Is everyone shy or what? Inputs on GF4 here!

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eden

eden

Champion
Oct 3, 2001
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Alright I've first got to say an apology to Varlo for not beleiving him. You were indeed right, but I just never had experience in leaked stuff and so I thought it was fake news!

The article was quite fun to read, although not as complex as the Gf3 one as some may recall! But then again these are updated technologies not new ones anyway.
Accuview also is the name of contact lens, I wonder how they got the license from that! It however truly amazes me with its awesome AA performance, as it improves a lot over Quincunx and helps. I wonder if blurriness has gone.

Now on to benchs, at first it merely impressed me. But once we reached Max Payne and Aquanox, I literally wouldn't beleive the jump! The Ti4600 clearly does wonders compared to when GF3 was out and its gap from GF2 Ultra to it was not that far. One that really impressed me is 3d Mark, man 10000 3d Marks at least and so easily! The tests some did online were lying about 8700 only! And even in high res it manages to keep at Rad 8500 marks.
I am eagerly awaiting later GF4 Tis, since they didn't even start DX9 or use 8X AGP! Not to mention later price drops hopefully, this just might be my next purchase in a year or so, if not GF5....

Now please put inputs, don't be shy!


--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
 
I wouldn't be surprised if a great amount of the performance improvement in the GF4Ti4600 comes from driver optimization. In any case, I expect the R8500 to catch up to the Ti4400 through better drivers.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
 
You know, there's a lot more to optimising graphics cards than just the drivers. The GeForce 4 is faster because it uses newer, more advanced algorithms and because they have found better ways of implementing those algorithms at the hardware level.
I think it's very unlikely that the 8500 will catch up to the Ti4400 from drivers alone. ATI will have to improve the core (as I'm sure they will) to overtake the GeForce 4.

Back to Edens post, I think the GeForce 4 Ti cards look great, particularly the lower priced Ti4200. The GeForce 4 MX card look like they would be good for the mobile arena, but I wouldn't pay for one for my desktop.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
 
I really do not believe it will be possible on the software level to improve the R8500 so that it catches the Ti4400. It should just be happy competing w/ the Ti500. The Ti4600 was simply amazing! I mean WTF! these are preliminary drivers, w/o AGP 8x, and DX9, and this thing is raping any other vid card!!

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
 
Then explain to me how ATI is promising that the R8500 128MB will compete or outperform the Ti4600 at 275/550? Obviously it's not just the extra 64MB, so it must be a driver update. Also, ATI isn't updating the core, so that's not how they're going to improve performance.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
 
It's called marketing and trying to keep themselves out of business. The average consumer will think woah, 128MB, that surely will perform at the same level as a Gf4 128MB. and 8500 is bigger than 4.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
 
Hmm, the think is, ATI didn't directly say that the 128MB will outperform the Ti4600, they just said the Radeon 8500 will. With the countless driver leaks ATI is shooting out the window, I sincerely believe that they're hiding something up their sleeves. SURPRISE! BOY, I love surprises! :smile:

Then again, it may just be wishful thinking. Hehe, well, I can always hope.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
 
Ahem...let us stick on topic please!

Oh and one other thing that most amazed me later on as I noticed, is that it constantly kept a performance of up to 2 times faster than the GF3 Ti200! At almost all benchs, it was twice faster (80% more would be more accurate) and at AA usage it ran at Ti500 speeds. What's more is they should bring off the 2x and 4X AA from here on as Accuview, or QC 2 is definitly improved and uses EXACT 2X performance which is at Ti500 levels and that is whack!
I was really amazed at seeing Aquanox run at 80FPS and higher on 1024*768 considering it pushes DX8 cards at their maximum! At least Nvidia doesn't do like Intel and release an ultra-expensive product that actually underperforms...thank god they aren't that way! But I want 8X AGP from here on, to see twice bandwidth improvement...ahh one can only dream!
Oh and one can only wonder how much FPS it gave in the 8 Light test in 3dMark 2001! Man that test gave roughly 5 FPS on my Ti200...
But the problem is they didn't specify anything yet like when is it out, and who are the suppliers! MSI is known for low prices and that should promise good news...

One problem with THG benchs is they don't specify how the bench ran! I mean is that FPS an average? If so, at what detail level! Is Aquanox running at max detail, with all enabled of DX8? And is that a minimum FPS or what is the minimum? Does that game ever frame skips on GF3 cards? I do mean at a lot of animation on screen that is.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
 
IMO the best thing about Tom's review was those screen shots of the CODECREATURES engine. I mean wow, those are impressive.
<A HREF="http://tau12.pair.com/sysdoc/graphic/02q1/020206/images/codecult1.jpg" target="_new">This</A> would have to be one of the best real-time landscapes I have ever seen.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
 
I dunno, for some weird reason I wasn't that much impressed with these pics, except for the flowers on the floor and the many little grass. But what are these pics representing? Static picture quality? I mean does that mean that animating such scene or using it in a game would put us in 5 FPS slideshows or what? We need movies to complement such pictures.
The GF3's Nature capabilities was truly beautiful, especially the water dripping and ripples are a true work of art and shows real realism. (check the GF3 article a year ago).
I have just checked Anandtech's review, and man it shows even more exciting potential that GF4 brings! But in THG the tests showed the Ti200 almost always 1.8 times to 2 times slower than GF4 ti4600, but I dunno who to trust since THG used a NW 2.2GHZ and Anand used an XP2000!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
 
Then explain to me how ATI is promising that the R8500 128MB will compete or outperform the Ti4600 at 275/550? Obviously it's not just the extra 64MB, so it must be a driver update. Also, ATI isn't updating the core, so that's not how they're going to improve performance.
Click to expand...


LoL, youre not serious are you amd?

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
 
Promissing Something and Doing and showing the RESULTS, are totally different... I would have to say geforce 4 is in the lead over the ATI boards....Now we will see if ATI will live up to what kind of performance they are promissing, YES that Landscape shot IS AMAZING!!!

Rob,

Once you go AMD, You never Go back!!
 
Dont worry

Geforce 4 will be aviable in 60 day expected so in 3 month there will be aviable and 4 month in Canada.At a high premium price for 2 week.

RV250 will be release, also actual Geforce 4 use almost all the same tech from geforce 3 so they driver are allready good and almost no issue.So dont expect major boost from driver.Look at XBITLAB in there review show that i some case 8500 it just a bit slower.

http://service.madonion.com/servlet/Index?pageid=/orb/projectcompare&projectType=6&projectId=2310900
 
Hey I don't you understand how much improved drivers can help graphics cards. I think that you should listen to AMD MAN for a second, he knows what hes talking about. If you would do a little research you would figure out that the Geforce 3 at first was barely able to beat the GF2 ultra, now there is absolutly no competetion at all. The GF3 has improved 35% from its original performance or more. And I don't think a lot of people realize this but since that last radeon driver update, a Radeon 32MB will actualy perform in par with a GTS, this was not allways like this as you might remember. Just a thought

taylor
 
Yes improved drivers can make a big difference, but there's a limit. The Radeon 8500 can only improve so far, and it has a long way to go to overtake the Ti4400 let alone the Ti4600.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
 
the only good thing about the release of the geforce 4 is the price drop it caused on the geforce3 ti500...
who need 300+ fps in quake anyways...
i dont know if the geforce 4 increased image quality...all i know is it's just a better performer than the ti500...not to mention its FSAA too.
anyways....like i said before...geforce4 release = less $$ for geforce3 ti500

<A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2649487" target="_new">P4 NW + DDR</A> = <font color=blue>Not Bad</font color=blue>
 
OK I know the 8500 has a TON, of room to improve, but the GF3 is maxed out in my opinion, their drivers a re almost perfect. But as we all know, ATI is not the best when it comes to stuff like that. I really think that ATI is going to get better about its drivers simply because they HAVE to. Not only that, but if you look at the specs on the 8500, theoretically the card is superior to the GF3, it provides Full 8.1 support and has much higher clock speeds, faster ram (3.6ns) everything about this card is blazing, And its core is far from being maxed out. Even tom himself said that this card has a HUGE potential. That’s one of the reasons tom was so excited about the card being released because it was obvious to him that this was the card that would bring NVIDIA to its knees. We haven’t seen anything from the 8500 core yet. If the GF3 can improve 35% or more just from drivers, than so can the 8500, especially with 128mb of ram. And who knows what Hercules will do to it. As you may know, Hercules has always pushed cards a little harder than other companies. It will be very interesting to see what they do to the radeon 8500.
These are very interesting times, the GF4 is obviously better than the 8500 and will always be as far as I'm concerned, none of us can say for sure how fast the 8500 core can be taken. For example, The GTS core. The GTS core has a huge range. When it first came out, they were shipping them with 175 MHz stock. Then more and more newer models based off GTS were being released. Now, the TI is at 250 MHz and can be over clocked very easily to 280. That’s over a 100 MHz variation. What would a radeon 8500 at 375 MHz or higher would do? Who says it’s not possible? It would probably kill the GF4. Just something to think about. We haven't seen the beginning of the 8500 core. IT’S BEASTY
 
The drivers will improve performance, but I think it will be a case of to little to late for the 8500. However, cards that are based on the 8500s core are a different story. If for example the RV250 benefits from the work ATI put into the 8500s drivers, it will work out very well for them.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
 
The codecreatures screen shots intrigued me so I went to their website and downloaded the demo. THey have a demo of the engine in action and the editor in action. The engine demo is what Tom has screenshots of. And yes, its really impressive.
I wonder why everyone chooses nature scenes to demo geforce 3 and 4 talent? Surely they can do something equally complicated. Yeah, i know... number of polygons. But there are other ways to show off polygons. BTW if you go to codecult, look in their screenshots section. You will see a wireframe of the nature scene. HOLY CRAP, look at the complexity adn drool.

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
 
But the Ti4200 will soon be released AND costs like the Ti500! You'd save money by that anytime since it is same clock but even more powerful at 199$!
However I want the card that will be able to run Doom 3 at full settings without probs in the future, once that is set, we know these cards ARE powerful. Only Doom3 will prove how far cards can possibly go without dragging the Display Options down...

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
 
the GF4 is still only a DX8 card. There was no increase in functionality to change that. It is even lacking some of the features that the 8500 has to make it a DX8.1 card.

As for AGP 8x, most cards don't use 4x to it's potential, so 8x probably won't give it much of a boost. Also, most chipsets don't support 8x AGP.

RAM Disk is not an instalation step.
 
Since there's so much context on the drivers... could 8.1 be enabled via drivers for the GF4? Is that a possible driver upgrade plan for nvidia?`

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Nature abhors a moron. -- HL Mencken
 
That would be software-emulation. Unless Nvidia didn't have every feature working at the release date and decided to not mention them, but that doesn't make much sense to me.

RAM Disk is not an instalation step.
 
Isn't that basically happened with the release of the GF3 Ti series and that version of the Detonator drivers? (i'm terrible with the version numbers)

-------------------------------------
Nature abhors a moron. -- HL Mencken
 
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