News IRS Now Seeks Identities of American Cryptocurrency Traders

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
The hunt is on.

Once the IRS realizes that tracking down US crypto-traders is next to impossible if they don't have an account with an US-based exchange linked directly to an US resident or bank account and limited leverage to do anything anywhere to collect crypto taxes, we'll be one step closer to an international crypto ban.

I would have preferred that crypto got banned for environmental reasons (power and e-waste) but I'll take crypto getting banned for being a pyramidal tax evasion scheme that the tax men of the world have grievances with too.
 

coolitic

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May 10, 2012
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The hunt is on.

Once the IRS realizes that tracking down US crypto-traders is next to impossible if they don't have an account with an US-based exchange linked directly to an US resident or bank account and limited leverage to do anything anywhere to collect crypto taxes, we'll be one step closer to an international crypto ban.

I would have preferred that crypto got banned for environmental reasons (power and e-waste) but I'll take crypto getting banned for being a pyramidal tax evasion scheme that the tax men of the world have grievances with too.
Thankfully, banning crypto is also impossible 😄
 

Heat_Fan89

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Someone care to explain this to me because it seems like a contradiction. I know next to nothing about Cryptocurrencies.

"Although crypto transactions are still anonymous, the process or buying or selling cryptocurrencies is not."
 

spongiemaster

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Someone care to explain this to me because it seems like a contradiction. I know next to nothing about Cryptocurrencies.

"Although crypto transactions are still anonymous, the process or buying or selling cryptocurrencies is not."
Using Bitcoin as an example. You can send and receive Bitcoin from other people and that isn't trackable. However, if you want to convert your Bitcoin to US dollars or other gov't back currency, or buy Bitcoin with them, assuming you are using a financial institution as source of those funds, then that is trackable.
 

Heat_Fan89

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Jul 13, 2020
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I've always viewed Crypto's like the Internet back in the 90's. The Gov't shied away from taxing purchases on the internet because if they did, people would not have bought and sold stuff and it would not be what it is today.

Crypto's has been allowed to grow because it hasn't hurt the economy because those involved have made computer purchases for crypto mining. Now it's hurting the economy because it's having an impact on supply that's hurting automakers and others.

Then of course people are making insane amounts of money so that always gets the governments attention. As the bumper sticker says: "Don't Steal The Government Hates Competition".
 

Phaaze88

Titan
Ambassador
This is a bloody seesaw.

Thankfully, banning crypto is also impossible 😄
If the govts can't ban it, I don't see why they then couldn't restrict it's use...
If that's money Uncle Sam can't touch, I don't think he's just going to throw in the towel...
Like that one saying, "If I can't have it, then no one can!" In this case, make it harder for people to use.

If people can only trade it...
If merchants can't use it as they please...
Then what is it?
 
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InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
Someone care to explain this to me because it seems like a contradiction. I know next to nothing about Cryptocurrencies.

"Although crypto transactions are still anonymous, the process or buying or selling cryptocurrencies is not."
You can create an infinite number of cryptographic wallets without ever registering any personal identity with them. However, if you wan to buy a Tesla with BTC or anything else, Tesla knows the crypto wallet addresses those coins came from and can link your name to them. Same with most places where you can trade crypto for cash or goods.

Your crypto wallets are only anonymous until they make contact with an entity that keeps records of who it received payments from or made a payments to. All transactions are in the block chain's public ledger and crypto can be traced backwards from there by investigators.
 
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Sep 23, 2020
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This is a bloody seesaw.


If the govts can't ban it, I don't see why they then couldn't restrict it's use...
If that's money Uncle Sam can't touch, I don't think he's just going to throw in the towel...
Like that one saying, "If I can't have it, then no one can!" In this case, make it harder for people to use.

If people can only trade it...
If merchants can't use it as they please...
Then what is it?
The gov has the biggest crypto bags of us all
 
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hotaru.hino

Respectable
Now it's hurting the economy because it's having an impact on supply that's hurting automakers and others.
The supply issue is due to the pandemic and everyone thinking that demand was going to be lower than expected. Since every major manufacturer has adopted the Lean Six Sigma approach to manufacturing, they figured they could get away with a lower purchase order for the year so as to not sit on unused stock of stuff (because stuff being stored is stuff not being used, so it's effectively tossing away money for manufacturers). Except demand was much higher than expected, and since you have to make your orders for chips well in advance, by the time the manufacturers wanted more chips, all manufacturing capacity was taken up for the next year.

Miners had little to do with this.
 

hannibal

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I am a little bit surprices that coverments are this late, but yeah… this still is ”new” thing from institutional point of view. So taxes and regulations are inevitable when this much money is moving with these transactions.
 

hotaru.hino

Respectable
I am a little bit surprices that coverments are this late, but yeah… this still is ”new” thing from institutional point of view. So taxes and regulations are inevitable when this much money is moving with these transactions.
It's not exactly new. The IRS declared "virtual currency" as taxable property in 2014.

They're just collecting on people who failed to declare they have it.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
They're just collecting on people who failed to declare they have it.
If they can find the people who own the crypto wallets.

Unless there are strict identity checks at crypto exchanges, a lot of accounts used only to swap one crypto for another will have fake or fraudulent identities. I imagine the IRS will be knocking on some number of 80yo grandmas for multi-million tax bills despite grandma not owning a computer of any description capable of being used for trading crypto.
 

dorsai

Distinguished
One thing anyone who's more than 25 years old knows for sure...the government actually owns everything you think you do and will help themselves to it any time they like. Bitcoin, US dollars, gold, silver, you name it...they own it.

Need proof ? Think you own your own home once you've paid off the mortgage ? Really now. Try NOT paying the government tax for the privledge of living in "your" house and see how that works out for you. Like everyone else in America you're really nothing but a renter on government property.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
One thing anyone who's more than 25 years old knows for sure...the government actually owns everything you think you do and will help themselves to it any time they like. Bitcoin, US dollars, gold, silver, you name it...they own it.
Physical property has to exist somewhere. The keys to crypto wallets are just bits that can be stored anywhere. Without the wallet keys, nobody can do anything with crypto wallets aside from watching the block chain for activity from a wallet hinting that a copy of keys still exists somewhere.

Seizing something is much more difficult when you have no means of knowing whether the means to access the asset still exist and no means to actually prevent people who do have copies from accessing it either. All you can do is track until you find a wallet linked to a real person. And even then, there is still some plausible deniability that the person knows anything about it.
 

hotaru.hino

Respectable
If they can find the people who own the crypto wallets.

Unless there are strict identity checks at crypto exchanges, a lot of accounts used only to swap one crypto for another will have fake or fraudulent identities. I imagine the IRS will be knocking on some number of 80yo grandmas for multi-million tax bills despite grandma not owning a computer of any description capable of being used for trading crypto.
Well as you said before:

Your crypto wallets are only anonymous until they make contact with an entity that keeps records of who it received payments from or made a payments to. All transactions are in the block chain's public ledger and crypto can be traced backwards from there by investigators.
Of course I'm pretty sure "taxable property" is only taxable once you cash out (or some certifiable valuation was done on it), because its value changes over time.
 

barryv88

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The hunt is on.

Once the IRS realizes that tracking down US crypto-traders is next to impossible if they don't have an account with an US-based exchange linked directly to an US resident or bank account and limited leverage to do anything anywhere to collect crypto taxes, we'll be one step closer to an international crypto ban.

I would have preferred that crypto got banned for environmental reasons (power and e-waste) but I'll take crypto getting banned for being a pyramidal tax evasion scheme that the tax men of the world have grievances with too.
Pure nonsense. Now you're virtue signaling environmentalism. Want change in this world? Tell CNN/NBC and the rest of the fakestream media to get outta bed with China if you really wanna see drastic change. Go look at how much plastic they dump into the oceans. Up to 30% of the world's C02 stems from China alone. It is NOT up to the world to curb CO2 in a drastic way if the true perpetrators aren't grabbed by the belt.
 

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