is Dell quietly saying Vista is a failure ?

[DrozD]

CNet News
Dell is bringing XP back
http://news.com.com/Dell+brings+back+XP+on+home+systems/2100-1046_3-6177619.html?tag=nefd.top

Maybe MS should try Better, Faster, Cheaper instead of here's a cutsy interface, slower, for more money, and DX10 with no games (but the future looks bright, yeah). Vista, another disappointment, like STALKER. Been a bad year so far.

 

[pkellmey]

Apparently, from what I have read on tech sites, someone in Dell is saying this is all related to poor GPU drivers and they only expect to support it until the end of this year. Hopefully, driver support improves or Dell may be stuck trying to sell PCs with a non-supported OS.

 

[hergieburbur]

From what I saw here:

Dell offers XP again

It has a lot to do with pressure from customers and a higher demand for XP than Vista.

 

[Oatmealsoup]

It has a lot to do with pressure from customers and a higher demand for XP than Vista.

This is pretty much the only reason any OEM would do this.

 

[pkellmey]

Right. Apparently the pressure from people who were getting continual GPU problems forced the re-think on how to support the OS. Dell can't fix the problem themselves (they don't create the hardware), so the only alternative was to backtrack to the OS they knew they could support with the older drivers.

 

[hergieburbur]

Personally, I think you are over-simplifying the whole thing to just one issue (GPU support), but thats just my analysis.

 

[joke]

Personally, I think you are over-simplifying the whole thing to just one issue (GPU support), but thats just my analysis.

Fortunately, we all get to have our personal opinions and I think you are just greatly overstating the issue. Have you even read these articles? The only damning comments are strictly editorial in nature, without any real facts to back them up (much like your comments here). Also, the second url you post is nothing new, it is just a rehash of the first with heavier editing of the same quotations.

Users get to vote on various suggestions, and the notion of bringing back XP got 10,000 "points," making it among the most popular requests but well below top picks such as adding Linux or OpenOffice.org to its PCs.

This is hardly a blistering assault against Vista.

Dell said, it is adding XP Home and Professional as options on four Inspiron laptop models and two Dimension desktops.

A very select few of its business class machines is not a sea-change. Both HP and Levano still support XP for a few business users and also to maintain DOT and NIST contracts (remember those MAJOR issues from March). The government contracts are _probably_ the only true reason Dell has retreated.

Dell does not have plans to launch Windows XP for home users as the preference, and demand is for the 'latest and greatest' technology, which includes Windows Vista

Just keep in mind that the likes of Dell, HP, and Levano will only have until the end of the year and MS are stating that a few other integrators will have an additional year before XP is completely gone.

The software maker has said it will stop selling Windows XP to large PC makers by January.

 

[Zoron]

Gamers buying Dell PCs with Vista are mostly the ones complaining; either they can't run their 10 year-old games, or the games they are running are quite getting the performance they expect. (Most likely due to nVidia / Vista driver issues). People still expect to play Diablo II on Vista for #@$* sake.

Can't people find new games to play? Didn't Diablo stop being fun like 5 years ago?

 

[hergieburbur]

Yep, I'm full of it. Just because I pointed out that:

A) People aren't ready to move to Vista en masse

B)Vista has more flaws than just GPU issues.

Those by the way, are both facts, not my personal opinion. Though you are certainly entitled to yours.

Further, if you actually worked with Dell like I do, you would realize that those government contracts have NOTHING to do with Dell retreating. Dell never switched the business and government lines completely over to Vista in the first place. They have always offered XP as an option for those sectors.

BTW, Inspiron and Dimension PCs ARE NOT really Dell's business line, they are for home users. Latitudes, Precisions, and Optiplex's are their business line.

 

[joke]

Yep, I'm full of it. Just because I pointed out that:

A) People aren't ready to move to Vista en masse

B)Vista has more flaws than just GPU issues.

Dude (hey is that a Dell expression ), don't be so sensitive. I never said you were full of it but if you feel the pain, take a laxitive, don't come after me.

I am only responding to the quotes that were officially released by Dell and other known facts, in order to best understand their retreat. I do not believe any (IMO) biased editorials or even your 'sworn to-be-true A & B facts'.

Please don't take offense if I don't put a lot of faith in you right now. I don't know you very well; if you have real proof, you know, secret Dell documents that refute the known, official statements, lets see them. I am sure Toms Hardware or a hundred other news agencys would love to publish them for you.

Otherwise anything YOU claim to be the truth in this forum is truly just more crap-o-noise from just another DUDE trying to spread fud.

Now if that sounds like I am suggesting that you are full of it, well... so be it.

 

[hergieburbur]

First off, "Dude", I don't expect you to take my word that I am credible. This is a forum, and you don't know me (others here do, and know that I know what I am talking about), nor do I know you. I don't remember "coming after you" either. I merely pointed out statements you made that were incorrect. Nothing more. We all make mistakes some times.

Further, neither points A nor B had anything to do with Dell, or any "secret" documents. Looks up the Vista sales figures and exercise some basic critical thinking to see that A is true for the time being. As for B, if you don't think Vista (or any other software for that matter) has any flaws, then I really have to question your credibility. All software has flaws, even the stuff I write. I have used Vista enough to know that it is by no means an exception. Thats all I said.

As for the Truth, I told you they were always offering XP in the Business and Government sector. I am sure you won't take my word for it on the past, (or the fact that my company has bought several PC and laptops with XP from Dell for clients since Vista debuted) but as of right this minute, straight from the horses mouth:

Business: Dell PCs Offering XP

Government: Dell PCs offering XP

Hardly what I would call secret documents.

And for the record, please explain to where I said anything that was fud, or "crap-o-noise, whatever the hell that is. From where I sit, you are the only one that made any unsubstantiated claims in your "the gov't contracts made them do it" BS.

 

[joke]

Sorry for the 2am anger post - this thread really isn't worth it.

doesn't seem to include an 'edited' comment so fyi I edited this post at 8:30 pst.

 

[hergieburbur]

Wow, if your don't mind me saying, your analysis of what I said sucks. Neither of those statements was meant to be in the context of, nor the cause of, Dell's "retreat". Rather, they were, and are associated points of information.

For Point A, I don't care what any Dell employee says. It has already been shown by many analysts that MS's sales figures that you claim prove Vista sales are outstripping all other OSes are flawed. They crammed 4-5 months worth of sales (upgrade certificates), into one month, and counted sales into the OEM pipeline, rather than consumer sales, in their figures. There are plenty of articles similar to This One, mostly from more reputable sources that dissect their claims in great details. Further, I was speaking from my personal experience. A lot of people I have talked to simply have no interest in moving to Vista, myself included after using it for awhile. If you want to drink the kool-aid fine, but don't impose it on us.

As for B, you completely misread that one. I never said Dell was moving away because of issues beyond the GPU related ones. I implied that people in general were experience more pains than just one issue. For instance, the fact that ATI AIW cards don't work properly in Vista, the fact that a lot of other software isn't ready for it yet. I NEVER said issues were the primary aspect for the movement. Thats why I asked you to practice some critical thinking skills in relation to the issue. You chose not to.

I can see that you are one of those that insists on twisting what I say and arguing with me until you can convince yourself that you are right. Fine, you are going to think what you want anyway. I am not going to argue with you over a difference of opinion. I merely stated that People aren't quite ready to switch to Vista en masse, and that Vista still has some flaws that need worked out. You have every right to disagree with me. I don't particularly care. You do not have to right to attempt to impeach my credibility based on twisting my words.

 

[hergieburbur]

I just want to point out that I am not trying to argue here, especially not just to prove I am right or you are wrong. I am merely pointing out that there is supporting evidence to all of the claims I made, which you said were either made up or BS.

Believe or not, I do know what I am talking about.

 

[dsharp9000]

hergieburber,

I agree with your evidence --- there is a problem with vista --- these problems really do exist and they are not made up or bs. It be nice if someone gave evidence to the contrary of what you are saying.

 

[Zoron]

Almost every new OS has teething pains... XP wasn't much different in the beginning; it too had driver / software compatibility issues. Everyone can continue to point fingers as to exactly who's at fault... but that doesn't change the facts.

The biggest issue I've seen with new computers thus far is running old software. No doubt that XP is better at running software 3+ years old than Vista. However, new software and patches should fix those problems. It may even take SP1 to fix all the problems... I really don't know.

My point is... I believe at least some of the negative press surrounding Vista has been blown out of proportion. All of it? No, some of it is deserved. However, people that expect the transition to a completely new Windows OS to be completely painless are seriously deluding themselves.

 

[hergieburbur]

I agree completely. I think ultimately the message behind this article is that there was an effort to force a conversion to Vista too early. I think user feedback to Dell made them realize that consumers still want the option to buy XP until more issues are ironed out.

 

[Zoron]

Yet another reason I always build my own computer... I have complete control over the software that's installed. I'm happy to see that Dell will continue to offer Win XP.

 

[hergieburbur]

Agreed. The only pre-built machines I buy are laptops.

 

[riser]

Quote:
Dell said, it is adding XP Home and Professional as options on four Inspiron laptop models and two Dimension desktops.

A very select few of its business class machines is not a sea-change. Both HP and Levano still support XP for a few business users and also to maintain DOT and NIST contracts (remember those MAJOR issues from March). The government contracts are _probably_ the only true reason Dell has retreated.

A Dimension desktop isn't a business class PC offered by Dell. Optiplex are the business class PCs which don't even offer the option of switching to Vista. They're strictly XP machines and have never had the option of Vista at any point.

 

[hergieburbur]

Quote:
Dell said, it is adding XP Home and Professional as options on four Inspiron laptop models and two Dimension desktops.

A very select few of its business class machines is not a sea-change. Both HP and Levano still support XP for a few business users and also to maintain DOT and NIST contracts (remember those MAJOR issues from March). The government contracts are _probably_ the only true reason Dell has retreated.

A Dimension desktop isn't a business class PC offered by Dell. Optiplex are the business class PCs which don't even offer the option of switching to Vista. They're strictly XP machines and have never had the option of Vista at any point.

You are partly right. Optiplex is a business pc but the new ones that we are receiving at work do have vista stickers on them as being what is "supposed" to be installed on them but I think we have a multi license of some sort that allows us to install xp on them instead. The other guy that works with me in my department just recently received one of these new systems I think a couple weeks ago with a core 2 E6300 and it has one of those vista stickers on it. He actually pointed it out to me and was saying how he was glad it was not actually on the pc and had xp instead.

*Edit The friend I was talking about earlier is actually dating a girl that works in our IS department and she said they have been busy wiping off Vista from the new machines and installing XP on them.

I am not sure if this still applies with Vista, but with most corporate/business licenses, you are automatically allowed to install an older OS version under the newer license (IE, Win2K with an XP license). I haven't seen anything about this changing.

I am sure they are just buying the Vista licenses for future use, as you can still buy optiplex, precision, and latitude machines with XP pre-installed. When I worked in corporate IT support, we did that with XP. We bought them with XP installed, and immediately rolled back to 2k until we were ready to upgrade to XP.

 

[dsharp9000]

hergieburber,

I have one computer that i hand built from scratch --- it is my server ---- and it runs the best of all my computers.

I wish i could do this for all my computers --- but cannot as it costs me a lot of money for my business --- my business is small --- 10 computers -- plus couple laptops --- xp version from dell offers my company a lot of bang for the buck --- to get same computer with vista with same performance --- costs a couple hundred extra -- and then vista still wont run my legacy applications--- main thing is --- there is nothing for me in vista right now other than pay extra to get same or less performance and even then some critical applications i need will not run in vista

 

[hergieburbur]

There are actually still valid reasons to still use 2k. If it does what you need it to and supports your hardware well enough, then why introduce additional overhead in the form of a bulkier OS? There are also a lot of industrial apps that still just plain work better on 2k than newer OSes.

 

[riser]

That just means they're compatible. They used to send the sticker with the word "Compatible" under the sticker, now they just send the sticker on the PC to state its spec'd out to use up to that Windows OS.

The sticker most likely says "Designed For" on it, but since its Optiplex, they stick with XP.

I order a few hundred Optiplex and Dimensions a year.