

to make things short:

-334 people out of 742 is not half of the us population.
-flight sims are not fps games
-military simulators often include other elements which can cause disorientation including motion, sound, environment and mental stress.

i do agree motion sickness does exist but to blanket statement from such limited testing is not correct.

i stated that many gamers insist that 120hz tn panels are best and that this is just not true. in reality what matters is what the individual likes and not what the masses believe. some like 120hz tn panels and some prefer ips panels. just because someone does not agree with the common opinion that 120hz panels are better for fps gaming does not make them wrong.

it is my opinion that tn panels are horrible.

the benefits of 120hz (somewhat smoother video) does not outweigh the pitfall of the viewing angles (in my opinion...do i really need to say it again?) i prefer the wide viewing angles and just 60hz which to me does not look choppy at all.

i use a tn panel at work all day long, and used a ips panel at home for years which is now replaced by a lcdtv (which is only 60hz and has the same viewing angles). there is a noticible difference. granted, i can not see the benefits of 120hz side by side but this would not influence my opinion.

like what you like and believe what you want to believe.

in any case... why would you want to go out and buy two monitors for no reason?

 

[bystander]

Flight simulators share the same characteristics that FPS games do. They give you control of a plane and put you in 1st person view. This is what gives me simulator sickness. It doesn't matter if it's FPS or a simulator, just that I have control and are in first person. The mouse also makes it much more sensitive for myself at least. That fact that you just disregard it is pretty insulting. I know a ton of people who suffer this issue. A lot from my days playing WoW. Most didn't know why they suffered it, they just refused to play first person games, and most preferred to use the keyboard to turn as a result.

I also find it rather arrogant that you call all those who play with 120hz monitors, wrong, when it is their opinion. Especially those who have both. Don't you have to use both to be so sure?

I won't waste any more time on you. It's clear you have no interest in even considering you could be wrong, without experience.

I will say this for your view, if you aren't going to get a system good enough for over 75 FPS, it won't likely help much to use a 120hz TN monitor.

 

[ssddx]

@OP

Sorry for the mess in your thread. I am just trying to clarify things to avoid confusion. Whatever you do end up picking i would suggest looking at in real life so that you can judge for yourself. After all, we can only offer our "opinion".

---

@bystander

Just what are you trying to prove?
If you read my post you would realize that i merely clarified that i was stating my own opinion and also that i did not agree with your blanket statment. i never said you were wrong.

some further clarification perhaps?
----------------------------------------------------------------

"That fact that you just disregard it is pretty insulting"

"i do agree motion sickness does exist but to blanket statement from such limited testing is not correct."

"if you are one of the few (i highly doubt it is 50% of the population!) who gets motion sickness from fps games then 120hz might help and i do agree with that."

and your point is what now? i made it a point to state that i know the condition does exist and i do sympythize with those affected but i do not think (again OPINION) that your posted results are 100% accurate so i stated as much. i never attacked your condition or your person i just questioned what you stated as a blanket statement and explained my earlier statements. i dont see how you could possibly take offense.

--

"I also find it rather arrogant that you call all those who play with 120hz monitors, wrong, when it is their opinion. Especially those who have both. Don't you have to use both to be so sure?"

"i stated that many gamers insist that 120hz tn panels are best and that this is just not true. in reality what matters is what the individual likes and not what the masses believe. some like 120hz tn panels and some prefer ips panels. just because someone does not agree with the common opinion that 120hz panels are better for fps gaming does not make them wrong."

Since when did i call people with 120hz monitors wrong? I stated that the best choice is whatever the individual person wants not what everyone else wants them to get. You can not get a more truthful statement than that. what i like, what you like and what 99.9999% of everyone else likes matters for nothing to them. we can suggest what we like (and we have) but in reality the only person who can make the call is the person buying the product. buying a monitor is not like buying hardware. we know how hardware performs. everyone sees the world in a different way so our opinions on monitors can be like night and day.

--

"I won't waste any more time on you. It's clear you have no interest in even considering you could be wrong, without experience. '

i do have experience with tn and ips panels both. i have even had a chance to use a 120hz monitor on a few occassions. I never said that you were wrong and that i was right with which is a better product. again.. we all have our own opinion do i really need to keep stating that?

--

"I will say this for your view, if you aren't going to get a system good enough for over 75 FPS, it won't likely help much to use a 120hz TN monitor."

Some say that you can notice anything over 60 up to around 100 but i think this differs from person to person. I do agree that if you get around 60fps that a 120hz panel is useless. at least we can agree on something.

-------------

someone seems to be getting upset over nothing...... let it go.

 

[bystander]

I had a couple objections to your post, but I may have mistook the way you worded a couple things as well. I do agree that it is an individual thing, but it would seem most those who compare both side by side seem to support them, which kind of gives their claim some validity.

"in general gamers insist that a 120hz tn panel is best and come up with any number of reasons to support it. this is not the case."

Your complete disregard to the US army study also baffled me. It is true that other things can play a part, but that does not change that close to half of their participants had simulator sickness.

And one reason you don't hear about it that often is people with it often avoid the type of games that cause it the most, or avoid gaming all together. Although you do hear of people who just push through it until they can handle it, which is what I used to do.

 

[demisor]

I had a couple objections to your post, but I may have mistook the way you worded a couple things as well. I do agree that it is an individual thing, but it would seem most those who compare both side by side seem to support them, which kind of gives their claim some validity.

"in general gamers insist that a 120hz tn panel is best and come up with any number of reasons to support it. this is not the case."

Your complete disregard to the US army study also baffled me. It is true that other things can play a part, but that does not change that close to half of their participants had simulator sickness.

And one reason you don't hear about it that often is people with it often avoid the type of games that cause it the most, or avoid gaming all together. Although you do hear of people who just push through it until they can handle it, which is what I used to do.

sorry, that didn't really help me either :/

 

[ssddx]

@bystander

i did not completely disregard the study. i merely stated that the study is much too limited (in both number and type of participants) to make blanket statements.

i do think we finally agree.

@ demisor

as you can see it is a complete toss up. either you prefer the response time of tn or you prefer the viewing angle of ips.

i do highly suggest you go to your local electronics store and see the products firsthand. once you do you can think about the different points we made and actually see what we are talking about. then, you can judge which you like better.

if you have a microcenter near you that is the best choice as they have a huge display of monitor choices.