[SOLVED] Is an 8 year old build worth upgrading ?

[sherhi]

Hello, I would like to ask this community if my 8 years old build is worth upgrading. It was made by my friend for studying/PhD database work/gaming of course. Now my studies&PhD are done and gaming is starting to struggle with this build.

Core i7-4790K 4 GHz Quad-Core
Asus MAXIMUS VII HERO ATX LGA1150
Kingston 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR3-2133
Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB 2.5" SSD
Asus GeForce GTX 760 2 GB DirectCU II

I am looking for an upgrade of this if it's worth it - GPU would be my first candidate but I don't know which to choose to not spend hundreds of euros (the more it goes towards 1000€ the better it is to build new PC I guess) and I also don't want to overkill it. Is there any upgrade that would prolong this build? I play MMOs like ESO or WoW, Witcher 3, Civ6 etc and I just keep lowering settings more and more :/

 

[Darkbreeze]

Your CPU is pretty outdated by now, so that will definitely affect frame rates if you are looking for very high FPS, but your 4790k SHOULD still be capable enough of something around 60fps if that is all you are looking for, with a better graphics card.

Any mid tier graphics card from the last two generations, whether AMD or Nvidia, should offer a significant improvement over your 760. What country are you actually in and how much are you willing to throw at a graphics card? Keep in mind, upgrading the graphics card is about the only upgrade that won't be a loss no matter what else you do since if you build or buy a new system it can be moved to that system.

 

[falcon291]

Upgrade to what?

You can use your case, PSU and SSD. I don't recommend using PSU (it is already old) and new cases are better for airflow, and only SSD can be usable as a second drive.

And your GPU is not enough for any AAA title released in the last 4 years.

You don't have anything to upgrade, sell it for any price (that won't be high) and build a new computer. I don't know your budget, but I am sorry but it is like that.

 

[sherhi]

Your CPU is pretty outdated by now, so that will definitely affect frame rates if you are looking for very high FPS, but your 4790k SHOULD still be capable enough of something around 60fps if that is all you are looking for, with a better graphics card.

Any mid tier graphics card from the last two generations, whether AMD or Nvidia, should offer a significant improvement over your 760. What country are you actually in and how much are you willing to throw at a graphics card? Keep in mind, upgrading the graphics card is about the only upgrade that won't be a loss no matter what else you do since if you build or buy a new system it can be moved to that system.

I am from Slovakia (EU), budget depends on whether its worth it, I have not realized I could use graphics card in new build (silly me), but the question is if some 500€ graphics card would be usable in this build and If I build new PC in a year or two will that graphics card still be solid?

Upgrade to what?

You can use your case, PSU and SSD. I don't recommend using PSU (it is already old) and new cases are better for airflow, and only SSD can be usable as a second drive.

And your GPU is not enough for any AAA title released in the last 4 years.

You don't have anything to upgrade, sell it for any price (that won't be high) and build a new computer. I don't know your budget, but I am sorry but it is like that.

Well I was looking at Cyberpunk 2077 which does require a new PC so you may be right except my case which is from 2004 and has some duct tapes over it

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, pretty much any graphics card on the market will work fine with your current machine, although, you WILL still be somewhat hampered by the fact that you have an older, slower CPU and memory, since it's like 8 years old.

But, unless you are trying to get 120+ FPS out of your CPU on very demanding games, it might not matter all THAT much, so long as you have a good graphics card. You'll still be limited, but gaming WILL improve AND more importantly, you will almost certainly be able to turn some of your quality settings back up with a newer, better graphics card AND you will be able to move that graphics card to any new system you get so it does not become a waste of money no matter what happens. Of course, that all depends on WHAT graphics card you get and I can tell you for sure that you will see a HUGE difference in graphics performance going with something like the RTX 3060 compared to your current GTX 760. In some areas, possibly as high as 200-300% better, but in any case, MUCH better no matter what the numbers look like.

PCPartPicker Part List

Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 3060 12 GB XC BLACK GAMING Video Card (€519.90 @ Alza)
Total: €519.90
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-05-29 00:23 CEST+0200

 

[Darkbreeze]

I don't recommend using PSU (it is already old) and new cases are better for airflow, and only SSD can be usable as a second drive.

You can't possibly know that, since they didn't list a PSU model or make any mention of how old it is. You're making assumptions based on, nothing. Not a good idea when trying to make recommendations to people about to spend real money.

You don't have anything to upgrade, sell it for any price (that won't be high) and build a new computer. I don't know your budget, but I am sorry but it is like that.

Actually, it's NOT "like that" at all. Especially in regions like Slovakia where hardware can be EXTREMELY hard to find, and very expensive. In area like this where hardware is not as readily available there are still a lot of people running much older FX and 2nd or 3rd Gen Intel processors, so a 5th Gen Haswell refresh isn't all that terrible to be honest. Do they need a much newer platform if they want to see a significant increase in frame rates and much smoother gameplay? Of course they do, especially if they are playing very demanding games, but EVEN SO, I would STILL recommend that they get a graphics card FIRST and see how that does because for some people it might do well enough and if it doesn't THEN they can worry about getting a new motherboard, CPU and memory.

With what they have now, they should be able to use the same case, case fans, maybe CPU cooler, maybe PSU, depending on what PSU they have and how old it is. But to just say "you need to do this" without even knowing what they have, is asinine.

 

[Why_Me]

https://www.alza.sk/gigabyte-b660m-gaming-x-ddr4-d6966814.htm
GIGABYTE B660M GAMING X DDR4 €127,90

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B660M-GAMING-X-DDR4-rev-10#kf

https://www.alza.sk/intel-core-i5-12400f-d6939807.htm
Intel Core i5-12400F €182,90

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...2400f-processor-18m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html

https://www.alza.sk/corsair-16gb-kit-ddr4-3200-mhz-cl16-vengeance-lpx-cierna-d5814655.htm
Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200MHz 16GB (2x8GB) CL16 €62,90

Total: €373,90

 

[JeffreyP55]

Hello, I would like to ask this community if my 8 years old build is worth upgrading. It was made by my friend for studying/PhD database work/gaming of course. Now my studies&PhD are done and gaming is starting to struggle with this build.

Core i7-4790K 4 GHz Quad-Core
Asus MAXIMUS VII HERO ATX LGA1150
Kingston 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR3-2133
Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB 2.5" SSD
Asus GeForce GTX 760 2 GB DirectCU II

I am looking for an upgrade of this if it's worth it - GPU would be my first candidate but I don't know which to choose to not spend hundreds of euros (the more it goes towards 1000€ the better it is to build new PC I guess) and I also don't want to overkill it. Is there any upgrade that would prolong this build? I play MMOs like ESO or WoW, Witcher 3, Civ6 etc and I just keep lowering settings more and more :/

I have a PC that has a 4th gen 4790k Gigabyte MB. 1080ti. The 1080ti is overkilll for the setup. CPU is the bottleneck. You will never be able to upgrade the OS past Win10. 4th gen i7's and the lack of TPM2.0. BIOS equipt motherboard. i7 gen5 I believe was the first. I have a newer rig which makes the 4790k more of a media machine.

 

[Karadjgne]

I have a PC that has a 4th gen 4790k Gigabyte MB. 1080ti. The 1080ti is overkilll for the setup. CPU is the bottleneck. You will never be able to upgrade the OS past Win10. 4th gen i7's and the lack of TPM2.0. BIOS equipt motherboard. i7 gen5 I believe was the first. I have a newer rig which makes the 4790k more of a media machine.

The only 2 parts of that whole oration that are correct is 'I have a PC that has a 4th gen 4790k Gigabyte MB. 1080ti.' and ' I have a newer rig which makes the 4790k more of a media machine.'

1080ti is in no way overkill for a 4790k. It's almost a requirement for 144Hz+ gaming at higher detail settings in many games or 60Hz+ at 1440p.

Cpu cannot ever be a bottleneck. The cpu is responsible for creating the frames, the fps, so you get what you get, the cpu isn't holding back anything. It's not going to 'slow down' the gpu at all since the gpu should not be running at 100% utilization to begin with and 10% or 99% utilization is all the same to the gpu. And that will change on a game by game basis.

All 8th gen or later cpus are what's officially supported for TPM 2 use. Win11 only requires TPM during a cpu check at clean install, there's ways around that, you don't actually need TPM2 to run Win11 since Win11 is nothing more than Win10 with a few minor changes to the visual layout and a couple of menu items.

How to Install Windows 11 on Unsupported CPUs [Simple Tips]

If you want to install Windows 11 on unsupported CPU, you have to modify your registry or use other solutions from this simple guide.

windowsreport.com

Op could run Win11 on a 4th gen cpu, no issues. The work arounds are approved by Microsoft. As long as there's a Windows OS present, it will work.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Why does it seem like I am the only person who consistently doesn't tell people that "you MUST get the latest CPU and GPU" or else you cannot play any games? Fracking ridiculous.

 

[Colif]

I have a PC that has a 4th gen 4790k Gigabyte MB. 1080ti. The 1080ti is overkilll for the setup. CPU is the bottleneck. You will never be able to upgrade the OS past Win10. 4th gen i7's and the lack of TPM2.0. BIOS equipt motherboard.

The differences between 10 & 11 are mostly on surface, you not missing out on anything not being able to get it. Its not like 10 explodes as soon as it stops being supported.

I have a 4690k (spare PC), I wouldn't bother putting 11 on it even if i could. Support doesn't mean anything to me. Not like I am going to contact Microsoft for help.

I think a GPU would be a good upgrade for the PC.

I can't comment on your question DB as I rarely comment on builds, too many people think they are right.

 

[JeffreyP55]

The differences between 10 & 11 are mostly on surface, you not missing out on anything not being able to get it. Its not like 10 explodes as soon as it stops being supported.

I have a 4690k (spare PC), I wouldn't bother putting 11 on it even if i could. Support doesn't mean anything to me. Not like I am going to contact Microsoft for help.

I think a GPU would be a good upgrade for the PC.

I can't comment on your question DB as I rarely comment on builds, too many people think they are right.

Big difference is EOL windows 10 is 5 years.
I post some things from personal experience which goes back to 80 column keypunch machines.

 

[USAFRet]

Big difference is EOL windows 10 is 5 years.
I post some things from personal experience which goes back to 80 column keypunch machines.

Win 10 falls off support in Oct 2025.
That is no reason to change hardware now, just for Win 11.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Win 10 falls off support in Oct 2025.
That is no reason to change hardware now, just for Win 11.

Just saying you do not have many options using windows 10. My 4790k machine will run 10 until death or loaded with Linux. Have time to think about it.
Missed it by 1 gen. still the 4790k is a great CPU.

 

[Colif]

Win 7 EOL was Jan 14 2020, still see plenty of people using it. EOL doesn't mean win 10 will just stop working. I doubt win 10 get anything apart from bug fixes for the next few years.
After that, I guess Defender support is tied to OS? So might have to use a 3rd part AV.
Not a massive change, no more patches breaking windows. Might be a good thing. If anything really crazy is found, they will patch it even after EOL - they have done same for XP and its a dinosaur now.

 

[JeffreyP55]

The only 2 parts of that whole oration that are correct is 'I have a PC that has a 4th gen 4790k Gigabyte MB. 1080ti.' and ' I have a newer rig which makes the 4790k more of a media machine.'

1080ti is in no way overkill for a 4790k. It's almost a requirement for 144Hz+ gaming at higher detail settings in many games or 60Hz+ at 1440p.

Cpu cannot ever be a bottleneck. The cpu is responsible for creating the frames, the fps, so you get what you get, the cpu isn't holding back anything. It's not going to 'slow down' the gpu at all since the gpu should not be running at 100% utilization to begin with and 10% or 99% utilization is all the same to the gpu. And that will change on a game by game basis.

All 8th gen or later cpus are what's officially supported for TPM 2 use. Win11 only requires TPM during a cpu check at clean install, there's ways around that, you don't actually need TPM2 to run Win11 since Win11 is nothing more than Win10 with a few minor changes to the visual layout and a couple of menu items.

How to Install Windows 11 on Unsupported CPUs [Simple Tips]

If you want to install Windows 11 on unsupported CPU, you have to modify your registry or use other solutions from this simple guide.

windowsreport.com

Op could run Win11 on a 4th gen cpu, no issues. The work arounds are approved by Microsoft. As long as there's a Windows OS present, it will work.

Tried work arounds. Huge fail. Modifying the Registry won't's do anything if the MB BIOS doesn't supports TPM2.0. Think I read somewhere in only special cases will MS approve a non-supported rig.
I built my 4790k rig in 2014. Two upgrades all these years. a gaming 7 MB that has a M.2 Nvme slot and a 1080ti in 2017. I researched if it was worth blowing a whole 700 USD on a video card. And yes, the CPU was the bottleneck. Not a big surprise. Now I laugh! EVGA 3080ti FTW3 cost me $1300.00.
Well, what is the OP going to do?

 

[JeffreyP55]

List of TPM 2.0 with supported CPU's

https://www.nirmaltv.com/2021/06/30/list-of-processors-supported-by-windows-11/

 

[Karadjgne]

Bios doesn't need to support Tpm2 for anything other than the cpu check. There's Nothing in Win11 that does require TPM of any sort. Microsoft only threw in the supported cpu check because of pressure from both Intel and Amd to bolster sales of newer platforms and force users to replace their old systems if they wanted to run Win11. The approved 'bios hacks' do work, the only thing they do to the install procedure is bypass the TPM cpu check. That's all it does. It doesn't change anything else about the installation, if they failed for you, you did something wrong. There's plenty of other users who had total success.

EOS is a farce. It simply means Microsoft will stop doing anything about any bugs found after that date. So if someone comes along with Spectre or Meltdown that's specifically designed to attack Win7 OS using platforms, they aren't going to do anything further to prevent or repair it. Doesn't mean it can no longer be used.

Win98SE still works perfectly fine, it's probably safer than 10 or 11 with aftermarket A/V and malwarebytes at this point because nobody aims DOS based attacks anymore, everything is designed to attack NTFS platforms.

Win11 IS Win10. Same code. Same everything except for the install cpu check, the UI is slightly visually changed to look more like Apple iOS to help transition Apple users into Microsoft platforms and a couple of menu's and switches have been changed.

TPM requirements will Not be enforced by games until the user base is no longer using anything prior to 11. It'd be financial suicide to discount world wide OS use still using 7 and 10.
Which means Win12 at a minimum IF it's not based on Win10/Win11 code, since 10 and 11 are intrinsically identical, even include Alder Lake scheduling although that's disabled in Win10.

Tpm2 functionality and support was not released until 8th gen Intel. Prior to that was TPM1. Even my MSI Mpower Z77 3rd gen Intel has TPM, there's a physical socket on the board for the module.

 

[USAFRet]

Win98SE still works perfectly fine, it's probably safer than 10 or 11 with aftermarket A/V and malwarebytes at this point because nobody aims DOS based attacks anymore, everything is designed to attack NTFS platforms.

Well, except for the big factors of HTTPS and TLS versions...lol

 

[Karadjgne]

List of TPM 2.0 with supported CPU's

https://www.nirmaltv.com/2021/06/30/list-of-processors-supported-by-windows-11/

That article was written 1 year ago, even states 'once Microsoft publishes the list' which has been done since and only includes every Intel/Amd processor since 8th gen was released, so your statements of 'missed it by one gen' are incorrect for a 4th gen cpu.

 

[JeffreyP55]

That article was written 1 year ago, even states 'once Microsoft publishes the list' which has been done since and only includes every Intel/Amd processor since 8th gen was released, so your statements of 'missed it by one gen' are incorrect for a 4th gen cpu.

I posted the list so everybody including me would know which gen for are TPM 2.0 approved. Z97 motherboards are not.
You get that work around going, let me know.
Combat zone.

 

[Karadjgne]

Well, except for the big factors of HTTPS and TLS versions...lol

True, but those are extras, doesn't stop the OS from working as it should within the confines of what it's intended for. Not much different to Win10 inability to play DX9 games because it's not supported, need to add that functionality. I'm sure it's feasible to add HTTPS to Win98, but at this point, why bother.

 

[Alabalcho]

Win98SE still works perfectly fine, it's probably safer than 10 or 11 with aftermarket A/V and malwarebytes at this point because nobody aims DOS based attacks anymore, everything is designed to attack NTFS platforms.

File system format (FAT32 vs NTFS) has nothing to do with the attack vector. Why do you think every malware tries to get administrative right? So that it can write to system files and folders (protected by NTFS permissions). On FAT, it's free for all, including messing with the boot sector (Jack the Ripper, anyone?)

As for the original question - it all depends on what that system is used for. If gaming is primary usage, with current titles, then some upgrade is probably needed (I am not gamer, so I have no say on that). OTOH - I've just retired a first-gen i7 I've used for 10+ years as primary devevelopment workstation, and if it wasnt for a need for more memory, I'd be still using it.

 

[sherhi]

Thank you all for your comments. I decided to wait another year, it seems some new products are about to be released and prices of current (older) products should decrease, and I will build completely new PC then.

 

[Karadjgne]

Thank you all for your comments. I decided to wait another year, it seems some new products are about to be released and prices of current (older) products should decrease, and I will build completely new PC then.

Don't wait a whole year, it's not worth it. Everything you just said happens on a yearly basis, if it's not Intel releases, it's AMD releases or nvidia releases, over and over. Bee like that for more years than I can remember. There's always something better about to be released, and always the hope older stuff will go on sale as a result.

Better to plan out the build, everything you'll want or need to have, then watch the websites for Christmas, Black Friday, CyberMonday, Memorial Day, Christmas in July sales etc.

Then enjoy your pc while others are frantically going back and forth about whether the new releases are actually going to be worth the supposed prices.