Question Is it worth to upgrade GPU on this system for gaming?

[Tomas1020]

Hello everyone,

I've had this gaming PC for years now and it's finally reaching its limits it seems... The setup is as follows:

• GIGABYTE GTX 1080 Ti OC
• Intel i7-8700K OC to 4.9 GHz
• 16 GB RAM DDR4
• ASRock Z370 Extreme4 Mobo
• Seasonic Focus Gold 750W
• Corsair H115i AiO water cooler
• Corsair Obsidian 750D
• Win 10 Pro

I've been using this setup with dual monitor setup (primary for gaming 4K 32" and secondary old 1080p 24" for convenience, both 60 Hz), mostly for Microsoft Flight Simulator, sim racing games, and other games too.

At first, I wanted to build a completely new beast PC, but currently I'm a bit tight on budget, so I can't go all in and spend $5000 or so on a brand new gaming PC. But I am thinking of upgrading just the GPU because that's the gaming bottleneck in my opinion, especially in Microsoft Flight Simulator. And downgrading from 4K isn't an option for me.

I wanted to ask you if that makes sense for the system above, and if so, which GPU would you recommend me. The 4070 Ti seems like a good bang for a buck, or I could even go for the 4080. My main concern is that the other parts (especially CPU) don't kill the GPU potential.

Thank you very much in advance for any insights.

Cheers,
Tomas

 

[Aeacus]

Microsoft Flight Simulator

It is CPU bound game and upgrading GPU won't give you any more FPS. So, if you only play this game, upgrade CPU instead. Namely, new CPU-MoBo-RAM combo.

 

[Tomas1020]

It is CPU bound game and upgrading GPU won't give you any more FPS. So, if you only play this game, upgrade CPU instead. Namely, new CPU-MoBo-RAM combo.

Yes, it's a known thing that the flight simulator titles are CPU bound, but I find it strange that my GPU is maxed out all the time and the CPU is barely at 50 %. What's going on there then?

 

[Aeacus]

but I find it strange that my GPU is maxed out all the time and the CPU is barely at 50 %. What's going on there then?

Just for testing, drop the in-game resolution to 1440p or 1080p and look if your GPU is still maxed out with same FPS. Since lowering the reso puts less load on GPU.
But if FPS doesn't increase when lowering reso, then you're restricted behind what CPU is capable of delivering.

 

[Tomas1020]

Just for testing, drop the in-game resolution to 1440p or 1080p and look if your GPU is still maxed out with same FPS. Since lowering the reso puts less load on GPU.
But if FPS doesn't increase when lowering reso, then you're restricted behind what CPU is capable of delivering.

Just tried downgrading to 1080p. The GPU usage went way lower (30-40 %), but the FPS is the same, mostly hurting when panning around the cockpit, coming back to 10-15... Same as at 4K. But the CPU isn't maxed out either, its usage is still the same.

So basically, nothing is maxing out, but I get bad FPS and stutters.

 

[sonofjesse]

No need to spend 5k.

You can build something pretty good for like 2k. Sell yours for X. And come out not too bad.

If you have MC close check out the 7800x3d combo deal.

 

[Aeacus]

16 GB RAM DDR4

Single stick? Dual 8GB sticks? Or quad 4GB sticks?

Also, RAM frequency is rated to what? And what the actual frequency is when you check it from Windows (e.g using HWinfo64)?

But the CPU isn't maxed out either, its usage is still the same.

There are far more applications + OS itself that CPU has to keep tabs on and running. Thus, one PC game can not utilize CPU at it's fullest. More like there is restriction on application (game), on how much CPU power it can get, without hindering all other tasks that CPU has to deal with.

 

[Eximo]

Most game engines aren't capable of fully taxing a CPU. Look at the cores. If there is one that is maxed out, there is where the primary game thread is running and is the limiting factor.

50% CPU usage could be 100% on Core 0, and 40% on the rest of the cores. Average is still 50%.

 

[Tomas1020]

No need to spend 5k.

You can build something pretty good for like 2k. Sell yours for X. And come out not too bad.

If you have MC close check out the 7800x3d combo deal.

This is probably true, however I always want to get the best, so it lasts many years ahead .

Single stick? Dual 8GB sticks? Or quad 4GB sticks?

Also, RAM frequency is rated to what? And what the actual frequency is when you check it from Windows (e.g using HWinfo64)?


There are far more applications + OS itself that CPU has to keep tabs on and running. Thus, one PC game can not utilize CPU at it's fullest. More like there is restriction on application (game), on how much CPU power it can get, without hindering all other tasks that CPU has to deal with.

Dual 8GB at 3200 MHz (G.Skill Trident), showing between that and 3500 in CPU-Z.

Most game engines aren't capable of fully taxing a CPU. Look at the cores. If there is one that is maxed out, there is where the primary game thread is running and is the limiting factor.

50% CPU usage could be 100% on Core 0, and 40% on the rest of the cores. Average is still 50%.

None of the cores are maxed out, however the temperatures seem to be out of charts, reaching 100 °C. Maybe I should check the cooling and reapply the thermal paste?

 

[CelicaGT]

As an MSFS2020 user the Sims bottlenecks go well beyond CPU/GPU. You can be main thread limited without taxing any single core fully. Basically in this case you can't look at the normal stats we would in any other game and draw a decent conclusion. I have a Ryzen7 5800X3D paired with an RTX 4070Ti (A common and well regarded setup for MSFS) and I STILL get stutters panning and when taking of or landing in certain areas. I am at 1440p 60fps capped. The consensus in the official forums (and backed up by Asobo) is that the SIM is the bottleneck. There's simply so much going on that nearly every system is waiting for something.

Anyways for settings:

-Your current system has enough juice to run the sim at high/ultra at 1080p 60fps native as long as you keep certain settings in mind (It is not 4k capable, definitely 1440p with upscaling).

-Render Scale at 100
-Keep Terrain LOD at or below 200.
-Grasses, Trees, Buildings at High (No visual difference to Ultra)
-Volumetric Clouds to High (You can probably manage Ultra but it's up to you whether it's worth the performance hit.
-Glass Cockpit Refresh Rate at Low or at most Medium. This is a very CPU intensive setting.
-Everything else can probably be at Ultra or whatever its max is, or to your visual preference.

More to consider:

Consider DX12(Beta), clear your Community Folder after every update, delete your Rolling Cache regularly and ALWAYS after an update. Whether or not you need the cache is...well some seem fine without, others claim they need it. As well the Sim should be on an SSD, preferably by itself. Bloody thing gets bigger every World Update and TB SSD's are still pretty cheap.

More Again:

Consider FSR2 if you aren't using it, though at 1080p your current rig is more than capable, if a little weak on the CPU side.

And another thing:

Get those CPU temps in check, that is absolutely hurting you.

Something to consider:

A relative runs the sim on my old 4790K, with my old RTX3060 12GB (Roughly equivalent to your 1080Ti) on an SSD and with 32gb of DDR3 at 1600Mhz. At the settings above it runs smooth at 1080p steady 60fps (excepting those all too common stutters).

 

[Aeacus]

however the temperatures seem to be out of charts, reaching 100 °C. Maybe I should check the cooling and reapply the thermal paste?

Not maybe but certainly. 100C is CPU thermal throttle, borderline CPU cooking up. And with thermal throttle, you also will have CPU frequency reduction, which in turn, reduces CPU performance.

Set fans on your AIO to run 100% and also make sure that the pump itself is running 100% as well. Besides repaste, this is the best you could do in terms of CPU cooling. Either that, or replace CPU cooler all together.

You want CPU temps to be below 80C under full load. 80-90C is too hot, 90-100C is thermal throttle and 100+C is CPU burnt to crisp.

 

[CelicaGT]

A little advice if you consider a new build:

-Strongly consider an X3D CPU, the cache helps enormously in Sims, especially this one.
-Regarding the above. Anything is fine really as long as it has 8 cores (6 works too but 8 is better), because you are NOT considering anything beyond 60fps in this title. It adds nothing except $$ to AMDs and Nvidias bottom line. At 60fps it is smooth as silk.
-4K in this title is a lofty goal. Bring cash, and don't be fooled by all those YouTubers. They probably have Traffic shut off and a Local Cache set up for Photogrammetry.
-32GB of RAM is recommended.
-Frame Gen should not be considered as a selling point on your GPU purchase. The implementation here is janky and the input lag is ridiculous in my experience (up to 0.5 seconds)
-DLSS Quality works....OK. There's definitely some artifacting but it's gotten less noticeable after they updated the DLSS version a few Sim updates back.
-Game favours Nvidia GPUs it seems, but AMD fares well also. Buy what you like while considering the following.....
-VRAM, 12GB or more at 1080p or 1440p. 16GB or more at 4K. I am at 1440p and it used 10GB to 11GB regularly.
-Temper your expectations, this Sim never left Beta in all reality. Even the best rigs suffer stutters and hitching in certai areas. It is normal.

 

[CelicaGT]

Not maybe but certainly. 100C is CPU thermal throttle, borderline CPU cooking up. And with thermal throttle, you also will have CPU frequency reduction, which in turn, reduces CPU performance.

Set fans on your AIO to run 100% and also make sure that the pump itself is running 100% as well. Besides repaste, this is the best you could do in terms of CPU cooling. Either that, or replace CPU cooler all together.

You want CPU temps to be below 80C under full load. 80-90C is too hot, 90-100C is thermal throttle and 100+C is CPU burnt to crisp.

That AIO may be toast. MSFS doesn't hit the CPU hard enough to see 100C on a CPU with a functioning cooler. My 5800X3D hovers around 50C to 60C with an old AF Hyper212 on it.

 

[Tomas1020]

From what I see here, I think that my CPU AIO cooler might actually be the primary issue. It's been my friend for 5 years, so perhaps it's time to replace it . Do you guys have any tips for AIO water coolers?

Hopefully the CPU itself is okay, after being exposed to those temperatures (assuming months).

 

[sonofjesse]

Don't use AIO's. Use a big air cooler like peerless 120. Cheap, lasts forever, if it does die its just a fan replacement and your back on the road.
I see far less issues with air coolers at 5+ years then AIO's at 5+ years.

 

[Aeacus]

Do you guys have any tips for AIO water coolers?

As said above, AIOs don't last long. Normal ones 2-3 years, high-end ones 4-5 years. Also, AIO costs a lot and when it dies (usually pump), then you have to buy whole new thing.

So, air cooler is far better. Cheaper and cooling performance is essentially same, since both are still cooled by ambient air.

As of which to pick: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE is current king in air coolers, beating former king Noctua NH-D15 in: performance (better cooling), noise (less noise) and price (far cheaper);
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/hY...sassin-120-se-6617-cfm-cpu-cooler-pa120-se-d3
Note: CPU cooler is 155mm tall.

Review:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm4hyIHe1PM

 

[Tomas1020]

Thank you! I decided to go for the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE ARGB. Should arrive later this week. It seems that the heat sink is made of aluminium. Is it true that liquid metal cooling paste should NOT be used on aluminium?

 

[Eximo]

Thank you! I decided to go for the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE ARGB. Should arrive later this week. It seems that the heat sink is made of aluminium. Is it true that liquid metal cooling paste should NOT be used on aluminium?

Correct. Nor Copper really.

Liquid metals like gallium form amalgamations with other metals which basically ends up removing metal from the heatsink surfaces.

A standard thermal paste is much more suitable. Most people restrict liquid metal to underneath the CPU heatspreader.