Question Is it worth upgrading now (End of 2023) ?

[okyys]

Hello and happy New Year to everyone!

As I had some free time at the end of the year, I have done some research (which I haven't done for a while) on new CPU's, motherboards, chipsets, RAM's, etc. 95% of time, I need my PC for gaming
The idea was to upgrade to something much more recent, so, it would include changing my motherboard, CPU, RAM and CPU cooler. Why? Because I thought my current setup is holding me back in terms of FPS in games, because I have Gigabyte Aorus Master 3080 Ti graphics card working together with ASUS Maximus X Hero + i7 8700K (clocked at 4.9Ghz all cores) + G.Skill Ripjaws V (F4-3600C14D-16GVKA) RAM. And the CPU cooler is Noctua NH-D15S. I play on a 2k monitor.

My first surprise was, that at 2K and 4K it doesn't matter that much, if I play on my old 8700K or switch to, for example, Ryzen 7 7800X3D. In almost every new game bottleneck becomes GPU at those resolutions. I also don't see a point in changing all those components, if 8700K does 150 fps, while 7800X3D does 250. In 99% cases, I am good with anything between steady 60 and 100 fps. Remember, I play on 2K.

The problem for me is, when I already can't keep those 60 fps together with good graphics settings, So, it drops below that, I start experiencing some stutters in game, etc. Nowadays, it starts to happen more and more often, so I had the idea of upgrading. I live in Europe and in euros, I was willing to spend around 1800 eur max on motherboard, CPU, RAM and cooler.

So, knowing all that, the short question is: Is it worth upgrading all those components now? Or wait for something else to come out? As for the graphics card, I have already decided to wait for 5xxx series from Nvidia and skip 4xxx. And also my PSU doesn't require upgrading, as I already have Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 (1200w).

And now, something that I found out after my research:
As I was always with Intel CPU's, first thing to check was 14900KF. It was a lot of frustration. It runs hot, it uses a lot of power, it performs worse in almost every game, compared to 7800X3D. As I said before, the difference minimizes at 2K and 4K, but 7800X3D still wins. As with the FPS, with power consumption and heat. Ok, I started looking towards 7800X3D and 7950X3D. And I got even more frustrated with AM5 socket motherboards.. problems with RAM compatibility, long bootup times, not being able to post at all, crashes, restarts... I started switching back to 14900KF, searched a little bit more, and got stuck...

So, now I am here, writing this post. Of course, I am also confused about the trend for motherboard prices nowadays. You want more USB ports on the back? Pay 100 eur more. You want unlocked multiplier? Pay 150 eur more. You want 10 GBps ethernet port? Add another 100 eur. Want post code display on motherboard? Sorry, that's only reserved for elite bords nowadays, so, pay 600+ eur. That's a nonsense...

So, what do you guys suggest me to do? All I want, is to have a little bit more FPS in newest games..

 

[faalin]

Im in the same boat as you, I have a 8700k OC'd to 5.1GHz all core. Ive been looking at upgrading the first of january looking at the 14700k, keeping my 2080 ti till Nvidia's 5000 series comes out.

My thoughts on it.....

The 8700k was released in Q4 2017 so the build is 6 years old. Im planning on a 5-6 year build again.
Looking at this link from anandtech the 14900k only get around 10FPS more then the 14700k at most in games.

As much as i want to go with an AM5 build for the CPU upgrade ability i just dont want to have to fuss around with it when i get home. I work for a smallish company with 3 building on the same road, dealing with network and computer issues all day long is not something i want to come home to and have to deal with the same issues. I have a 3600x on a Asus Prime x570 at work and once a month i have to play with as it refuses to boot.

Looking back to the intel LGA 1700 socket is now dead as intel will be moving to the LGA 1851 socket around Q3 in 2024. So do i buy a 14th gen on a dead socket and keep it for 5-6 years, meaning i will probably jump the entire LGA 1851 socket. Or wait a year and buy into the LGA 1851 socket and 15th gen CPU which would give me a little CPU upgrade ability and put the build closer to Nvidia's 5000 serries cards.


This is the build i have been looking at for the past 2 month https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LDMBFs Its actually the same build i did for 2 of our cad guys, I used the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE cooler and pared it with the RTX A4500 gpu. Im only going with the Noctua D12L because im putting my computer in a 4U server case and need the shorter cooler.


Its really up to you to decide if the FPS and graphics settings are not enough for you during gaming. If your not fully wanting to pull the trigger on a new build you could look at trying to source a used 9900k, it would probably hold you over till the new 15th gen and 5000 series cards.

 

[okyys]

The "end of life" for socket LGA 1700, was exactly what got me stuck, after I decided, not to play a lottery with AM5 socket.. I just want to buy those components, put them together, fine tune a little bit, and start using them. I don't want to worry all the time before pressing the Power button. Also not planning to overclock it every day or update BIOS every week.
Anyway, thanks for answer. Probably the best thing now, is to wait a little bit more and see, what happens with AM5 and LGA 1851.

 

[turtletarget111]

You can go to any product and read nothing but negative reviews. The fact of the matter is that these generalized cases of "long boot times" and "crashes" are rare, and even fewer are legitimately the fault of the CPU or motherboard. There isn't enough context to say things like, "Well, Intel CPUs run hot but AMD CPUs flat out don't work." There are issues with every product, but if you go looking for people complaining about their computers, you will find them. If you look at all reviews, both negative and positive, you will find the vast majority of customers are satisfied with their experience on AM5. I'm not trying to sway you from team blue to team red, but if AM5 will fit your use case more, then you should go for it.

As far as actually upgrading, the 7800X and 3D models received massive price cuts when 14th generation Intel released. AM5 motherboards and DDR5 memory has become more affordable than ever. AM5 is still growing, so you can always upgrade your CPU down the line when AMD releases 8000 series chips. You may actually have to upgrade your power supply to comply with the new ATX 3.0 specification that is beginning to roll out. If your current PSU is already ATX 3.0 certified, then you'll be ready for Nvidia's 5000 series cards. Hope this helped, take care.

 

[geofelt]

Worth is something only YOU can determine.

If you have the budget now and the need/desire now, buy now.
If you wait for the next best thing, you will wait forever.

There is always a limiting factor in games.
Some, like sims,mmo and strategy games tend to be cpu limited. particularly in the single thread performance of the master thread.

Some games, notably multiplayer respond to many threads. Otherwise, it is hard to make effective use of more than 8 threads. Start up task manager/logical processor view.
While gaming, how many of your 12 threads are fully used?

Fast action shooters, and high resolution gaming will be limited by the graphics card.

Try this simple test now:
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

Tom's gpu hierarchy chart is a reasonable way to gauge gpu performance.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html

The cost of a 4090 card seems daunting to me.
But, you can expect that the top 5000 series card will cost even more.

Don't know what to tell you there.

Then, also, you need a fast processor to generate those frames.
You have available, today, a well tested i9-14900K that is miles ahead of your 8700K in single thread performance.
Run the cpu-z bench on your 8700K.
You should get a score like 468:
The i9-14900K will score 967:
https://valid.x86.fr/bench/utttjz

Today, nobody overclocks for games.
The motherboard makers are very aggressive in boosting the turbo performance.
That is exactly what you want for games.
Do not believe the scare assertions that the 14900k is hot chip.
It can be if you have an app that can fully load all 24 cores.
Games will use a small portion of that.

Your noctua NH-D15s will be sufficient. Noctua will send you free a lga1700 mounting kit.
Some things to review; 14900k is applicable:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNFgswzTvyc

Core i9-13900K Cooling Guide: Testing Intel's Flagship With Budget Air and Big AIOs

The Core i9-13900K can push even the most capable liquid coolers to their limits, but you don’t lose that much performance if you go with budget-priced air cooling.

www.tomshardware.com

FWIW, I can run a cpu-Z stress test without issue with my specs.
Yes, there are occasional momentary throttles, but that is how things are designed to do.

Don't go cheap and buy the 14900KF, if you ever have a gpu issue, the integrated graphics will be a lifesaver.

I am not hot for the X3d processors. Any other work than a single game will not perform as well as the base processor would.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Hello and happy New Year to everyone!

As I had some free time at the end of the year, I have done some research (which I haven't done for a while) on new CPU's, motherboards, chipsets, RAM's, etc. 95% of time, I need my PC for gaming
The idea was to upgrade to something much more recent, so, it would include changing my motherboard, CPU, RAM and CPU cooler. Why? Because I thought my current setup is holding me back in terms of FPS in games, because I have Gigabyte Aorus Master 3080 Ti graphics card working together with ASUS Maximus X Hero + i7 8700K (clocked at 4.9Ghz all cores) + G.Skill Ripjaws V (F4-3600C14D-16GVKA) RAM. And the CPU cooler is Noctua NH-D15S. I play on a 2k monitor.

My first surprise was, that at 2K and 4K it doesn't matter that much, if I play on my old 8700K or switch to, for example, Ryzen 7 7800X3D. In almost every new game bottleneck becomes GPU at those resolutions. I also don't see a point in changing all those components, if 8700K does 150 fps, while 7800X3D does 250. In 99% cases, I am good with anything between steady 60 and 100 fps. Remember, I play on 2K.

The problem for me is, when I already can't keep those 60 fps together with good graphics settings, So, it drops below that, I start experiencing some stutters in game, etc. Nowadays, it starts to happen more and more often, so I had the idea of upgrading. I live in Europe and in euros, I was willing to spend around 1800 eur max on motherboard, CPU, RAM and cooler.

So, knowing all that, the short question is: Is it worth upgrading all those components now? Or wait for something else to come out? As for the graphics card, I have already decided to wait for 5xxx series from Nvidia and skip 4xxx. And also my PSU doesn't require upgrading, as I already have Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 (1200w).

And now, something that I found out after my research:
As I was always with Intel CPU's, first thing to check was 14900KF. It was a lot of frustration. It runs hot, it uses a lot of power, it performs worse in almost every game, compared to 7800X3D. As I said before, the difference minimizes at 2K and 4K, but 7800X3D still wins. As with the FPS, with power consumption and heat. Ok, I started looking towards 7800X3D and 7950X3D. And I got even more frustrated with AM5 socket motherboards.. problems with RAM compatibility, long bootup times, not being able to post at all, crashes, restarts... I started switching back to 14900KF, searched a little bit more, and got stuck...

So, now I am here, writing this post. Of course, I am also confused about the trend for motherboard prices nowadays. You want more USB ports on the back? Pay 100 eur more. You want unlocked multiplier? Pay 150 eur more. You want 10 GBps ethernet port? Add another 100 eur. Want post code display on motherboard? Sorry, that's only reserved for elite bords nowadays, so, pay 600+ eur. That's a nonsense...

So, what do you guys suggest me to do? All I want, is to have a little bit more FPS in newest games..

Hey there,

What monitor do you have?

If it's just some stuttering here and there, because of FPS drops why not use adaptive sync on your monitor.? Freesync or G-sync will work well with most monitors. It will stop the stuttering.

As with the FPS, with power consumption and heat. Ok, I started looking towards 7800X3D and 7950X3D. And I got even more frustrated with AM5 socket motherboards.. problems with RAM compatibility, long bootup times, not being able to post at all, crashes, restarts.

Where did you get this information from? That is not the case. As with any new build, Intel or AMD, either systems can have those issues.

One of the benefits of the Zen 4/AM5 systems are it's longevity. You will get new CPU support for probably 3 more cycles. IMO, AMD is the only way to go atm. I would certainly take a 7800x3d over any of Intel 12th/13th/14th Gen CPU's. They are power hogs and not very efficient. They run hot. Similar with higher end AMD sku's. The 7800x3d is the sweet spot. Max FPS from any GPU.

So, now I am here, writing this post. Of course, I am also confused about the trend for motherboard prices nowadays. You want more USB ports on the back? Pay 100 eur more. You want unlocked multiplier? Pay 150 eur more. You want 10 GBps ethernet port? Add another 100 eur. Want post code display on motherboard? Sorry, that's only reserved for elite bords nowadays, so, pay 600+ eur. That's a nonsense...

These really, are all personal preference. Choosing a mobo is not too difficult. Pick an echo system (AMD/Intel) and CPU, then check the midrange mobos like AMD B650, or Intel B760 to keep costs reasonable, and with enough features for most needs.

 

[okyys]

Thanks everyone for answers.

Based on that, I have decided to wait with upgrading and stay with my current setup a little bit more. Mainly because LGA1700 is end of life and 7800X3D on AM5, as geofelt said, is only better in games, not overall. Plus I am still afraid of it, because of watching some of Gamers Nexus videos and reading many comments on reddit. I still want to give Intel a chance, before finally switching to AMD.

 

[geofelt]

Every socket out there today is "end of life"
When new products are introduced, they will be better price/performers compared to the product they replace. (otherwise, why introduce anything at all)
Usually new products will introduce a 10% or so IPC boost as well as perhaps more processing threads.
Today, the top gaming am5 processor might be the R9-7950X3d, a $700+ processor.
Probably not what a i7-8700K user needs for an upgrade.
8000 series is coming, but those are versions with superior integrated graphics.

It is fruitless to wait on speculation that some massive price/performance boost will come.

Buy what suits you now and for the next couple of years.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

One thing pressuring you can say for new end of life products however is that usually they have the kinks worked out whereas a new socket and new ram may have issues that take months to work out. If you are scared of amd, which I ran amd stuff for years before trying my first Intel build, they tend to be pretty good and reliable.

But you could always go with an Intel 14th generation. Or if you want the new amd socket but are scared of the 7800x3d you could always go for the 7700 for example and use that until the next round of CPUs.

 

[dwd999]

I'm waiting at least until CES ends on January 12th to see what new hardware is announced and/or demoed.

 

[PiersPlowman]

Does your PC do what you want it to do? If yes, no need for an upgrade. If no, set yourself a budget and build to that.