Question Is it just Graphics cards that need full 16 speed PCIE slots?

[spikeysonic]

Is it only GPU graphics cards that need and or benefit from the full 16x speed size 16 PCIe slots?

Is it any other components or add on cards that warrent full speed slots.


Trying to pick motherboards and its how many are 16x out of four how many are 8 speed, 4 or 1 thats a main difference between them

Any other components or are they finebon 8x 4x and 1x speed slots.

 

[Obakasama]

You may have seen mention associated with PCIe 4.0 surrounding the X570 chipset motherboards for the Ryzen 3000 series CPUs that graphics card don't saturate the bandwidth available, but some specific workloads for data transfer might. So there's that to keep in mind about the theoretical maximum data transfer rate associated with PCIe lanes, not just the physical size of the slot.

Also multiple graphics card set ups have worked on x8/x8 configurations.

 

[spikeysonic]

Does that mean its more the likes of a thunderbolt and usb add on card that need 16 slots? surely said groahics cards would work better on 16x/16 x slots.

Anything else needs the full speed slots?

 

[Obakasama]

Without explicitly checking on the theoretical data transfer limits of each device I would say no. Let's take USB as an example. I could have a USB 3 port and even a USB 3 drive, but the drive doesn't reach maximum theoretical data transfer speeds. The 'circuit' is only as fast as the slowest component, if that makes any sense.

Most of the add-in cards I'm aware of rarely require a full physical x16 slot to install, so the maximum data transfer rates on those are even lower than the x16's.

Depending on why you're asking the initial question, the theoretical maximum data transfer rates may or may not be of any relevance.

 

[spikeysonic]

Reason is picking motherboards... Some have all four size 16 pcei slots
Some they are the size 16 but only 8 or 4 speed.

So how important is it to pick a motherboard with all four pcei slots size 16 and speed sixteen and most likly more expensive and lacking in other areas.

or is it only one item would need it and the others are fine being slower slots.


Ie not worth the extra £100-£150 if never goign to need or benefit from them or loosing out on other features.

But worht it if lots of add on cards etc benefit from them

 

[Obakasama]

I see.

There's a missing bit of knowledge there which might help a bit. PCIe lanes are dependent upon two things: the CPU and the motherboard chipset.
Suppose the CPU has a maximum of 24 PCIe lanes available to it and the chipset has 4 PCIe lanes, it doesn't matter that the motherboard has 4 x16 length slots. The CPU and chipset combined can only allow for 28 PCIe lanes.

The PCIe lanes the CPU are responsible for are the fastest, and the main x16 slot on motherboards are direct to the CPU. However, this isn't a set number. A two graphics card set up may mean the original x16 lanes are split between two x16 slots as x8/x8, and a three card set up might become x8/x4/x4 between three x16 slots.

For those whose workload does depend on the number of lanes (and I personally wouldn't consider gaming amongst such workloads), they would need to go to the HEDT platforms like Threadripper or Intel's current x299 for more PCIe lanes. As such it isn't a matter of just a better motherboard but a different ecosystem, if that makes any sense.

I would add that multiple graphics card set ups for gaming now is fairly limited, and the vast majority of games don't scale well with multiple graphics cards (if at all). The advice for this case scenario is purchase the best singular graphics card you can afford.

EDIT: for more accurate information have a look at the following.
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3313-what-is-a-chipset-amd-vs-intel-2018
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus

 

[spikeysonic]

I see.

There's a missing bit of knowledge there which might help a bit. PCIe lanes are dependent upon two things: the CPU and the motherboard chipset.
Suppose the CPU has a maximum of 24 PCIe lanes available to it and the chipset has 4 PCIe lanes, it doesn't matter that the motherboard has 4 x16 length slots. The CPU and chipset combined can only allow for 28 PCIe lanes.

The PCIe lanes the CPU are responsible for are the fastest, and the main x16 slot on motherboards are direct to the CPU. However, this isn't a set number. A two graphics card set up may mean the original x16 lanes are split between two x16 slots as x8/x8, and a three card set up might become x8/x4/x4 between three x16 slots.

For those whose workload does depend on the number of lanes (and I personally wouldn't consider gaming amongst such workloads), they would need to go to the HEDT platforms like Threadripper or Intel's current x299 for more PCIe lanes. As such it isn't a matter of just a better motherboard but a different ecosystem, if that makes any sense.

I would add that multiple graphics card set ups for gaming now is fairly limited, and the vast majority of games don't scale well with multiple graphics cards (if at all). The advice for this case scenario is purchase the best singular graphics card you can afford.

EDIT: for more accurate information have a look at the following.
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3313-what-is-a-chipset-amd-vs-intel-2018
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus

This WOULD be on a threadripper TRX40 board, been looking at the

Asus TRX40 Rog Strix £493 Which has 3 x PCIe4.0 x16 and 1 x PCIe 4.0 x42.5gb lan
with 7x 3.2 gen 2 USB and reuptatio of reliability


Gigabyte TRX40 Designare £623 Which has 2 x PCIe 4.0 x16 and 2 x PCIe 4.0 x16 (8 bandwith) and 1 x PCIe 4.0 x1 plus 2x gigbyte lan (adds up to 2.4ghz) and on board 4 m.2 ssd slots

But this comes with a Thunderbolt addon card and a 4 x M.2 SSD addon card


Whilst the ASROC TRX40 Creator £443(but only 8 phase. All the rest 16) 10 gig ethernet but only 4 usb 3.2 gen 1 and 2 gen 2 usb


and the MSI TRX 40 Creator£679 has 4 x PCIe 4.0 x 16 and 10gb eithernet, comes with a 4x m2 ssd add on card



Whilst the ASRoc Taichi £479 also comes with a add 4 m.2 ssd drive add on card, 2.5 gigbyte internet 4 x 3.2 gen 1 usb 2 x 3.2gen 2 USB and PCIe 3 x PCIe 4.0 16x and 1 PCIe 4.0 x 1




Im guessing by speed it means 16 lanes


If you see what I mean above in terms of how important is all four having 16 lane slots

 

[Obakasama]

That doesn't really change what I was trying to explain in my previous post except for the numbers used in the example; it depends on the use case scenario. So whether it is worth the additional money, for me, is entirely dependent on the use case scenario.

Personally I'm not familiar with use case scenarios which take advantage of such a high data transfer rate, hopefully others can comment once you've explained your intended use case for all these PCIe lanes you allude to needing. Importance is a relative concept predicated on need.

 

[spikeysonic]

Im trying to work out what would be needed or useful. Looking for a content creation machine i can upgrade over time. CAD, 3D printing, editing, visual effects, 3D Animation, 3D modelling, characters, podcasting etc. Starting with one GPU may upgrade to more later . If I get the Gigabyte board it comes with a Thunderbolt, double usb c and display oort Addon card. A 4x m.2ssd addon card. May get a video editing card. Or sound card or a 10gb net card in future. Not sure on those or anything else as new to it all. Not sure what i will need

 

[Obakasama]

Honestly, I think you've placed too much emphasis upon one aspect of how a PC works and for the things you mention, with respect to software, the PCIe lanes availability is one of the last things I would consider.

CAD and 3D modeling (I do use a bit of Blender for comparison) is more dependent upon CPU, GPU and RAM. I wouldn't be concerning myself with how many PCIe lanes I have available to me when those components are more important for the project I am working on. Eg. does my graphics card have enough onboard RAM (VRAM) to manage the texture files this particular scene uses? Can my CPU smoothly make the changes I make to the scene and render a preview quickly? Will my CPU and/or GPU render this scene fast enough to my satisfaction?

Editing? From a video editing perspective, I think it's the only one where potentially a large amount of data is moved about. (And even then I'm not sure if it's one of those which fully takes advantage of PCIe 4.0.) But like with 3D work I'd look to CPU, GPU and RAM and also add in fast storage for a quicker work flow.

Podcasting? No experience, but I don't expect any heavy usage of PCIe lanes. And plenty of people do it without a heavily specced PC.

3D printers from what I see can connect to a PC, if that's how you want to use it, via USB, Wifi or ethernet. There's no need for additional PCIe lanes for it.

Do you need all that extra connectivity you mention? Only you can answer this question and at the moment you don't sound certain as to what your requirements actually are beyond wanting to future proof (to some extent). By all means, choose a motherboard with the most connectivity available so you have the option to use them when and if the time comes; but don't concern yourself too much with the theoretical maximum data transfer rates the PCIe standards state at the cost of other aspects of a build. As it is, it doesn't sound like your intended/potential use case will utilise those sort of figures.

When you are ready, post in the build thread with your intended use case and budget and I'm sure one of the resident builders can direct and recommend a set of specifications suitable for you.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Does that mean its more the likes of a thunderbolt and usb add on card that need 16 slots? surely said groahics cards would work better on 16x/16 x slots.

Anything else needs the full speed slots?

Also 4-up M.2 NVME interface adapter cards will need them. Since each NVME needs 4 lanes, 4 NVME on one adapter would need 16 lanes available to provide full bandwidth support.

I think there are also some extreme high speed, like 100Gb or so, network interface cards that can use that kind of bandwidth. But with that it's getting into pretty rarified specialty and scientific applications that will also include ultra-high speed, or a huge number of channels at moderate speed, for data acquisition .

 

[spikeysonic]

Honestly, I think you've placed too much emphasis upon one aspect of how a PC works and for the things you mention, with respect to software, the PCIe lanes availability is one of the last things I would consider.

CAD and 3D modeling (I do use a bit of Blender for comparison) is more dependent upon CPU, GPU and RAM. I wouldn't be concerning myself with how many PCIe lanes I have available to me when those components are more important for the project I am working on. Eg. does my graphics card have enough onboard RAM (VRAM) to manage the texture files this particular scene uses? Can my CPU smoothly make the changes I make to the scene and render a preview quickly? Will my CPU and/or GPU render this scene fast enough to my satisfaction?

Editing? From a video editing perspective, I think it's the only one where potentially a large amount of data is moved about. (And even then I'm not sure if it's one of those which fully takes advantage of PCIe 4.0.) But like with 3D work I'd look to CPU, GPU and RAM and also add in fast storage for a quicker work flow.

Podcasting? No experience, but I don't expect any heavy usage of PCIe lanes. And plenty of people do it without a heavily specced PC.

3D printers from what I see can connect to a PC, if that's how you want to use it, via USB, Wifi or ethernet. There's no need for additional PCIe lanes for it.

Do you need all that extra connectivity you mention? Only you can answer this question and at the moment you don't sound certain as to what your requirements actually are beyond wanting to future proof (to some extent). By all means, choose a motherboard with the most connectivity available so you have the option to use them when and if the time comes; but don't concern yourself too much with the theoretical maximum data transfer rates the PCIe standards state at the cost of other aspects of a build. As it is, it doesn't sound lik:e your intended/potential use case will utilise those sort of figures.

When you are ready, post in the build thread with your intended use case and budget and I'm sure one of the resident builders can direct and recommend a set of specifications suitable for you.

Case choices :

• Fractal Design Define R6, White, Tempered Glass
• Corsair Graphite Series 780T White Full Tower Case
• Be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 rev.2, Orange
• Fractal Design Meshify S2, White, Tempered Glass

I like the Corsair and Be Quiet but are the others better?

• (The likes of Scan and PC specialist only offer the Fractal design Define R6 withtou a window in their configurators. )

Processor

Threadripper 3960x

Motherboard

• Asus TRX40 Rog Strix Gaming
• Gigabyte TRX40 Designare + Thunderbolt card + 4x 4 th gen PCIe M2 SSD Addon cards
• MSI TRX40 Creator + 4x 4 th gen PCIe M2 SSD Addon cards
• ASRoc Taichi + 4x 4 th gen PCIe M2 SSD Addon cards

Been favouring the Gigabyte Designare due to the Total Thunderbolt and PCIe Gen 4.0 4x M.2 SSd add on cards, Dual Bios but it had only 2x 16 lane 16 size PCI slots, 2 x8 lane 16 size and a 1x slot as opposed to all 4 16 lane speed. Most custom suppliers only favour ASUS. Mixed into on MSI relaibility and bios. Any help here would be appreciated as this has been oen of the biggest decision problems.

Cooler

Dep on supplier been looking at

• Corsair Hydro Series H100i RGB PLATINUM
• Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360 RGB TR4 Edition, 360mm All-in-One Hydro CPU Cooler,
• Corsair Hydro Series H115i PRO RGB, 280mm All-In-One Hydro CPU Cooler
• Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 FAN CPU cooler
• CorsairH150I PRO CPU cooler

GPU Graphics Card

This has been another ream decision problem:

• Quadro RTX 4000
• EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti BLOWER GAMING 11GB GDDR6

Solidworks appears to be the main 'fly in the ointment' fussy fKR demanding a quadro as for most others the Geforce seems to be a btter choice for use with:

• Solidworks, Vectorworks, Rhino, Mari, Modo, Google Sketchup, Autocad
• Maya, 3d Studio Max, Katana, Cinema 4 D, Softimage
• Mudbox, Z-Brush,
• Blender, V Ray, Renderman, Encoder,
• Adobe Premier, After Effects, Nuke, Audition, Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign

So a mix of CAD, Media Creation, 3d Animation, 3D Character Creation, 3D Modeling, Podcasting, Editing, Visual Effects, Rendering, Encoding, both single and multi thread.

Operating System Drive SSD drive.

One of the following NVMe

• 1 TB 4th Gen Corsair Force
• 1 TB 4th Gen Gigabyte Aurus
• 1 TB 4th Gen Seagate Firecus 560

Storage Drive

Raid 1 Pair of

• 4tb Seagate Ironwolf Hard Drives

Have a fair bit of data and looking for a primary backup, will look into a netwrk drive and online backup later

DVD Writer

ASUS x24 DVD/CD Re-Writer

Not that fussed as long as one does the job and fits in the case

___-

Custom Build companies top choices

Scan Uk, PC Specialist and Amari are top choices for a custom build any experience with them?

Scan and amari offer 3 years RTB and 1 year onsite warrantee

I could most likly build it but research shows not much saving if any as the companies can buy in bulk and somewhat vervous about breakign th £4-700 pound board and £1350 processor with clumbsey handling first time... would rather practice on a £100 model I can f up first.

 

[Obakasama]

Haven't heard of Amari, though Scan usually has a good reputation but as with any company it really does depend on who you ask. One friend of mine swears by them and has configured system after system; another said it was the worst experience they ever had.

I'll only comment on the graphics card. If your use is leaning towards or is professional usage, then I'd imagine the Quadro would be more suitable. The drivers alone should make it more reliable for work purposes. The consumer cards do now have the option of a creator driver rather than just a gaming one, though I've never tried them myself.

 

[bryanc723]

Yes, some things other than GPUs use the bandwidth. Mostly network cards and things like that with fiber optics. Things most people don't have. The only real reason I would see you needing them would be to run multiple GPU's, which I have heard is kinda going out of style. Digital miners could use them etc.
I would say 1 that offers 2 x16 lanes would be plenty for the more intensive home or business user. You will probably never use the full bandwidth of both lanes at the same time.