Question Is my 3600x starting to die?

MetalMatty

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Okay, so I'll try and keep this short.

Ryzen 3600x, almost a year to the day old.

Spent it's entire life at 4.4GHz all core, with voltage offset at .204+ (Gigabyte board) which in Bios showed somewhere around 1.224VCore.

Passed all the big torture tests with flying colors, as did the RAM that is set to 1:1.

Yesterday I was playing Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, and after about 45 minutes frames tanked to 5fps in game. Developer mode says the limiting factor is Main Thread.

Changed some settings, nothing helped, so I thought my OC might just be getting to be a bit unstable as I've read that can happen. Opened P95, small FFTs test causes immediate crash. Uh-oh!

I let it reboot, and decide to run CBR20 to compare scores to what it was. Stock it was standard 3600x, somewhere around 3500-3600. My overclock was around 3950. Now... 3300.

Tried P95 again, also crashes. Sometimes it makes it 5 minutes and errors out, sometimes it makes it 5 minutes and hard crashes.

Back into BIOS, lowered from 4.4GHz to 4.3GHz, became stable for the short amount of time I could test it, maybe 25 minutes, but R20 score had gone to 3250.

Tested RAM and set it back to normal XMP settings, no change. I tried loading optimized defaults and leaving everything alone, except XMP on and setting it to 1:1. Tried with and without PB and PBO.

R20 score is just 3222 now.

Temps on my original overclock were in the very low 70s, after I tried raising voltage a tad to get stable, low 80s, and stock was 67 or so, so it's not like it's overheating, and it only ever saw anywhere near these temps during P95 tests.

Curious what your thoughts are, and if it DOES seem like a possibly dying chip, can AMD see if a card had been overclocked, and is their warranty team generally pretty good to deal with?

Thanks all.
 
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MetalMatty

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This sounds more like it degraded. You can still use it, just not at the settings you had before.
I guess that was really the question. It still works, I know that, but losing that level of theoretical performance is kind of a bummer.

Do you know by chance if this is something that would fall into an RMA possibility?
 
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Do you know by chance if this is something that would fall into an RMA possibility?
After overclocking? no way...you even hint that you ran with clocks fixed at 4400 and warranty's bound to be voided. And besides, it sounds like it's still a perfectly good CPU. Try putting it in AUTO, both clocks and volts and then running a tweaked PBO, hopefully it will still boost individual cores to 4400 as needed in light gaming to recover the gaming performance,.

Now you understand why so many have been saying not to run fixed overclocks on Zen 2 and to use PBO instead.
 

MetalMatty

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After overclocking? no way...you even hint that you ran with clocks fixed at 4400 and warranty's bound to be voided. And besides, it sounds like it's still a perfectly good CPU. Try putting it in AUTO, both clocks and volts and then running a tweaked PBO, hopefully it will still boost individual cores to 4400 as needed in light gaming to recover the gaming performance,.

Now you understand why so many have been saying not to run fixed overclocks on Zen 2 and to use PBO instead.
Well, obviously I wouldn't tell them it was overclocked. A 4.4GHz low voltage OC isn't something that should degrade a CPU this far in 11 months, regardless if it technically voids warranty, lol.

And that's part of the problem, even all stock settings it's hitting between 4.2 and 4.4GHz, but my benchmark is still only 3200.

I have Windows updating now, then I'll check to make sure paste is okay and not creating a hot spot and to make sure the CPU is still seated okay cause I DID just move.
 
Well, obviously I wouldn't tell them it was overclocked. A 4.4GHz low voltage OC isn't something that should degrade a CPU this far in 11 months, regardless if it technically voids warranty, lol.
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If it works as it should in stock settings there's really no warranty claim. You're performance (which isn't atypical of 3600X's in stock anyway) could be affected by a highly sub-obtimal system setup so you're only real beef is it's no longer stable at a fixed overclock of 4.4Ghz. It's hard to understand how you can avoid telling them.

You might think it shouldn't degrade but there are a lot of people who've already experienced degradation while pushing theirs for even less time. They're the ones beating the drums on /r/overclocking that fixed all-core is risky and not worth it long term.
 
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Well, obviously I wouldn't tell them it was overclocked. A 4.4GHz low voltage OC isn't something that should degrade a CPU this far in 11 months, regardless if it technically voids warranty, lol.
The only thing that I thought looked somewhat worrying was the temperature. Sure it wasn't reaching the overheating numbers, but running the processor hotter than stock is going to make it degrade faster. And it might've not been the CPU die itself that degraded, but one of the other components on the packaging.
 

MetalMatty

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If it works as it should in stock settings there's really no warranty claim. You're performance (which isn't atypical of 3600X's in stock anyway) could be affected by a highly sub-obtimal system setup so you're only real beef is it's no longer stable at a fixed overclock of 4.4Ghz. It's hard to understand how you can avoid telling them.

You might think it shouldn't degrade but there are a lot of people who've already experienced degradation while pushing theirs for even less time. They're the ones beating the drums on /r/overclocking that fixed all-core is risky and not worth it long term.
Im sorry, but my "beef"
The only thing that I thought looked somewhat worrying was the temperature. Sure it wasn't reaching the overheating numbers, but running the processor hotter than stock is going to make it degrade faster. And it might've not been the CPU die itself that degraded, but one of the other components on the packaging.
Actually my beef is that even at stock settings with the card showing that it's running the way it should, it's benchmarking hundreds under what it should be.

But I understand where you're coming from, thanks for your help.
 
Im sorry, but my "beef"
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3222 all-core is a bit low but it's really close. Aside from optimizations (using default memory vs. XMP vs. low-latency custom timings among others) declining performance of that small scale can be attributed to any number of factors: aging capacitors and resistors in the biasing circuitry of your motherboard VRM, dust accumulation on heatsinks, thermal compound bed disturbance all being possible hardware related contributors with changed background processes due to Windows updates and BIOS updates being significant software contributors.

And then there's the simple factor of how tightly controlled your tests have been. Something as simple as ambient temperature can make significant difference in multi-thread scores considering how thermally sensitive Ryzen CPU's are. Just making sure you always run CB20 from the same machine state is also important: I can register a 200pt difference in my PBO'd 3700X scores just by running it a couple minutes after first boot up, so that it's settled down, vs. a hour or so into using it.

And then the more telling would be single thread scores: that's what helps gaming most and less dependent on optimization variables.

All that's going to influence an AMD decision and you have to overcome those arguments convincing them something amiss with your CPU...without cluing them in you stressed with a fixed 4.4Ghz overclock for a year. As I understand it if you convince their tech support to issue an RMA they'll have you send it in and then test it. If it passes their testing they'll deny warranty then charge you for return shipping.
 
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I doubt anything is really wrong with your CPU at all.

MSFS2020 had some nasty new updates in August that caused the 5FPS garbage until restart the application. Try it again. Some people had to re-install the whole game after the last update which broke all kinds of things.

Your 4.4GHz probably wasn't prime95 stable to begin with, and that's fine unless you are actually a mathematician who needs to use P95 to search for new prime numbers all day long. Otherwise it's a worthless test for most people. Run stability tests that are slightly harder than the typical workload you run and you will be fine.

As far as RMA, you could, but since your CPU technically works fine AMD will probably reject it.

I would dial back in your previous overclock of 4.4GHz and test it again with something more reasonable, like AIDA64. Also load up MSFS2020 again and see if you can get it working right. There are tons of settings to tweak in that simulator. Even the most high end PCs will struggle to max out all of the sliders.
 
Well, obviously I wouldn't tell them it was overclocked. A 4.4GHz low voltage OC isn't something that should degrade a CPU this far in 11 months, regardless if it technically voids warranty, lol.

And that's part of the problem, even all stock settings it's hitting between 4.2 and 4.4GHz, but my benchmark is still only 3200.

I have Windows updating now, then I'll check to make sure paste is okay and not creating a hot spot and to make sure the CPU is still seated okay cause I DID just move.
Just because it "hits" 4.2GHz to 4.4GHz at stock settings it does not mean it can hold the all cores frecuency as it used to hold some time ago.

If I read your first post correctly you applied +.204v offset right?, then if Im correctly this mean the CPU could have been runing at over 1.4volts for a year (while on heavy loads). It wouldn't be a surprise it degraded a bit.

If I were in your place, I would set everything back to stock in BIOS, and even keep PBO off.
 
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MetalMatty

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Well, ended up buying a 5600X.

Got home from the 3 hour drive, benchmarked the 3600X for fun, and now it's magically fine. For two days it was hundreds of points low. Oh well.

Got the 5600x in, still not amazing benchmark scores but I'm not chasing benchmarks this time. Just changed some PBO settings going off of guides, have good temps/voltage/clock speed and a score I can live with. 10800 was highest so far on CBR23, clocks are hitting 4.55 all-core so it seems a bit low, but not enough that I care. +200 clock speed override, -20 all core curve, though this is preliminary so far and needs more testing, 105W PPT and 105A EPC if curious. Gonna watch some actual videos tonight instead of reading forum posts just to confirm everything is fine.

Still need to update chipset drivers, but other than that I'm happy where it's at. Maybe down the road I'll undervolt for my preferred cores if I have issues.

I still don't know why my 3600X randomly started scoring less then... Not. Nothing changed.

In any event, thanks for the help with everything.
 
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Well, ended up buying a 5600X.

Got home from the 3 hour drive, benchmarked the 3600X for fun, and now it's magically fine. For two days it was hundreds of points low. Oh well.

Got the 5600x in, still not amazing benchmark scores but I'm not chasing benchmarks this time. Just changed some PBO settings going off of guides, have good temps/voltage/clock speed and a score I can live with. 10800 was highest so far on CBR23, clocks are hitting 4.55 all-core so it seems a bit low, but not enough that I care. +200 clock speed override, -20 all core curve, though this is preliminary so far and needs more testing, 105W PPT and 105A EPC if curious. Gonna watch some actual videos tonight instead of reading forum posts just to confirm everything is fine.

Still need to update chipset drivers, but other than that I'm happy where it's at. Maybe down the road I'll undervolt for my preferred cores if I have issues.

I still don't know why my 3600X randomly started scoring less then... Not. Nothing changed.

In any event, thanks for the help with everything.
I guess congratulations on your new 5600X.

And yes do update chipset drivers, you can donwload them also from AMD website (this one should be the newest ones: https://www.amd.com/en/support)

If I were in your place, at least for a few weeks, I will restore BIOS back to defaul/optimized settings, turn ON XMP for the RAM and leave it that way.

If after a few weeks everything is runing fine, then, just then I would mess around with cpu/ram ratios, pbo, volatges, etc. just for fun.

Also 4.6GHz is the single core max frecuency (https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-5-5600x), the all-core speed should be lower.
 

MetalMatty

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I guess congratulations on your new 5600X.

And yes do update chipset drivers, you can donwload them also from AMD website (this one should be the newest ones: https://www.amd.com/en/support)

If I were in your place, at least for a few weeks, I will restore BIOS back to defaul/optimized settings, turn ON XMP for the RAM and leave it that way.

If after a few weeks everything is runing fine, then, just then I would mess around with cpu/ram ratios, pbo, volatges, etc. just for fun.

Also 4.6GHz is the single core max frecuency (https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-5-5600x), the all-core speed should be lower.
I know it's the rated single core speed, but with PBO set to 200+ MHz, they hit 4.6GHz so long as you have power and thermal headroom. With PBO on auto, it will all-core to 4.4GHz, but temps skyrocket on auto.

That's actually the plan, though. Going to set all to stock, turn on XMP, then over the next few days slowly start adding things back in just to check for any possible problem children.
 
I know it's the rated single core speed, but with PBO set to 200+ MHz, they hit 4.6GHz so long as you have power and thermal headroom. With PBO on auto, it will all-core to 4.4GHz, but temps skyrocket on auto.

That's actually the plan, though. Going to set all to stock, turn on XMP, then over the next few days slowly start adding things back in just to check for any possible problem children.
Yeap, I know. No probelm, as long as you know that PBO is OC too, and that you can end up with the same problem you did with the R5 3600.

Im only telling you did because I do not think theres a need for PBO or OC a R5 5600X just yet. I mean is one of the top freaking fastest CPUs for gaming out there. So R5 5600X + PB (without the O) should be all anyone need (at least for the time been).


Anyways, have fun and enjoy your MFS. I will soon get onto my virtual truck on ETS 2 and drive around too.

Cheers
 

MetalMatty

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Yeap, I know. No probelm, as long as you know that PBO is OC too, and that you can end up with the same problem you did with the R5 3600.

Im only telling you did because I do not think theres a need for PBO or OC a R5 5600X just yet. I mean is one of the top freaking fastest CPUs for gaming out there. So R5 5600X + PB (without the O) should be all anyone need (at least for the time been).


Anyways, have fun and enjoy your MFS. I will soon get onto my virtual truck on ETS 2 and drive around too.

Cheers
Enjoy! I have a slight addiction to ATS myself, haha.
 
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MetalMatty

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If anything, you can use PBO to set an undervolt. You get the same performance for less power consumed. Or if you're feeling like rolling the dice on the silicon lottery, you can undervolt and add an overclock.
I currently have I think no clock boost speed override side. I said I did up top but I'm pretty sure I turned it off cause it was negligible. I do have -20 curve to all core currently but I still need to actually test stability. Figured I'd start there and work my way up on an individual core basis tomorrow when I don't work.
 
ss
Yeap, I know. No probelm, as long as you know that PBO is OC too,...
Technically yes...but it's not really the same as a fixed clocks overclock.

With PBO the processor's boost algorithm is still working and able to reduce clocks as well as core voltage as the CPU gets hot. That means it can still protect itself from the degradation that seems to have consumed OP's previous CPU.
 
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