[SOLVED] is MLC dead in consumer market?

[Pextaxmx]

970 PRO and 860 PRO drives are so nice for handling engineering data (super high res CFD result files, easily half TB per file, often even bigger). Then it appears 860 PRO is discontinued (sold out everywhere) and I fear 970 PRO may disappear soon. Only option left would be used SM883 on ebay later on.
Then I suspect applications like mine must not be too uncommon, and there must always be some demand.
Anyone here other than me use any modern MLC drive? Any demand at all in the consumer market?

 

[kerberos_20]

2bit MLC was discontinued last year in favor of 3bit MLC (TLC), 2bit MLC isnt built anymore, hence empty market (poor sales decision)

 

[Pextaxmx]

2bit MLC was discontinued last year in favor of 3bit MLC (TLC), 2bit MLC isnt built anymore, hence empty market (poor sales decision)

we shouldn't use that 3-bit MLC marketing term from Samsung. They simply didn't want to make it too obvious. The fact that they use TLC NAND over MLC that is. So created the weird term. Not that it is not logical or anything. Just that their intention behind it is not so great.

 

[kerberos_20]

well MLC stands for multi level memory cell, TLC stands for tripple level cell..then 2bit MLC should be called DLC for double level cells, no?
samsungs 2bit, 3bit, 4bit or 6bit MLC is ok

 

[Pextaxmx]

I agree and I already mentioned the logic is fine. The term TLC was being widely used, and Samsung used that 3 bit MLC term out of nowhere, and people were confused and thought their TLC models were actually MLC. People don't necessarily understand how NAND chips work, or understand what "T" or "M" or bit count means. Many people thought their 3-bit MLC drive was "MLC", which they heard somewhere that should be superior to "TLC" which is the keyword not shown anywhere in the product description.

 

[worstalentscout]

970 PRO and 860 PRO drives are so nice for handling engineering data (super high res CFD result files, easily half TB per file, often even bigger). Then it appears 860 PRO is discontinued (sold out everywhere) and I fear 970 PRO may disappear soon. Only option left would be used SM883 on ebay later on.
Then I suspect applications like mine must not be too uncommon, and there must always be some demand.
Anyone here other than me use any modern MLC drive? Any demand at all in the consumer market?

i came across this Taiwanese brand (Transcend) - they have MLC SSDs......the flash memory is from Micron

 

[Maxxify]

Yes. It's not even super common in enterprise anymore. For the consumer market, TLC with pSLC caching usually is superior as pSLC has a lot of advantages. In enterprise there's a move to capacity (QLC) with a number of methods used to improve performance. It's possible to get SLC drives, such as ones based on XL Flash or Z-NAND, and pSLC drives for industrial/commercial use or with some Chia drives. Technically, you could run your TLC drive as a 1/3rd capacity pSLC drive, but this requires access to certain tools. Keep in mind there's many reasons DLC (2-bit MLC) is going away, but one is that the memory architecture and hierarchy on servers is moving towards HBM, Optane, tiers of performance, etc. So why no "MLC"? Because it's not cost effective - look at market prices per Gb for MLC versus TLC and you'll see what I mean.

Actually I should add you can run flash in pMLC mode, as well, for example turning a 2TB QLC drive into 1TB MLC, but again this requires modification. It tends not to be worth the cost so there's no products like that (aside from maybe some very specialized usage, including SD). Kioxia's QLC does run in both pTLC and pSLC modes actually, but I digress.

 

[Pextaxmx]

Yes. It's not even super common in enterprise anymore. For the consumer market, TLC with pSLC caching usually is superior as pSLC has a lot of advantages. In enterprise there's a move to capacity (QLC) with a number of methods used to improve performance. It's possible to get SLC drives, such as ones based on XL Flash or Z-NAND, and pSLC drives for industrial/commercial use or with some Chia drives. Technically, you could run your TLC drive as a 1/3rd capacity pSLC drive, but this requires access to certain tools. Keep in mind there's many reasons DLC (2-bit MLC) is going away, but one is that the memory architecture and hierarchy on servers is moving towards HBM, Optane, tiers of performance, etc. So why no "MLC"? Because it's not cost effective - look at market prices per Gb for MLC versus TLC and you'll see what I mean.

Actually I should add you can run flash in pMLC mode, as well, for example turning a 2TB QLC drive into 1TB MLC, but again this requires modification. It tends not to be worth the cost so there's no products like that (aside from maybe some very specialized usage, including SD). Kioxia's QLC does run in both pTLC and pSLC modes actually, but I digress.

Thank you for the interesting information on the trends. The Kioxia QLC sounds interesting. Are you saying those drives are sold with the capability of switching between QLC and pSLC in firmware level?

 

[Maxxify]

Thank you for the interesting information on the trends. The Kioxia QLC sounds interesting. Are you saying those drives are sold with the capability of switching between QLC and pSLC in firmware level?

All current consumer flash supports operating in pSLC mode and in fact there's nothing limiting the ability to run in other modes (e.g. pMLC). Starting with Kioxia's 96L QLC, they specifically show the flash running in pSLC and pTLC modes simultaneously (ISSCC document). You effectively have the same cells and the same word lines (the largest portion of the "layers," although layer count as reported typically refers to word line or data layers rather than total layers) but have fewer bits and pages per word line; QLC will have 4 bits or pages (down the line) while in pSLC it's just 1 bit and page per WL (but this quarters the capacity). If you are new to these concepts I cover them in my SSD Basics page on my subreddit (/r/newmaxx), or I may be misunderstanding your question.