Question Is anyone concerned about EV lifespan?

tennis2

Judicious
Sounds like EV car batteries last 8-10 years. At which point, the battery replacement cost is so high it seems very few people will pay >> the residual cost of the vehicle to replace it.

Are we destined for the majority of EVs ending up in junk yards after 10 years of use?

There's obviously diminishing returns to keeping a gas car in good working order as well, but I wouldn't say it's uncommon for gas cars to go 20 years unless the mileage/yr is super high (rust takes it toll no matter the power plant).

Seems like we're chasing this marginally more "eco-friendly" car tech that's got a pretty severe economic impact on the tail-end.
 

Eximo

Titan
Ambassador
I own an older EV. 2015 Ford Focus, also out of production. I'm not too worried, because it is a short range vehicle that I do plan on replacing at some point. I also have the resident expertise in the family to modify and replace the batteries if it came down to it. (Also the long shot of getting the battery out of a 2018 or 2019 model and going from 74mi range to 110mi range, but that would be the expensive option of going through the dealership for installation) And other silly options like the 20kWh battery pack I have sitting in my garage, could turn that into a supplemental battery, even the stupid way of just running an inverter off it to charge the car when it is stopped. I've considered retro fitting a little RV generator to it, plenty of room under the hood (the nice part of an ICE car turned electric is that there was little consideration taken under the hood. Motor just sits down there with the transmission with the motor controller on top)

I typically drive between 20 and 40 miles a day depending on if I am going somewhere other than work. With gasoline at the local price of $4.25-4.40, this has worked out well for me.

At the moment you only have OEM options for replacement. The industry hasn't really made a full transition. Soon you will have aftermarket shops offering refurbished batteries (this already happens for things like the Prius) Obviously the automakers are going to fight tooth and nail to keep these things OEM only, but I don't see that happening. Right to repair is making the news more and more and some of the tech companies are already giving in (in their own barely legitimate way) Apple for instance pricing their DIY repairs just under what they charge themselves.

Besides, at 10 years you are going to start looking at the other typical failures in a vehicle. Shocks, wheel bearings, tie rods, steering racks, potential for rust, heater cores, AC/Heat Pumps, window regulators, door locks, powered seats, entertainment clusters. Just because you don't have to change the oil and filters doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of things to go wrong. EVs tend to have extensive water cooling systems, with multiple loops, valves, and pumps. For heating or cooling the batteries, motor controller, or motor.
 
As long as the cost to replace the battery is significantly less than it costs to get a new car, or heck, even a used one, then it may pan out in the end. But I want to do some math to make sure I have my numbers right.

Since 95% of my driving is within 70-100 miles round trip, I don't need an EV with a long-ish range. So let's go with a recent Nissan Leaf. Assuming I get the 40kWh battery pack (good for 149 miles), according to this website, it costs around $7500 to replace it. I average around 10,000 miles a year and the car I drive typically gets around 33MPG with all the driving I do. And I live in a lovely place with high gas prices (cheapest in my immediate area is $5.49). Ignoring maintenance costs, lets put this all together:

10,000 miles over 10 years is 100,000 miles. Divide that by the MPG I get and I'm at about 3030 gallons of fuel. Assuming gas prices remain where they are, I'm looking at a fuel cost of about $16,635.

Google tells me the Nissan Leaf gets about 0.31kWh per mile (side note: trying to think about the units here is hurting my head), which is about 31,000 kWh after 100,000 miles. The plan I have with my electric company is they charge different rates at different times, and I'll certainly be taking advantage of the time when the rates are the lowest. The average rate for that is $0.4097 per kWh. So rolling that all in I need to spend... $12,700. Throw in a replacement battery and the grand total is $20,200.

Now while to me, this definitely tells me that getting an EV doesn't make sense from a long-term cost perspective, I'm not going to write off EVs outright. There are things we can do to improve the experience like say... easily replaceable batteries or investing in battery recycling. Like the reason why lead-acid batteries are cheap is because lead is infinitely recyclable. If the same or close enough can be done with lithium, then it should drive the cost of batteries down significantly.
 

Eximo

Titan
Ambassador
As long as the cost to replace the battery is significantly less than it costs to get a new car, or heck, even a used one, then it may pan out in the end. But I want to do some math to make sure I have my numbers right.

Since 95% of my driving is within 70-100 miles round trip, I don't need an EV with a long-ish range. So let's go with a recent Nissan Leaf. Assuming I get the 40kWh battery pack (good for 149 miles), according to this website, it costs around $7500 to replace it. I average around 10,000 miles a year and the car I drive typically gets around 33MPG with all the driving I do. And I live in a lovely place with high gas prices (cheapest in my immediate area is $5.49). Ignoring maintenance costs, lets put this all together:

10,000 miles over 10 years is 100,000 miles. Divide that by the MPG I get and I'm at about 3030 gallons of fuel. Assuming gas prices remain where they are, I'm looking at a fuel cost of about $16,635.

Google tells me the Nissan Leaf gets about 0.31kWh per mile (side note: trying to think about the units here is hurting my head), which is about 31,000 kWh after 100,000 miles. The plan I have with my electric company is they charge different rates at different times, and I'll certainly be taking advantage of the time when the rates are the lowest. The average rate for that is $0.4097 per kWh. So rolling that all in I need to spend... $12,700. Throw in a replacement battery and the grand total is $20,200.

Now while to me, this definitely tells me that getting an EV doesn't make sense from a long-term cost perspective, I'm not going to write off EVs outright. There are things we can do to improve the experience like say... easily replaceable batteries or investing in battery recycling. Like the reason why lead-acid batteries are cheap is because lead is infinitely recyclable. If the same or close enough can be done with lithium, then it should drive the cost of batteries down significantly.
You have pricey electricity, and 310 W/mi is a little on the high side. That is straight line driving with no braking at interstate speeds (highway speeds is much better on efficiency). Regenerative braking can pull in as much 20-25% back whenever you come to a stop. My 74 mile rated car averages about 90 miles in the city, despite hitting 55Mph in my daily commute.

Solar installation can also be huge offset to running an electric car, plus the whole house backup is nice. There is also the future possibility of free charging, either public works or individual companies offering it as a perk.

150mi range is on the low side of EVs coming out now. 210mi range on the cheaper side, pushing to 350mi on the high end. So $7500 for a battery may be really, really low.

Before used car prices went crazy I was tempted to buy a 2019 or 2020 Hyundai Kona electric, maybe the Ioniq. But with prices as they are I'll probably drive this thing till something pops.

I should add that many states still have tax rebates for purchasing new EVs. And most states charge an estimated tax on the license to recoup you not paying fuel taxes.
 
It’s not the only reason I haven’t gone EV yet but it is something I definitely considered especially as I’m now a low mileage driver <6k miles a year. I did think to myself would I buy a 7 year old EV knowing the rated battery life is 10 years on most, the answer was no due to the sky high cost of replacement. Therefore as the pool of older EV’s increases over time as the market shifts I think there is a risk of their resale reducing lower than we see today.

The other things that I considered were the report Volvo released stating that between an EV and ICE versions I would need to drive 50k miles in the EV before it became lower emissions than the ICE car when factoring in the extra emissions from production of the EV version. Seeing as I change cars no more than every 5 years my emissions will be less with the ICE.

The other factor I considered was the new solid state batteries on the horizon look to be a big improvement in all aspects over those currently used. Once these come to market in a few years I expect it will push down the value of cars with the older type batteries.
 
Last edited:
You have pricey electricity, and 310 W/mi is a little on the high side. That is straight line driving with no braking at interstate speeds (highway speeds is much better on efficiency). Regenerative braking can pull in as much 20-25% back whenever you come to a stop. My 74 mile rated car averages about 90 miles in the city, despite hitting 55Mph in my daily commute.

Solar installation can also be huge offset to running an electric car, plus the whole house backup is nice. There is also the future possibility of free charging, either public works or individual companies offering it as a perk.

150mi range is on the low side of EVs coming out now. 210mi range on the cheaper side, pushing to 350mi on the high end. So $7500 for a battery may be really, really low.

Before used car prices went crazy I was tempted to buy a 2019 or 2020 Hyundai Kona electric, maybe the Ioniq. But with prices as they are I'll probably drive this thing till something pops.

I should add that many states still have tax rebates for purchasing new EVs. And most states charge an estimated tax on the license to recoup you not paying fuel taxes.
Yeah, energy costs where I live is probably in the higher end of the spectrum, but it's a perspective to look at and I don't think it's trivial given that there's 24 million people or so in the geographical region I'm in.

As far as regenerative braking goes, as much as I'll admit that I let that slip by, looking into some, it's too variable of a factor for me to consider because it depends entirely on how I'm driving. And since I don't have data for my driving habits with an EV, I can only go off of some baseline.

I also have my doubts that free charging will be a common enough thing in the future (it's only a thing now to spur adoption), and it's a toss-up of what percentage of free charging I can use, especially when you consider availability (does a place have it? are people using it when I want to use it?). So to keep things fair, I figure 100% home charging is the way to go.

Having a home battery does sound nice, but at the same time, I'm on a high priority circuit thanks to all of the retirement homes in the area. And the rebates for the Leaf in my state are $2000, and that may go away by the time I'm forced to get an EV.

Again, I'm not writing off EVs completely, but at the moment it doesn't make sense to me to get one.
 

Eximo

Titan
Ambassador
The other things that I considered were the report Volvo released stating that between an EV and ICE versions I would need to drive 50k miles in the EV before it became lower emissions than the ICE car when factoring in the extra emissions from production of the EV version. Seeing as I change cars no more than every 5 years my emissions will be less with the ICE.
I've not found any super credible studies that lay out the cost of production vs lifetime output. I think of it more as a way to centralize pollution regardless. Effectively my car runs on natural gas and coal, but at a centralized facility where emissions can be tightly controlled, vs having an emissions handling device on every vehicle (and in an inspectionless state with rampant catalytic converter theft, yeah no...)

And if they are factoring in mining pollution for lithium, they should take a close look at noble metal mining to make catalytic converters and oil cracking catalysts for gasoline production. Though that might balance out with the additional copper an electric car needs. (Though yields for copper/aluminum/lithium are way better than platinum/iridium/palladium)

Still, it takes pollution off of city streets, and that can only be a benefit to general health. A lot less roadway runoff from oil drippings too.

The reason I think some solar powered production is likely to be free is a way to entice people to come to your location. Say, Wal-mart putting up a large array and offering free charging while shopping. There is also the logistics of paid charging, you need expensive systems with internet capability to connect to payment processors. It runs very smoothly by companies like Chargepoint (if a bit expensive to use, still cheaper than gas), but the installations are very expensive to install and number in the thousands. When you start looking at needing hundreds of thousands of chargers, it may end up differently.

Solid state batteries will be a long time coming. Too much momentum on lithium. And you can bet those companies will do anything they can to prevent re-tooling.
 
I've not found any super credible studies that lay out the cost of production vs lifetime output. I think of it more as a way to centralize pollution regardless. Effectively my car runs on natural gas and coal, but at a centralized facility where emissions can be tightly controlled, vs having an emissions handling device on every vehicle (and in an inspectionless state with rampant catalytic converter theft, yeah no...)

And if they are factoring in mining pollution for lithium, they should take a close look at noble metal mining to make catalytic converters and oil cracking catalysts for gasoline production. Though that might balance out with the additional copper an electric car needs. (Though yields for copper/aluminum/lithium are way better than platinum/iridium/palladium)

Still, it takes pollution off of city streets, and that can only be a benefit to general health. A lot less roadway runoff from oil drippings too.

The reason I think some solar powered production is likely to be free is a way to entice people to come to your location. Say, Wal-mart putting up a large array and offering free charging while shopping. There is also the logistics of paid charging, you need expensive systems with internet capability to connect to payment processors. It runs very smoothly by companies like Chargepoint (if a bit expensive to use, still cheaper than gas), but the installations are very expensive to install and number in the thousands. When you start looking at needing hundreds of thousands of chargers, it may end up differently.

Solid state batteries will be a long time coming. Too much momentum on lithium. And you can bet those companies will do anything they can to prevent re-tooling.
Clearly I’m no expert, just going off what I found. I don’t have the knowledge to question it but the study by Volvo is supposed to look at the whole supply chain and production of both the EV and ICE. They even included different mileages to break even on emissions based on different countries mix of emissions from electric production.

I can see the point of taking emissions off the street but if the Volvo study is close to reality this isn’t acceptable in my view. While the country using the EV benefits the country manufacturing or providing raw materials is suffering. It cannot be right to just move emissions to another country.

For solid state batteries these do look to be at least a few years off for EV’s but I saw Toyota are aiming to get Hybrids to market in the near future using this technology.

I agree about the infrastructure for changing. Here in the UK I see that as a major challenge as adoption ramps up. While we see reports of the number of points increasing we also see reports of material numbers actually being out of service. For some installing a charger can be difficult. I know someone who had to have the cable between the road and their property changed which involved digging up their drive. This has happened to another property down the street. These properties were built in the 1930’s. There are also properties that you cannot install a charger, this is where I have a problem. As my parking space is not directly linked to the property to put in a cable for a charger crosses public property and that is just too expensive to consider. I did look into fast charging but when talking to the Tesla rep he acknowledged fast charging should be used no more than 1 in 5 charges otherwise battery life and warranty could be impacted.

I’m waiting until the technology moves on. It looks like solid state will at least double the range and make fast charging a viable option as the primary method for charging. If this happens I see no reason I won’t go EV.
 

Eximo

Titan
Ambassador
For solid state batteries these do look to be at least a few years off for EV’s but I saw Toyota are aiming to get Hybrids to market in the near future using this technology.
That right there tells you they are hedging their bets rather than going for a full EV. Though that could change.

Solid state batteries are still relatively new. Lithium Ion goes back about 40 years, with heavy production over the last 25 years. They started looking at solid state about ten years ago. There is one laptop battery brand carrying one, that was about two years ago.
 

logainofhades

Titan
Moderator
I drive 60+ miles per day Mon-Fri and if I'm heading up north for the weekend it's a 500mi round trip minimum. I'm doing over 25k miles a year. Its a pickup truck filled with tools. EV wouldn't cut it.
A Ford F150 Lightning might make it, but it could be cutting it close. I am anti EV, until there are better environmentally friendly batteries. You figure the emissions to mine for the rare metals, and environmental damage done to extract them, EV's aren't as eco friendly, as some would suggest. I have seen that Toyota is actually trying to design a better battery. EV is probably the future, but we aren't there yet. Personally, I would like to see EV's with a hydrogen powered generator, for long trips.
 

tennis2

Judicious
Not to detract from the topic I created, but the charging conversation makes me think plug-in electric isn't the long-term solution. There's no denying the amount of "energy" you can load into a gasoline car in a very short amount of time. With EVs having relative short range and long charge time, I can't help but think that something like Hydrogen Fuel Cell will ultimately win. Although it will require infrastructure modifications, you can stick with the pre-existing "gas station" locations because "fueling" time is much like gasoline. I understand that charging at home is probably perceived as a convenience for plug-in EVs, so as that movement gains market share, I can see it being harder and harder for HFC to gain a foothold.
(Not a pro) But IIRC, HFC also requires much less battery capacity since it's actively generating power and the battery is more of a 2-way energy bank. Smaller battery = less cost/weight/waste. The unfortunate limitation is that HFC tech development has seemingly been pushed to the back burner. Maybe we end up with plug-in HFC in the future.
 
Last edited:
Not to detract from the topic I created, but the charging conversation makes me think plug-in electric isn't the long-term solution. There's no denying the amount of "energy" you can load into a gasoline car in a very short amount of time. With EVs having relative short range and long charge time, I can't help but think that something like Hydrogen Fuel Cell will ultimately win. Although it will require infrastructure modifications, you can stick with the pre-existing "gas station" locations because "fueling" time is much like gasoline. (Not a pro) But IIRC, HFS also requires much less battery capacity which is a cost/weight/waste bonus. The unfortunate limitation is that HFS tech development has seemingly been pushed to the back burner.
I have read that some of the German car manufacturers want the ban on ICE pushed back as they believe synthetic fuels could have significantly reduced emissions.
 

Eximo

Titan
Ambassador
Kind of my field of study at work. Public transport and we have electric buses and are weighing CNG, Hydrogen, All Electric, and plain Hybrid Diesels for future plans. Our current buses can do about 180 miles under good conditions. At the speeds they run this is just enough for common 8 hour and 10 hour shifts. We also have some en-route charging as a supplement, but it is usually less then 10% charge during a run. (They run on less dense LiFePO batteries, for the curious, but basically the non explodey lithium)

Hydrogen has many problems without a green source of power. Currently most Hydrogen is made directly using natural gas, so CH4 -> 2 H2 + C02. That just moves the combustion to the production facility. Green hydrogen means taking a renewable like wind or solar, and using that to electrolyze water. Then you have to compress, or liquify it for transport. There are HUGE losses in doing this, then you have transport and storage. Plus there is the inherent dangers an invisible flammable gas, and maintenance of the fueling hoses. (These problems are more or less solved, but I don't really like the idea of your average driver plowing through a hydrogen fuel station...) Powering the grid with renewables is more efficient, even over long distances.

Also, if you think battery lifespan is an issue: Fuel cells degrade over time. One transit agency about ten years ago adopted fuel cell buses, about half have failed well before the 12 year requirement for government funding. They also use noble metals much like catalytic converters, and studies have shown there isn't enough platinum and palladium on the earth to replace every on the road vehicle with a fuel cell. There are organic alternatives, but my understanding is these have even worse life spans.

Natural gas has the advantage of a pre-built distribution infrastructure. However, for proper fuel density it still needs to be compressed, so there is added cost there. Also Renewable CNG, but that is basically you paying a premium and still getting whatever is in the pipe. They don't actually route the specific green gas to you. (What we've looked at would come from cattle)

It comes down to convenience and how certain things can be made all electric without much trouble. Your average commuter is fine with a plug-in. Your service trucks, delivery, etc that require more than a few trips in a single day will need to be looked at more closely. But a lot of logistics and shipping can be handled. One way trips, and we currently have driver requirements that mean they HAVE to stop, and you can easily charge back up overnight and then do the return trip or head to the next destination.

There are also battery switching schemes, where you drive over a pit, drop the battery pack, and get a new one. Basically "renting" your fuel tank. I literally have one in my garage, came out of a Renault taxi. China is also big on this. Around their ring roads they have facilities for taxis to come in for a battery swap. Of course, they just do it by hand, but hey it works.

I'm a proponent of Micro Nuclear. As there are plenty of facilities that can benefit from having local electricity production.

Also, those degraded batteries out of an EV, they don't go to waste. Much like Tesla, grid storage is the new thing. GM, Toyota, Honda, etc are dumping their returned, replaced batteries into the secondary market. Those batteries, which don't have the rated capacity for an automotive purpose, can be run at 40-60% charge, where they can act as buffers, emergency power, and renewable storage.
 
Reactions: sizzling
Couple of things do worry me about an all EV vehicle.

An event of a crash, people can be dumb, run from the law, get into a big crash, it happens often enough, if a EV car ends up smacking the back of a big truck and bursts into flames, your not putting it out with a single fire engine, its not happening, so my concern it how will they handle situations like that?

Now here in the North East, the rust belt, I just don't see EV lasting long due to rot, corrosion, I mean I was a Ford Mechanic and the amount of wire corrosion is crazy and is the number one issue with gas cars is something electrical, a lot Fords seem to rot behind the fuse box and it can cause all sorts of weirdness and a pain to track down.

Charging, Idk about you, but I don't want to drag a 220V extension cord out in 3 feet of snow to charge my car or pouring down rain, that to me is asking for you to get fried, Plus if you live an apartment and have to park on the street or down the block, I just idk, I just don't see it being practical.

Garages, none of these garages are ready for EV, I mean idk how many people I've ran into saying EV wont need any work, well they just don't understand how cars work and what parts normally wear, they will need to be worked on, if not more with how many motors they will need to run stuff, but either way Idk if I want to pay Tesla tax for a brake job, I just hope GM, Ford any everyone else doesn't pull a Tesla, Tesla's cheapest car, a brake job done by them is absolute robbery, and as a ex Ford mechanic, I would avoid the dealer at all costs, Same shobby work at 5 times the price.

Im not against EV, I'm just not ready for it, Not to mention them families who are on a fixed income or on the edge on poverty and always drive clunkers, yeah its not going to be in my life time before everyone switches to EV by just that alone. I drive a 99 Suburban and I probably could afford a car payment, but why? I always bought used cars, I don't like paying on something for years and I could care less what people think about what I drive.
 

Eximo

Titan
Ambassador
We've had lithium Prius by the millions for a while. They just burn out after being surrounded by the fire department. (And again I bring up the hydrogen alternative...)

Normal cars don't last in the rust belt either. Electric cars do have more or less closed up undersides for aerodynamics, a lot less exposure of the underside to salted roads. You still have to worry about the suspension. Wire corrosion is a lot less impactful when the major wiring is as thick as it is, and the insulation is significantly thicker. I consider this a non-factor. What makes EVs make little sense up north is that they have electric heaters. You can lop 30% or more off the range of an EV if you have to run the heater.

Traction motors aren't too likely to fail in the vehicle lifetime, AC compressors will have similar failure rates as before. Though many EVs use heat pumps for efficiency, but that still means a compressor. Swapping out electronics and motor controllers should actually be relatively straight forward compared to most engine mechanical failures. Not saying that parts will be cheap, but the labor should be lessened for the most part. Personally, I do my own brakes but they get a lot less wear and tear in an EV with regen doing the heavy lifting. If you drive super aggressively, then they will need more maintenance.

Most of the work that EVs need doing is still going to be standard stuff. Interior, heater cores, electric seats, windows, entertainment systems. Major repairs will be lessened. Mostly going to be part swaps for the foreseeable future.

Used EVs are already below the cost of a new sub compact. Nissan Leafs available by the dozen. They are short range, but there is a large segment of population that can deal with that. Right now the issue is all the desirable EVs cost as much or more than buying new.
 
I just hope GM, Ford any everyone else doesn't pull a Tesla, Tesla's cheapest car, a brake job done by them is absolute robbery, and as a ex Ford mechanic, I would avoid the dealer at all costs, Same shobby work at 5 times the price.
I don't think this is the biggest concern with company's trying to emulate Tesla. The biggest concern is you don't own a Tesla. Tesla owns your Tesla. Maybe not legally speaking, but they can, for instance, remotely kill your car, push OTA updates, and are asking for a subscription to beta test their software (well, if you want that feature).

I'd hate to have a future where you need a monthly subscription to even use your car.

EDIT: Speaking of the OTA updates thing, since I don't own a Tesla and don't really care enough to dig in further, I am concerned what exactly they're pushing. If the software controlling the basic functions of a car is what needs updating rather than say feature updates, then that's a little concerning.

But even then, a car shouldn't need frequent OTA updates to begin with, even for non vehicular features. I installed an Android head unit in my car a couple years ago and it only had one firmware update, which as far as I knew fixed some issue with the steering wheel media controls. Though I think Android Auto head units don't actually have anything on them Android related. It's your phone that's driving it and the head unit is completely serviceable without Android Auto.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Viking2121
Don't own an electric, but I feel they need a range of at least 400 miles and a way to fast charge. I work 60 miles from home, so I'm putting quite a bit of mileage on my vehicle. Currently driving a 2013 ford focus with the auto transmission. I know there are a lot of complaints on them, but the car is paid off and I'm getting nearly 38mpg. So essentially I can buy a lot of gas for the price of any new EV. I feel like the EV's need to come down in price to. If they can get to where they can charge faster, have 400 miles range or above, and are reasonably priced, maybe I'd consider one.
 

Eximo

Titan
Ambassador
Fast charging is already a thing, just not very good for the batteries in the long run. (And one of the reason's for Ford's recent Mach-E recall, contactors popping under fast charging or heavy acceleration)

Available charging at your destination would be the somewhat simple solution. When my commute was about 40 miles and my car's range about 80 miles, it was too risky. So I moved. I did have the option of paying for parking with free charging, but it was cheaper in the long run to simply move closer (And it was a sellers/buyers market sold in under a week, got a great mortgage rate on the new place) plus saving myself about an hour commute.

Not going to be a 300+ mile range car in the budget class until battery production costs are cut by about 3 or 4 times what they are now. Minor hopes in solid state batteries. Lithium Sulphur is hitting the news lately, that one shows some promise in being a very slight modification to existing production so would have a quick turn around. As usual you can't take the claims of 3x better range without a huge pinch of salt. Always lab conditions and using very simplistic measurements that don't include manufacturing processes. But even if it pans out to 50%, that is 1/3 less battery pack required, or more range.

When the long range Model 3 start dropping out of warranty support, then you might get yourself a 300 mile range car pretty cheaply.

But as it sits you are looking at 60K+ for 350-400 mile range. Mercedes has a whopping 485 mile range model for sale, but that is $126,000...
 
Yeah even with the price of gas I’ll hold onto my gas car. When it comes time to replace it I’ll probably find something like a Honda Civic or accord or similar that runs that I can pay cash for or have a car low payment (as long as my mechanic says it runs fine).
 
After a battery has been worn out and can’t be used in a car anymore it can still be sold and used in peoples basements as a power bank so the cost can probably be offset somewhat. However I believe that the batteries will last far longer than 10 years. Remember when everyone wondered about the Prius? They’ve had no battery issues whatsoever

Now Elon musk is talking about 1,000,000 mile battery’s

I’m sticking with ice vehicles until the price comes down and the Range increases significantly. Also I am waiting until there’s chargers everywhere they can charge the batteries extremely fast and battery technology that doesn’t wear out with extremely fast charges
 
After a battery has been worn out and can’t be used in a car anymore it can still be sold and used in peoples basements as a power bank so the cost can probably be offset somewhat. However I believe that the batteries will last far longer than 10 years. Remember when everyone wondered about the Prius? They’ve had no battery issues whatsoever

Now Elon musk is talking about 1,000,000 mile battery’s

I’m sticking with ice vehicles until the price comes down and the Range increases significantly. Also I am waiting until there’s chargers everywhere they can charge the batteries extremely fast and battery technology that doesn’t wear out with extremely fast charges
Agreed they need to let the technology catch up. Guy I used to go to Church with is a mechanic now and had an electric truck in the shop needing new batteries. I think they said the truck was only 2-3 years old and the cost was going to be about 10k to fix.
 

Eximo

Titan
Ambassador
Agreed they need to let the technology catch up. Guy I used to go to Church with is a mechanic now and had an electric truck in the shop needing new batteries. I think they said the truck was only 2-3 years old and the cost was going to be about 10k to fix.
Well that would be covered under warranty. Federal law requires 8 years 100,000 miles on all EV battery packs.

1,000,000 mile battery isn't that unrealistic. You take the average Tesla at 300 miles and assume the typical 2000 recharges of a lithium battery and that gets you 600,000 miles. Over provision the battery a little and you can extend the life dramatically. Gets even easier as the battery pack gets bigger.


On the subject of the Prius. Gen 1 was NiMH cylindrical cells, Gen 2 was NiMH prismatic cells (pouches), Both were sub 2 kWh packs. Tiny and they were only run between 40-60% charge, so the usable capacity was really tiny. EV range was a few miles at best (I can personally attest as I have built an EV battery around 3 gen 2 Prius packs, managed a whopping 5 mile range) Even the newer lithium plug-ins have a small 25 mile range. It is a different use case to pure EVs. You always have onboard power capability so there is never a need to fully discharge the battery.
 
Well that would be covered under warranty. Federal law requires 8 years 100,000 miles on all EV battery packs.

1,000,000 mile battery isn't that unrealistic. You take the average Tesla at 300 miles and assume the typical 2000 recharges of a lithium battery and that gets you 600,000 miles. Over provision the battery a little and you can extend the life dramatically. Gets even easier as the battery pack gets bigger.


On the subject of the Prius. Gen 1 was NiMH cylindrical cells, Gen 2 was NiMH prismatic cells (pouches), Both were sub 2 kWh packs. Tiny and they were only run between 40-60% charge, so the usable capacity was really tiny. EV range was a few miles at best (I can personally attest as I have built an EV battery around 3 gen 2 Prius packs, managed a whopping 5 mile range) Even the newer lithium plug-ins have a small 25 mile range. It is a different use case to pure EVs. You always have onboard power capability so there is never a need to fully discharge the battery.
if true then that’s good. It sounds like they may be getting better. I wonder about things like range in very cold weather for example. Just concerned that the technology isn’t there yet, plus not enough charge stations. Also seems to me they will end up adding a surcharge on electricity to offset loss of gas taxes. Just seems like something they should work on getting infrastructure etc in place and coming back in 5-10 years time.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY