[SOLVED] Is 1000W and beyond such a silly thing anymore?

[bumblebee953]

10 years ago, anything over 850W (assuming the PSU itself is of good quality) was silly.

But if you're in the market for a new PSU anyway, and with the upgrade horizon of PSUs typically being about 10 years, shouldn't we be recommending triple-digit wattages?

We've already seen where things are going with the kind of power draw that 3090 has. Some have reported spikes of up to 815ish watts. Now with alleged 6Ghz oc capabilities of Zen 3, CPUs are continuing to get more powerful quicker too. I mean sure you can expect to ugprade your other components in around 5-6 years, but you're literally throwing half your money away if you upgrade your PSU in that kind of time frame. I don't think it's a stretch at all to see 850W being the new minimum in the next 5-6 years.

 

[jojesa]

You might see that trend on the top of the line offerings from these manufactures.
A low percentage of users get those components.
The average user will be just fine with a 500-650W PSU, since most of us use midrange components with a lot less power requirements.

 

[bumblebee953]

top of the line offerings from these manufactures.

What's top of the line though? Are we talking Threadripper/Titan territory? I'd say equivalents of i7/R7/3080/3090 would be what a lot of people go for. Maybe not strictly speaking midrange but a lot of people do go for them. The wattage spike was reported on a 3080 or 3090. So I would say that for most people, 650W would probably make them pretty nervous running those components. And again that's based on the needs TODAY.
I'd bet good money that 650W would be insufficient in about 5-6 years.

 

[jojesa]

Throughout the years the most popular CPUs and GPUs are midrange and below.
These past few years Intel i5 and Ryzen 5.
The same goes for GPUs.
Lets go into real statistics.
The most popular GPUs are GTX 1060, GTX 1050ti, GTX 1650 & RTX 2060.
If you check the RTX 2080 and the RTX 2070 Super, they are around 1% usage.
As you can seen, not that many users, get their hands on those components...consequently that power requirement does not apply to most users.

 

[bumblebee953]

Throughout the years the most popular CPUs and GPUs are midrange and below.
These past few years Intel i5 and Ryzen 5.
The same goes for GPUs.
Lets go into real statistics.
The most popular GPUs are GTX 1060, GTX 1050ti, GTX 1650 & RTX 2060.
If you check the RTX 2080 and the RTX 2070 Super, they are around 1% usage.
As you can seen, not that many users, get their hands on those components...consequently that power requirement does not apply to most users.

Then I suppose I should re-frame my question as, for someone that expects a performant system with i7/R7/3080/3090 and would expect that caliber for any future upgrades, 1000W PSU purchased today would be a sound choice and 850W to be the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM if said PSU is expected to live out its full life expectancy of around 10 years?

 

[jojesa]

Then I suppose I should re-frame my question as, for someone that expects a performant system with i7/R7/3080/3090 and would expect that caliber for any future upgrades, 1000W PSU purchased today would be a sound choice and 850W to be the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM...

You are right about that.

... if said PSU is expected to live out its full life expectancy of around 10 years?

Users that go with high end components seldom keep them that long...at most 5 years...and that is a stretch.

 

[bumblebee953]

Users that go with high end components seldom keep them that long...at most 5 years...and that is a stretch.

I assume you're talking about all the other components other than the PSU, which then I agree. But then you do see my point now, don't you? The PSU purchase is expected to live out its 10-year life cycle, and replacing it at any time before that because it doesn't having enough juice to keep up with the other high-end component upgrades, is a waste of money. As with any rule of purchasing, buy the very best you can afford and buy it once.
1000W really should be the new gold standard for high-end component users (again not even talking about real high-end industry users that'd go for Threadripper et al).

 

[Phaaze88]

Well, crap. I've had this psu for a little over 4 years now, and I'll be looking to replace it next year?
Geez, so much for the 10 year warranty...

 

[Math Geek]

if you want to run a 350w intel cpu and a 350w gpu, then yah more power makes sense.

for my 3700x and 1650 super, the 650w i bought is way more than i need. depends on the components. "high end" does not have to mean "power hungry". even mid-range i5's right now use a ton of power compared to equivalent amd ryzen chips

 

[NightHawkRMX]

450w for lower end. A mid range cpu like a 10400f or 3600 and a lower mid range card like a 1660 super, 1650 super, or 5500xt would be a good pairing with a 450w PSU.

550-650w for midrange would be my suggestion.
My 3600+5700 ran fine on a 550w, though that's about the upper limit.

750w minimum if you are running top of the line cpu and gpu like a 300w or more 10900k and a 350w 3090. Ideally 850w or so.

I don't see 1000w+ being useful unless you are running multi GPUs, which is not very common since few workloads truely leverage dual GPUs to their fullest.

 

[Phaaze88]

Hmm, I do remember using the Outervision psu calculator before, and it had suggested 850w for my system, but I already had the 750w unit. Oh well.
Imma roll with this psu until it actually does start giving me trouble.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Outervision tends to over estimate in my opinion.

Overestimation is good vs underestimation, but it is very very overestimated.

Your system might hit 550ish watts running prime 95 blend and furmark at the same time which is a very unrealistic workload, and even then, your unit is fine.

 

[Phaaze88]

It is what it is.
I'd rather see folks with overkill psus V cheapo units, which sadly the latter is what happens more often.

 

[Math Geek]

i'm all about value. if i saw a quality 1000w psu for the same average price as quality 550w units, then it would be a no brainer. don't need that much power, but i'd still buy it for the good price.

then i'd have to figure out how to need it once it is installed and running

 

[bumblebee953]

One thing that hasn't been pointed out is all the other stuff that draws power. Sure CPU/GPU and any oc is the big one. But the small draws from fans, RGB etc do really add up. Outervision clocked me at 861W having a 3950X (oc 5.3Ghz) with 3090 (no oc), 2 M.2 SSDs, 1 Sata SSD, 2 HDDs, 10 RGB leds (built in case RGB and added extras), RGB controller, fan controller, 7 fans.

 

[Phaaze88]

One thing that hasn't been pointed out is all the other stuff that draws power. Sure CPU/GPU and any oc is the big one. But the small draws from fans, RGB etc do really add up. Outervision clocked me at 861W having a 3950X (oc 5.3Ghz) with 3090 (no oc), 2 M.2 SSDs, 1 Sata SSD, 2 HDDs, 10 RGB leds (built in case RGB and added extras), RGB controller, fan controller, 7 fans.

True, they add up, but they are hardly a concern because of the loads they produce. You know, like the static, low power consumption of a home/office PC? It's like that with the other parts.
Potato psus can deal with that, no problem; it's a little tickle. Throw in a gaming gpu, and everything goes south, because of the frequent power spikes, and other stuff I don't fully understand.
Order of system stress from highest to lowest:
Gpu >>> cpu > everything else

 

[bumblebee953]

True, they add up, but they are hardly a concern because of the loads they produce.

Does this mean that a rated power draw of say 10Ws of 30 LEDs doesn't actually draw the full 10Ws in practice?

because of the frequent power spikes, and other stuff I don't fully understand.

See this is what worries me. Outervision will have a +50W recommended total wattage, possibly to deal with this type of scenario. But if you're right on the verge of the total wattage, that doesn't leave all that much buffer room. I don't exactly know what happens if a GPU power spikes beyond the total wattage provided by the PSU. Does it crash?

 

[Zerk2012]

One thing that hasn't been pointed out is all the other stuff that draws power. Sure CPU/GPU and any oc is the big one. But the small draws from fans, RGB etc do really add up. Outervision clocked me at 861W having a 3950X (oc 5.3Ghz) with 3090 (no oc), 2 M.2 SSDs, 1 Sata SSD, 2 HDDs, 10 RGB leds (built in case RGB and added extras), RGB controller, fan controller, 7 fans.

Why did you even put in 5.3 for the overclock?

https://hothardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-9-3950-5ghz-ln2-overclock-16-cores

 

[Phaaze88]

Does this mean that a rated power draw of say 10Ws of 30 LEDs doesn't actually draw the full 10Ws in practice?

Theoretically, yes. But it's still a far cry compared to gpus.
...
Are you familiar with Navi the fairy from the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time? Imagine the gpu as her, and you're the psu...
Then take Midna from Twilight Princess in place of the LEDs...

See this is what worries me. Outervision will have a +50W recommended total wattage, possibly to deal with this type of scenario.

Outervision is also out to help sponsored companies make more money, so don't take its suggestions as absolute; use it as a reference and make your own judgement.
I haven't run it in a while, but decided to check it out of curiosity, and this thing had the nerve to suggest me a Thermaltake Smart...
How the mighty have fallen...

But if you're right on the verge of the total wattage, that doesn't leave all that much buffer room.

This is flawed. You would've had to look up power consumption for all your hardware, and then get the psu of the exact wattage after you've tallied it up, and even then...
A system total draw of 500w isn't going to constantly run at 500w.

I don't exactly know what happens if a GPU power spikes beyond the total wattage provided by the PSU. Does it crash?

Get off wattage for a moment and look for internal component quality instead.
The capacitors and other parts inside are what have to deal with those crazy power spikes.
It's why it's entirely possible for a GOOD 500 or 550w psu - even though there's a 650w official recommendation - to run with a 2080Ti and a garbage 700 or 800w can still struggle with it.

 

[sizzling]

What's top of the line though? Are we talking Threadripper/Titan territory? I'd say equivalents of i7/R7/3080/3090 would be what a lot of people go for. Maybe not strictly speaking midrange but a lot of people do go for them. The wattage spike was reported on a 3080 or 3090. So I would say that for most people, 650W would probably make them pretty nervous running those components. And again that's based on the needs TODAY.
I'd bet good money that 650W would be insufficient in about 5-6 years.

Power requirements had been declining over the last decade, it’s only the last couple of years we have seen CPU’s and GPU’s go up again on average. The EU I have read are pushing to bring down power requirements for home computing so I wonder if this will have an impact, they have already restricted other appliances.

I also question those power figures. For a 3080 NVidia said a 750w when running a 10900k. I’ve had zero issues running a 3700X (PBO on) and 3080 on a Platinum 650w. Under stress testing I’ve seen it peak at 546w at the wall and during gaming it stays under 450w and I have checked the gpu is fully utilised. If NVidia say 750w is enough for a cpu that can peak 130+ watts higher than the 3700x I don’t see a problem.

 

[bumblebee953]

Why did you even put in 5.3 for the overclock?

https://hothardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-9-3950-5ghz-ln2-overclock-16-cores

I wanted to somewhat accomodate for the rumored much higher oc capabilities of 5950X