[SOLVED] Is my motherboard bricked?

[bostoncommon]

I was trying to update my mobo, Xfx GeForce 8200 (MI-A78S-8209) v 1.3 and grab v 1.7 here http://xfxstorage.com/Support/BIOS/Motherboard/730a-8200/Floppy/

So I copied the files to my dos bootable USB drive. Tbh, I couldn't find any instructions on how to flash my bios so I figured just running the ROM. Please see screenshot below. Basically after that, I exited and restarted my computer. But within 2 seconds, it powers off, then turns on again but only for 2 seconds and turns off, this goes on in a loop. I reset my CMOS with the pins, take out the battery, unplug everything (SSD, optical drive, etc.) but still the same deal. Is there anything else I could do to revert back to the way it was before? What did I do wrong? Thought I'd post here in case there's a slim chance I can have my computer alive again 😅 thanks in advance!

 

[Aeacus]

What did I do wrong?

Any specific reason why you decided to update your BIOS? Other than it was older version?

Updating BIOS isn't something you can do on a whim. BIOS update, as such, is only viable when you know for a fact that newer BIOS fixes the specific issue you have with your PC. (E.g if i want to use Kaby Lake CPU with my Z170 chipset MoBo, i need to update my MoBo BIOS.) If there are no issues, there is no reason, what-so-ever, to update BIOS. Just because you "can" update BIOS doesn't mean that you "have to".

Most MoBos never get their BIOS updated and work fine until they are obsolete. Also, do note that when BIOS update would be interrupted for whatever reason (e.g power loss), your MoBo will be bricked and only fix is MoBo replacement.

Due to that, my best guess is that you've damaged the MoBo BIOS chip and now, you have corrupt BIOS. PC won't run when MoBo has corrupt BIOS and only fix is MoBo replacement.

This here is what i call a life's tax.

 

[bostoncommon]

Thank you for your response! Absolutely, that's why I haven't updated in 10 years ! I got a new SSD over a week ago, and was trying to use AHCI mode for Win 10 and also so I can install linux mint. For some reason, my PC does not detect my SSD in AHCI mode, only in SATA mode for Win 10. And for linux, it did not detect my SSD on any mode at all. But my win 8.1 (I have a multi boot system) was working fine in AHCI mode. I was in another forum and a suggestion was to update the BIOS. I do, however, take complete responsibility and I don't blame anyone but myself. They were very helpful, and since we exhausted all other troubleshooting steps, including reinstalling win 10, that was the next logical step. That's why I made sure to do that last lol, but I did have my original HDD (which I cloned from to my SSD), so I was feeling a bit adventurous, shall we say lol. Ahh well, I suppose it's time for me to get a new one anyway, right?? Thanks for taking the time to read this!

 

[Aeacus]

my PC does not detect my SSD in AHCI mode, only in SATA mode

ACHI and SATA are the same thing.

For example;
If you'd have M.2 SSD, and M.2 2280 slot on MoBo, or are using adapter card to plug it into PCI-E x1 slot, there are two different kinds of M.2 drives:

1. NVMe SSD, which uses PCI-E protocol and has very fast read/write times.
2. ACHI SSD, which uses SATA protocol and has same speeds as normal SATA 2.5" drive, that you can plug directly to your MoBo SATA port.

AHCI - Advanced Host Controller Interface - this is a hardware mechanism that allows the software to communicate with Serial ATA (SATA) devices. It offers features such as hot-plugging and native command queuing (NCQ).

IDE - Integrated Drive Electronics - IDE is basically the "old" version of AHCI without hot-plugging and NCQ. (This is usually used during the Parallel ATA (PATA) era hard disks)

Now. AHCI mode and IDE mode -- what is it? IDE mode is to give you the greatest compatibility with older operating systems. While AHCI is as I mentioned above, modern version of the IDE -- use AHCI mode if you are running recent operating systems (Windows Vista+ and Linux kernel from 2.6.19+). IDE mode will allow you to connect older operating systems to SATA drives.

As I mentioned above, SATA is Serial ATA, and is the replacement for Parallel ATA (PATA) hard drives.

Supplemental: Many SATA controllers can enable AHCI separately or in conjunction with RAID support. Intel recommends choosing RAID mode on their motherboards, which also enables AHCI, rather than AHCI/SATA mode for maximum flexibility (in case you ever want to build a RAID array), since there are some issues that occurs, usually BSOD, when you choose a different mode once an operating system has already been installed.

Source: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...ata-mean/d622d5cd-41c4-4b84-90ef-cea69aa47089

was trying to use AHCI mode for Win 10

Sounds like you were trying to use UEFI mode for Win10, rather than the Legacy mode (aka BIOS mode). But for that, your MoBo needs to support UEFI, which due to it's age, for sure does not support.

Even my MoBo, MSI Z170A Gaming M5, prefers Legacy mode but it does have UEFI mode as well. Still, me being used with Legacy boot, i installed my Win7 into Legacy mode. And in due time, upgraded my OS to Win10.
UEFI vs Legacy, matters only when the OS boots. Once it boots, it doesn't matter anymore. If everything works as expected and you're happy with it, Legacy mode is fine.

 

[bostoncommon]

1. ACHI SSD, which uses SATA protocol and has same speeds as normal SATA 2.5" drive, that you can plug directly to your MoBo SATA port.

Yes, that's exactly what I did. I have 6 SATA ports, and using the SATA data cable, I just plugged it in to the first port. On my bios, it had 3 modes: SATA (default), AHCI, RAID. So not sure why they made it a separate option if they're the same thing? See below:

Sounds like you were trying to use UEFI mode for Win10, rather than the Legacy mode (aka BIOS mode). But for that, your MoBo needs to support UEFI, which due to it's age, for sure does not support.

Yeah, my BIOS mode is legacy (and I can't change it to anything else). I'm not familiar with UEFI, but I've seen it while I was researching and I can confirm I don't have that. So, yeah, I was just trying to enable AHCI on win 10 because for some reason it is slow/choppy on "SATA" mode (whatever that means) and I've read that my SSD should be on AHCI mode for win 10. I had no issues with win 8.1, and it performs very well on AHCI mode. Like I said, this is my first time using an SSD - my old HDD is still kicking, but I figured it's time to upgrade to SSD 😅

 

[Aeacus]

On my bios, it had 3 modes: SATA (default), AHCI, RAID. So not sure why they made it a separate option if they're the same thing?

It is possible, that the SATA mode is made to be more compatible with older Wins (e.g XP) or IDE (PATA) drives, while ACHI mode offers better compatibility with newer Wins (e.g 7) or SATA drives. Other than that, i see no reason why there would be two different modes doing the same thing.

because for some reason it is slow/choppy on "SATA" mode

It could be, that SATA mode limits the bandwidth to SATA 1 or SATA 2, while ACHI gives the full SATA 3 speeds. That would explain why drive is slower on "SATA mode" than on "ACHI mode".

but I figured it's time to upgrade to SSD

I'd say it's time to upgrade the whole PC, or the very least, go with new CPU-MoBo-RAM combo.

 

[bostoncommon]

I'd say it's time to upgrade the whole PC, or the very least, go with new CPU-MoBo-RAM combo.

Absolutely😂😂! I'm so out of the loop in the hardware space that I'm asking my niece to help me with recommendations lol, she recently upgraded her desktop. Last time I upgraded my 20 yr old desktop was a little over 10 years ago!

Btw, do you know of any company/website that lets me customize a barebones PC? I'm thinking of using Newegg, but I wanted to have more options. Most of theirs do not include IDE ports, and I need that so I can install my internal HDD (I don't think I want to use an external adapter, if there such a thing, for it).

I'm planning on re-using my PSU. And since I have my cloned SSD and extra HDD, all I need to buy is the CPU-MoBo-RAM combo and a compatible case for it! Feel free to throw me any recommendations as well!

Thanks again for your very helpful info!!

 

[Aeacus]

Btw, do you know of any company/website that lets me customize a barebones PC?

Well, PCPartPicker is the de-facto site which all experts and many users of Tom's Hardware use,
link: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

You can create your whole PC in there and it also gives you links from where to buy individual components. Buying individual components will give you the best price to performance ratio, compared when you'd buy prebuilt PC. Downside (or upside) is, that you have to assemble your own PC.

I've assembled all 3 of my PCs on my own and i love it. You can even create PC showoff page in PCPP, like i have:
Skylake (https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/bd9J7P),
Haswell (https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/RRvnTW),
AMD (https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/2Y9J7P).
I've also listed the actual purchase prices of each of my components and some may call me nuts when they see how much money i've sunken into my PCs.

Enough of me and back to you.

Without knowing your budget, it's very difficult to suggest which CPU-MoBo-RAM combo to go for, but here's something to consider:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-11600K 3.9 GHz 6-Core Processor ($264.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 50.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($89.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI Z590 PRO WIFI ATX LGA1200 Motherboard ($198.00 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL14 Memory ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $662.88
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-09-27 23:04 EDT-0400

Few words.

CPU
I5-11600K is the latest from Intel and it has 6 cores with 12 threads. It's very solid mid/high tier CPU and can handle many tasks with ease, including gaming. And if stock clocks aren't enough, the K-suffix means that you can overclock the CPU to get even more performance out of it. Also, it has on-board graphics (something that AMD Ryzen series CPUs lack) and is helpful when your dedicated GPU should die. In that case, just plug your monitor to your MoBo and you can continue using your PC. Albeit, iGPU isn't that powerful than dedicated GPU.
Specs: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...1600k-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-90-ghz.html

CPU cooler
Since i picked K-series CPU, it doesn't come with CPU cooler. For CPU cooler, i picked one of the best big-sized air coolers, Dark Rock Pro 4.
Dark Rock Pro 4 has more than enough cooling power to cool your CPU, even if you OC it. Also, it has classy all black finish.
Note: CPU cooler is 165mm tall and i don't know if your current PC case has enough clearance for it. If it doesn't, either replace the CPU cooler with something lower, or buy a new PC case that has enough clearance.
Specs: https://www.bequiet.com/en/cpucooler/1378
Review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-4-cpu-cooler,5559.html

MoBo
Here, i picked MSI MoBo without any RGB lights and other bling (since i don't know your preference regarding that). But what the MoBo does come with, is built-in wi-fi. Personally, i don't use/need built-in wi-fi, since my PCs have wired connection to the net, but many people prefer to use wi-fi and for that MoBo, it's a nice option. It also means that you don't have to buy dedicated wi-fi card. Other than that, i don't know what else to say about the MoBo. You can read more about it from specs page,
Specs: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z590-PRO-WIFI

RAM
Picked 2x 8GB (16GB) DDR4, 3200 Mhz, CAS Latency 14 RAM for you. While some are already saying that 16GB of RAM is getting a bit less at current date, 16GB is still quite a bit and ontop of that, you can easily add more RAM, since MoBo has 4 RAM slots. Oh, the CAS Latency of 14 is really good since the lower the number - the faster response you'll get from RAM. E.g my Kingston HyperX Savage RAM has CAS Latency of 15, while most RAMs out there have CAS Latency of 16.
Note: RAM is 42mm tall and while Dark Rock Pro 4 has up to 40mm RAM clearance, you can move the fan slightly upwards to gain enough clearance.
Specs: https://www.gskill.com/product/165/184/1536055178/F4-3200C14D-16GVK-Overview

Regarding IDE;
IDE is dead technology, just like floppy disks and VHS tapes. To get your IDE drive working with new PC, i suggest buying IDE/SATA -> USB adapter. E.g this one,
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-FIDECO-Converter-5-25-Inch-DVD-ROM/dp/B077N2KK27

It is far cheaper and a lot less headache to buy an adapter, than looking for a niche MoBo, that has both the IDE and SATA ports, like your current MoBo has. Best you could get, is looking for same era MoBos as your current MoBo. But i doubt that you'd find any of them in new condition, instead, i think they all are used. And may also cost premium price too (due to the niche).

I'm planning on re-using my PSU.

Your PSU make and model (or part number) is? But if i'd go by what you said, that you bought the PC 20 years ago and last upgrade was 10 years ago, that makes your PSU at least 10 years old, if not more. That being said, i strongly suggest that you buy a new, up-to-the-date PSU as well. Since when PSU goes sky high, they have the magical ability to fry everything they are connected to. And you don't want to kill your new hardware, right?

For good PSU to go for, look towards Seasonic, either their Focus or PRIME series. At this moment, it's very hard for me to suggest wattage range, especially since i don't know which dedicated GPU you plan to use, but for a safe bet, 750W range will be enough for any system using one dedicated GPU.
Pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/64cMnQ,dCs8TW,Wfvqqs,Yp3mP6/

 

[bostoncommon]

Thank you so much! Oh man your rigs definitely look premium and badass! Tbh, I only upgrade mine out of necessity 😅 - if you can see mine, it looks like the bride of Frankenstein. My internal HDD is not even properly installed/no screws and I just placed my 2.5 SSD in a 3.5 empty bay slot with no casing lol. Then my CD-RW, swiped from my brother's old PC, which also uses ide (I still need that since I have so much burned cds), has a broken tray, although still works. And my CPU fan snappy thing is broken, so I lay my tower down horizontally so it won't fall off 😂 I am surprised though that she lasted this long!

My budget is definitely less than 1k, and I was actually initially looking at AMDs with integrated graphics, since my previous one is an Amd athlon and I have to say it was very good to me - no issues until I installed win 10 lol. Although the last PC game I played on it has been several years ago...

But yeah, maybe I should give Intel a try. I remember my dad's old Intel HP always had problems, but of course that was ages ago! Thanks again, you've truly been very helpful and will definitely let you know what I bought and if I survive building everything together! Yes, definitely good call on the PSU! I don't know what I have so I'm not going to risk it and just buy a new one.

Ps. I hope they provide me screws! Or I guess I can use the ones on my old PC 😅 I'll keep you updated!

 

[Aeacus]

Oh man your rigs definitely look premium and badass!

Well, Enthusiast Computing is my lifestyle, hence my fancy rigs. Some people tune up their cars/trucks, others are big in handiwork (e.g furniture), some love to garden, but i have love towards PCs.

since my previous one is an Amd athlon

I also have AMD Athlon, in my AMD build. But the OS there is WinXP and i keep it for retro gaming (games pre-2005).

I was actually initially looking at AMDs with integrated graphics

These are called APU and not CPU. There are current day AMD APUs out there but since quite a lot of CPUs internals are taken up by iGPU, the CPU part of the APU is relatively weak. But if you plan to run the PC without dedicated GPU, AMD APU will do better overall job than Intel CPU with iGPU.

Few comparisons;
Ryzen 7 5700G (fastest AMD APU at current date) vs i5-11660K,
link: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-5700G-vs-Intel-Core-i5-11600K/m1552677vs4113

iGPU comparison, RX Vega 8 (in Ryzen 7 5700G) vs UHD 750 (in Intel i5-11600K),
link: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compa...U-vs-Intel-UHD-Graphics-750/m441833vsm1498842

And here's the pcpp listing of AMD APU setup:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5700G 3.8 GHz 8-Core Processor ($349.00 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard ($239.99 @ Adorama)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL14 Memory ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $698.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-09-28 15:00 EDT-0400

Few words.

APU
For time being, put in the best/fastest AMD APU there is. But you can always downsize it, for cheaper APU, e.g 5600G, 3400G, 3200G, 2400G or 2200G.
Note: X570 chipset MoBo needs latest BIOS to work with 5700G and 5600G. If your MoBo doesn't come with latest BIOS, you need older generation APU/CPU (3000-series) to update the BIOS, prior to using 5000-series APU/CPU.
Or if you don't want to risk it with another BIOS update, you can always go with 3400G or 3200G APU. With these, there are no conflicts.

CPU cooler
There is no need for dedicated CPU cooler since all AMD APUs come with stock AMD cooler, which is enough to cool it.

MoBo
Put in MSI MoBo with built-in wi-fi. Since there isn't exact version of MSI MoBo on AMD side as there is on Intel side, i had to pick Tomahawk series MoBo, which does have a bit RGB bling to it.
Specs: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-X570-TOMAHAWK-WIFI

RAM
The same one as in Intel build i linked above.

------------------------------

And here are comparisons of both builds, Intel build as baseline, AMD APU build as alternative:

Userbenchmark PC Build Comparison

Baseline Bench: Game 17%, Desk 96%, Work 16%
CPU: Intel Core i5-11600K
GPU: Intel UHD Graphics 750
SSD: Samsung 870 EVO 1TB
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws V DDR4 3200 C16 2x8GB

Alternative Bench: Game 18%, Desk 89%, Work 19%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
GPU: AMD RX Vega 8 (Ryzen iGPU)
SSD: Samsung 870 EVO 1TB
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws V DDR4 3200 C16 2x8GB

Few words.
Added in one good SSD, to make the comparison whole. Also, the RAM isn't the exact same one as in pcpp listing but userbenchmark didn't have the exact one, so, i put in the closest match.

As you can see, both are relatively equal. Though, they both would benefit from dedicated GPU. But they do work without one.

------------------------------------
Edit:
After some thought, i decided to present you a whole new build, with everything it needs:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3400G 3.7 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($308.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450M BAZOOKA MAX WIFI Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($92.08 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL14 Memory ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 870 Evo 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($125.39 @ MemoryC)
Case: be quiet! Pure Base 600 ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.90 @ Newegg Sellers)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Platinum 550 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($109.95 @ Amazon)
Total: $826.30
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-09-28 15:39 EDT-0400

Few words.

APU
Went with 3400G APU, since 5000-series APUs, while better/faster, also cost more money and have the risk of you needing to update the BIOS. So, for ease of mind, put in a good APU that doesn't need any BIOS updates to get working.

CPU Cooler
Comes with APU.

MoBo
While X570 chipset is latest, it also costs quite a bit. For 3000-series APU, one gen older and one chipset lower, B450 chipset, will do fine. There is no need for BIOS update and MoBo also has built-in wi-fi. No RGB bling with this one. MoBo has HDMI 2.0b port, where you can connect your monitor,
specs: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450M-BAZOOKA-MAX-WIFI

RAM
Same one as in previous listings.

SSD
Put in a good and fast 1TB SSD, Samsung 870 Evo. If you have OS/storage drives that you plan to re-use, you can ditch it and save $125.

Case
Picked a nice, small PC case for you, that doesn't have a window but does have two 5.25" external bays (for your CD/DVD reader). It is also very versatile little case, offering 7 different case fan mount locations: 2 in front, 3 on top, 1 at the rear. You can add up to 3 fans in front, if you remove the modular 5.25" bay. Also, it has built-in fan controller for up to 3 fans,
specs: https://www.bequiet.com/en/case/921

If you want to have a side window as well, there are windowed variants of Pure Base 600 too,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/FZ38TW,3wfmP6/
Note: choosing a PC case is personal choice and feel free to switch it out.

PSU
And lastly, a good quality PSU to power the PC. Seasonic Focus+ 550W (80+ Platinum) with 10 years of warranty and fully-modular cables. I have the very same PSU powering my AMD build. PSU is also powerful enough to power dedicated GPU, if you ever need to go with one. But do keep the dedicated GPU TDP 150W or lower. (E.g GTX 1650 or GTX 1660 Ti is a good fit for it.)

 

[bostoncommon]

Oh man, you are super awesome !! Thanks - definitely leaning on the AMD build. Although I don't really need a wifi mobo (are those more expensive?) since I like everything wired. I'm a bit paranoid with too much wireless devices (you probably heard of those crazy people with RF phobia 🤪) , I try not to enable them lol! My consoles, smart tv, laptop are all actually connected via Ethernet.

Although I said 1k, I'll probably just use my puny 8 gb ram for now and yeah, keep my SSD thanks for the adapter link - will definitely use that for my HHD. Yeah, I might look for a sata capable optical drive to replace my old ide one! I'm surprised there are blue ray drives out there that's cheap (and that they can read CDs), man I'm so way behind technology lol!

I might wait until Black Friday to purchase everything, I mean you'll never know, I can get discounts and besides it's only a lil' over month away hehe~ I'll keep you posted though .. I'll be baaackk!

 

[Aeacus]

I'll probably just use my puny 8 gb ram for now

If you go with new build, you can't re-use your RAM, since the RAM you had in your MoBo, is DDR2, while what we have currently in use, is DDR4. (DDR3 was last in service with Intel Haswell CPU family, while when Intel Skylake CPU family released, in 2015, DDR4 became a new RAM standard.) Though, there are signs that DDR5 is coming but for now, latest we have is DDR4.

Although I don't really need a wifi mobo (are those more expensive?)

Not that much.

Here are all B450 chipset MoBos (with 4 RAM slots) that fit the final build i composed, ordered by price,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#c=133&N=4,16&sort=price&page=1
If you go with cheapest B450 chipset MoBo, with 4 RAM slots, at most, you can save $18.

Built-in wi-fi is just one feature of a MoBo, which you can enable/disable at will. What sets same chipset MoBos apart are the features offered with a MoBo. Though, i wouldn't pick the cheapest one since those usually have inadequate VRM and poor VRM cooling, that may lead into issues down the line (VRM - Voltage Regulation Module).

I might wait until Black Friday to purchase everything

Many people think that Black Friday gives them better deal on PC hardware prices, while the truth is, that on that day, most of the stuff on sale is excess stock, that stores want to get rid of. And there's a reason why people haven't bought those specific products. Either they are priced too high, or build quality isn't good (poor product). So, i wouldn't hope for a great deal.

Also, the age old truth is, that when you want to buy a good and cheap product, you have to buy 2 products: the good one and the cheap one.
Oh, 2nd age old truth too: if you pay peanuts, you will get monkeys.

 

[bostoncommon]

If you go with new build, you can't re-use your RAM, since the RAM you had in your MoBo, is DDR2, while what we have currently in use, is DDR4. (DDR3 was last in service with Intel Haswell CPU family, while when Intel Skylake CPU family released, in 2015, DDR4 became a new RAM standard.) Though, there are signs that DDR5 is coming but for now, latest we have is DDR4.

D'oh 🤦‍♂️ didn't take that into consideration!

Many people think that Black Friday gives them better deal on PC hardware prices, while the truth is, that on that day, most of the stuff on sale is excess stock, that stores want to get rid of. And there's a reason why people haven't bought those specific products. Either they are priced too high, or build quality isn't good (poor product). So, i wouldn't hope for a great deal.

So true! I guess I'm trying to find excuses to delay the inevitable 😅 I truly need a desktop though, laptops are fine to an extent but I miss working on a dual monitor setup lol - so stay tuned! Thanks again for everything I truly appreciate your valuable knowledge and recommendations, helps ease the pain a lot!