Question Is it better to upgrade my 1050W PSU for my custom watercooled Rig when I buy 2x RTX 2080 Ti for SLI?

[Wolfsblvt]

Hey.

I have a Rig with a custom watercooling loop that I've build in 2015. I am cooling CPU, graphic cards and the mainboard. I've upgraded to 2x 980 Ti SLI a few years ago for gaming, and I loved it.
I bought a bigger PSU, the Seasonic Platinum Series 1050W. It was totally enough for those two cards.

Now I am looking to upgrade again. I guess the CPU is still fine, the rest too, so I am just buying two 2080 Ti with a custom cooler block. (I guess I'll buy a reference design with an AquaComputer block and backplate)
Those cards have a lot more power draw. I've read contradicting statement about how much. But I've read about up to 400 or even 450 Watts if overclocked.

So, I don't want to fry my system or kill some components. My PSU is modular, I can easily replace it with the bigger Seasonic 1300W if needed.
I entered a rough estimation of my setup in the Seasonic Wattage calculator. And I have a lot of stuff inside my rig, the water pump, some cold cathodes, LED lighting, a lot of fans, etc. Not something that draws so much that the spare 100 Watt is not enough?
Or did I calculate the wattage wrong? Not sure if I've entered correct overclocking values.

The important components of my rig listed: (https://geizhals.eu/?cat=WL-446989]https://geizhals.eu/?cat=WL-446989](https://geizhals.eu/?cat=WL-446989
An old picture of my Rig before I've upgraded to the SLI.

I would really love to get some input here!

 

[NightHawkRMX]

A lot has changed since the 980ti days.

Games now have mostly NO SLI scaling, so the second 2080ti a waste of money. Sometimes SLI can cause issues making you disable it to be able to play the game.

I would not buy 2 2080tis.

You can even get by with a 650w for a single 2080ti.

 

[Wolfsblvt]

A lot has changed since the 980ti days.

Games now have mostly NO SLI scaling, so the second 2080ti a waste of money. Sometimes SLI can cause issues making you disable it to be able to play the game.

I would not buy 2 2080tis.

You can get a 650w for a single 2080ti.

I've done my research. People have told my to not do SLI back in the 980 Ti days. People are telling it me today.
SLI support is severely lacking, not that many games support it, or support it poorly.
A lot can be done via manual settings of the SLI profile. I know it's not likely getting my much for quite a few games, but it does work for several other games. So I would really like to got the SLI route. Because why I feel like it would be the best choice for my setup to be able to play games in 1440p 21:9 widescreen with >120 Hz.

Sure, 2080 Ti SLI is maybe over-the-top. But if it's useful for the games I want to play, why not?

It's a nice suggestion, but I don't think ne 2080 Ti alone will provide the power that I want to have in my rig.
That's why I am asking if I should upgrade my PSU for supporting two of those cards.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

The 5 generation old CPU will be the limit in modern games.

Your 1050w PSU is enough as the Seasonic Platinum is on great quality.

 

[mamasan2000]

I would not bother with SLI. Only really useful if you benchmark 3DMark all day.
Outside of that, GPU scaling can be low on 2nd card, 30-40%. You pay 1200 $ but get perf equivalent to a 300$ card added. Less and less games support it. Nvidia and Amd aren't even mentioning it any more. It's getting phased out and has been for years.

I would rather get a Freesync/Gsync monitor. I doubt you will notice a difference between a 120 Hz monitor and a 75 Hz monitor with Adaptive Sync(Gsync/Freesync).

 

[Wolfsblvt]

I would not bother with SLI. Only really useful if you benchmark 3DMark all day.
Outside of that, GPU scaling can be low on 2nd card, 30-40%. You pay 1200 $ but get perf equivalent to a 300$ card added. Less and less games support it. Nvidia and Amd aren't even mentioning it any more. It's getting phased out and has been for years.

I would rather get a Freesync/Gsync monitor. I doubt you will notice a difference between a 120 Hz monitor and a 75 Hz monitor with Adaptive Sync(Gsync/Freesync).

Yeah, that's what it was during the 980 Ti as well, right? I've seen people saying the exact same things. Not worth to buy two 980 Ti for that much money, not enough to gain, waste of money, etc.
I was happy with it. So what, if many games only get 30-40% advantage, it can still be the difference between 90 fps and 120. Or 50 fps and 65 fps.
For quite a few games the performance increase is something like 60-100%, depending on the game and developer.

NVIDIA doesn't mention it and a lot of developers don't support it well becouse it is very rarely used. Because it is expensive. We are talking here about less than 2% of the gamers. I guess even less, I've seen some statistics provided by steam. So yeah. I mean if we are honest, NVIDIA doesn't want to tell people that a single high-end graphics card is not enough for 4K gaming, right?

So I do agree, 1200 $ is a lot of money to 'waste' on a performance improvement. But do tell me, do you know a better way to improve the gameplay and performance on my setup in modern games, so that I can experience gaming how I wont it on my current display?
Sadly there is no better card than the 2080 Ti now, and it still doesn't provide the full 4K experience that everyone wants. (and I don't even have full 4K)
So people say to wait for the next generation, this card will get you the top end perfomance. - But spoiler: It won't. It's the same for every year, and every new generation.
People told my to wait for the next gen when I wanted to buy the 980 Ti. The next card will provide. Did the 1080 Ti?

So I don't want to come off as rude. Really. I get your point, and I am pretty sure you mean well when you tell me SLI is not worth it. But what if I have decided to spend my hard-earned money on exactly this small gain, because this is my dearest hobby and I think it will make me feel better, and maybe even improve my gaming in quite a few games?

And yes, of course I have thought about the advantages of a good monitor. I have switched from my old "normal" 21:9 display with only 60 Hz to a gaming monitor with 21:9 1440p resolution and 144 Hz with Freesync, which by a lot of reviews is compatible with NVIDIAs latest g-sync thingy where they support other non-licensed monitors as well. It's the LG 34GK950F.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

But do tell me, do you know a better way to improve the gameplay and performance on my setup in modern games, so that I can experience gaming how I wont it on my current display?

Upgrade your CPU from a 4 core?

Seriously. The I7 4790k will hold back 1 or 2 2080ti by a lot.

Having 1 2080ti and spending the extra $1200 on an I9, Z390, and 32gb DDR4 makes a lot more sense.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | Intel Core i9-9900K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor | $493.89 @ OutletPC
CPU Cooler | Corsair H115i RGB PLATINUM 97 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler | $149.99 @ Amazon
Motherboard | Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO (WI-FI) ATX LGA1151 Motherboard | $281.99 @ Amazon
Memory | G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory | $149.99 @ Newegg
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | $1075.86
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-09-14 20:05 EDT-0400 |

This plus 1 2080ti will cost less than 2 2080tis and perform much better.

Your old CPU will not allow for 120fps in a lot of games.

 

[Wolfsblvt]

Upgrade your CPU from a 4 core?

Seriously. The I7 4790k will hold back 1 or 2 2080ti by a lot.

Having 1 2080ti and spending the extra $1200 on an I9, Z390, and 32gb DDR4 makes a lot more sense.

I've googled around and read a lot that the i7 4790K is still a pretty good CPU for most cases, especially if it's heavily overclocked. Which I can do, with my watercooling.
Do you have any reviews or comparisons that show me the CPU does slow down modern games a lot?
Would be really helpful, because I am still under the impression that most games' performance is more GPU-heavy that CPU.

Does DDR4 make a difference for gaming?
I have 4x 8GB 2400 MHz RAM, which is 32GB and at the top of the DDR3 range, as far as I know.

// Just seen your new post. I will look at your part list and suggestions.
Though a new Mainboard and CPU block would mean I have to re-plan my whole custom water loop. Which is fine, it will give me a big jump in performance, but is still a lot of work.
I'd have to choose another CPU block then.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

https://www.gpucheck.com/gpu/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti/intel-core-i7-4790k-4-00ghz/
Rough estimate there.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhudkF3GWgQ

 

[NightHawkRMX]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC5BAfwKaVs

 

[Wolfsblvt]

But... doesn't the first video actually say that the i7 4770K does not really bottleneck the new card? And this named CPU is even a little bit worse than mine, especially with overclocked core clock.

Referencing this post: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/upgrade-from-i7-4790k.3470200/#post-20976522

As I said, I am willing to upgrade, if it really leads to something. But I thought a CPU upgrade could wait another year or two, based on the amazing performance of the Haswell i7 generation.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Its a good cpu and has held up great over the years, but its not amazing anymore.

Go an play a really cpu demanding game and you will see the issue.

And if sli does improve performance, you will see even higher cpu utilization.

 

[Wolfsblvt]

Sorry to dig this up, but I am still unsure.

New PSU? SLI worth it? New CPU needed? If the latter, should I rebuild the whole PC, maybe a new one and sell my old one?

I mean the linked page here gives a good comparision between those two CPUs:

It's there, the difference, but it's not that big. A 10% hit. So the 4790K is still good.
But how can I "justify" spending money on a second card, with the not that big SLI improvement, but accept drawbacks from the CPU bottleneck?

Maybe because I wanted to update the GPUs now, and the CPU next year or in two.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I still stand behind upgrading cpu and 1x2080ti. Plus a newer cpu with more cores will make mutitsking and game streaming smoother if you choose yo do tgat.

Even a $200 ryzen 5 3600 will come around the performancr of an i7 8700k while beating an i7 4770k or 4790k in games.

Sli support is tiny as it is, and with amd and nvidia continually removing sli support from more and more cards, sli support is only going to get worse in the future.

 

[Wolfsblvt]

Thing is, CPU upgrade means a new mainboard as well, which would mean new RAMs too. That's a lot of components I need to basically rebuild the technical half of my system. Have to check if the latest mainboard will fit in my case and my custom water loop as well.

I mean of course, I can take case, fans and most of the water loop components with me and build replace everything else, but it's like building a new PC, so why not start from the ground and sell my old one as is?
But that's something I would have to save a bit more money for, because even with just one 2080 Ti it would still come out much higher than what I had planned for just two graphic cards.

It's never easy to decide what and how to upgrade.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

But it doesnt.

I showed you a 9900k, mobo and 32gb ram for less than the price of a 2080ti.

 

[Wolfsblvt]

Sadly I have to take european prices, or more specifically those from Germany.
And yes, you may be right, only those components would be a bit cheaper than a second card. But as I said, I would have to adjust my cooling loop, which will add a few dollars here and there, it sums up. In my current system I have a Formula mainboard, meaning active watercooling for the VRM, for the overclocking capabilities of the 4790K, and because I got a really good deal on it not being much more expensive than the Hero. Was like 20 Euro or something.

The current Formula is much more expensive and I have to decide, because I am pretty sure the additional money is not worth it here. But that means I have to change my tubing and connections, which led me to the idea why I don't want to rebuild the full system, a second PC, and sell the old one, if I am already replacing nearly all of the expensive components. Makes reselling easier, and I can start from clean again. And for that, I need to save a bit money.

But I guess this is something I have to decide for myself, as it's quite off-topic for the original thread topic here already.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

The cheapest 2080ti on PCPP is 1040 euros in Germany.

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | Intel Core i9-9900K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor | €489.00 @ Caseking
Motherboard | MSI MAG Z390 TOMAHAWK ATX LGA1151 Motherboard | €152.90 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory | G.Skill Aegis 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory | €134.56 @ Mindfactory
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | €776.46
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-10-01 22:45 CEST+0200 |


I could see the extra cost of the liquid cooling swap.

Its all up to you. Personally I would certainly go for the 9900k.

 

[Wolfsblvt]

Which is a model with no A-Chip, which should be a no for that card, because of overclocking capabilities.
There aren't that much different models available here in Germany, and most are sold out and don't even have a shipping date. I even talked with resellers and its quite difficult at the moment. The good cards are not available or are heavily overpriced (>1.400€) because of demand and supply and shit.
I am watching prices for those cards for a few weeks now.

I do see your point on the 9900K though and as much as I would like to keep it easy at the moment, I see it as a really needed step for future-proofing. This CPU is amazing. It's expensive as hell, but worth it.
Maybe it's really time to upgrade or restart my build.

I am still thinking about SLI, but maybe I'll go the same way as last time when I started my current build. Go with one card first, to make it cheaper and leave room for other important components, but plan the case design and loop in a way that I can switch to SLI easily. Who knows what the next gen will deliver. Or maybe the prices will fall low enough that I can afford a second card next year without such a heavy hit on the money.