[SOLVED] Is my UPS compatible ?

[elhadi91]

Hello guys,

I entend to buy a new UPS, more precisely the CyberPower BRICs LCD BR1000ELCD.

That been said, i need your experts advices as if this is a good match considering my following pc rig and that the voltage of my electricty system is 220V, will this powersupply function well for me with no problems ?

Computer Case: Antec GX500 (5 fans)
Processor: Intel Core i5 3470 3.2ghz Socket 1155
Motherboard: MSI B75MA-E33
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1to 7200rpm
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 8gb 1600mhz
Power Supply: Tacens Radix VII AG 600w 80+ Silver
GPU: MSI Twinfrozr Gaming 4G GTX 970
Monitor 1 : Samsung SyncMaster 226BW (22 ")
Monitor 2: Dell P2417H (24 ")


Thank you in advance for any help you might bring in.

 

[Aeacus]

Wattage wise, let's see;
UPS is 1000VA / 600W unit. Your PC consumes (145W GPU + 200W rest of the system) 345W at max load. Samsung monitor is 55W and Dell monitor is 39W. All combined would be: 345 + 55 + 39 = 439W. Which is more than enough for your UPS to handle, wattage wise.

Though, there's an issue. Your UPS outputs simulated sine wave and if your PSU has Active PFC, which it has according to it's specs,
link: http://www.tacens.es/power-supplies/power-supplies/radix-vi-ag/

Then do note that simulated sine wave isn't compatible with Active PFC.

What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads

What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).

Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS since only true/pure sine wave is compatible with Active PFC. I'd go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat to avoid risks with simulated sine wave UPS.

 

[elhadi91]

Wow i'm amazed by the quality of your answer, it provided me with a lot of valuable informations, so many things i was not aware of. Thannnk you so much. Although, i apologize for the late reply !

However, if you say with the mentioned UPS there is a slight chance that it might result to an immediate shutdown, then i would prefer to go with something more reliable on the long term. So no need to risk it.

That been said, in your expert's opinion, which UPS is suitable and fully compatible for my case? If you have a few suggestions you might provide me with from Amazon or eBay, i will be realy greateful to you (As long as they are in my budget which is below $300)

Although i have a question, just in case in the future i decide to buy a new Power Supply, and this one doesn't have "simulated sine wave" will it work well with a PSU that has "Active PFC" ?



Thank you again @Aeacus for the great deal of help you are providing me with !

 

[Aeacus]

You're welcome.

Oh, i wouldn't say that chances of using simulated sine wave UPS effectively with Active PFC PSU are slim. Either it works or it doesn't work at all. Or in other words: 50:50 chance.

When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)

From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: http://www.minutemanups.com/support/pwr_un10.php

And here are explanations about the UPS design,
stand-by: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/ext/ups/typesStandby-c.html
line-interactive: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/ext/ups/typesLineInt-c.html
online: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/ext/ups/typesOnLine-c.html

Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, like i said above, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave.

Also, every modern PSU has Active PFC and due to this, (sadly or luckily) true/pure sine wave UPS is the only good choice when it comes to the UPSes.

By looking the specs of CyberPower BR1000ELCD you initially thought going with, it seems that you're located in EU or similar place where Schuko ("CEE 7/3" sockets and "CEE 7/4" plugs) are in use. If that is the case, then i suggest that you go for the very same UPS as i have in use.

I have two of these in use: CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive),
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/CP1300EPFCLCD
video introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IURKCvLJpY
review: http://softwareboom.wirevalley.com/review-cyberpower-cp1300epfclcd/
amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/CYBERPOWER-CP1300EPFCLCD-Line-Interactive-VorabAustauschservice-dt-Software/dp/B0058RVIEC

Note: despite official specs saying it has 4x IEC C13 and 2x UK sockets, the one in amazon has 6x Schuko sockets.

I searched far and wide, read tons of reviews and watched plenty of videos before buying my UPSes. Since i'm all about practicality, longevity and ease of use, CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPSes were the best option among true/pure sine wave UPSes. And the small footprint of the UPS itself is also a bonus when you don't have lots of free space.
CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPS is also 3rd best UPS of 2019, further reading: https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-uninterrupted-power-supplies

Runtime wise; my PC at idle stays running about 35mins and my PC at full load stays running about 15 mins. And under the spoiler is combined image of my UPSes, click on spoiler to view.

Spoiler

Top left: After unboxing
Top right: Power-on test
Bottom left: Haswell build UPS in service
Bottom right: Skylake build UPS in service
(Full PC specs with pics in my sig)

However, if you're located in The States, say so. So that i can link the CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPS with NEMA sockets.

 

[elhadi91]

Thank you very much again for the detailed explanation, as know thanks to you i know much more about UPS and the key criterias to look for in a UPS before purchasing any of them. I appreciate you sharing with me your personal UPS, that's inspiring in a way

However, if it's a 50:50 chance i am not gonna risk it. But unfortunately, the product that you were kind enough to share the link of is not available in my country which is Morocco (North-west of Africa) is not available for my country, even if it was it would cost me a lot with the custom fees consider the heavy weight of the item.

Therefore, i'm gonna keep searching throughly in my country to see if i can find a UPS similar to yours, as soon as i find one i will get back to you about it so you check on it together, therefore i have a few additional questions if you don't mind me asking:

- If the power capacity of the UPS is much higher than what i need, does that mean that the electricity consumption will equal all the time the power of the UPS or just the total power of my active/working devices ?
- If i use an external "extension lead socket" to get additional sockets, and i plug it with the UPS, will that cause any danger of any sort?
- Would you consider a topology "Line interactive UPS" even it's not "online topology" & Sinewave with an "Active PFC" PSU, as a good mix/combination ?


I'm certainly enjoying our conversation, as it is fruitful in it's informations. Always glad to see people like you in this community willing to help

 

[Aeacus]

You're welcome.

As far as UPS weight goes, the heaviest item within UPS is it's sealed lead-acid battery. Also, my UPSes weigh relatively less (9.9kg) compared to the other brand same spec UPSes i've seen, which have been 12kg and even 15kg.

Other than CyberPower brand, you can also look towards Tripp-Lite and APC. Just make sure UPS outputs true/pure sine wave and has enough capacity for your PC and monitors.

Q&A
1) Higher capacity UPS will give your PC longer runtime during blackouts. Also, higher capacity UPS may have a bit longer battery recharge than it's smaller capacity counterpart. Other than that, your PC won't consume more power in any way, shape or form just because you use e.g 1300VA/780W UPS instead of 1000VA/600W UPS.
UPS works just like PSU. Just because you have 600W PSU, it doesn't mean the PSU constantly outputs 600W to your PC. The PSU output wattage amount is directly dependent on the hardware utilization rate. Same is with UPS. If your PSU needs e.g 350W of power, that much power UPS will also deliver.

2) Avoid using extension cords with UPS though. It's not because UPS can't operate with extension cord but it's because of safety reasons. Which are:
* Overheating. The longer the cable - the higher the resistance and therefore the higher the load for extension cord. Higher load equals more heat and more heat will lead to a fire. Same is when the extension cord cable is thinner than the UPS'es power cable. Thinner cable equals higher resistance.
* Entanglement. Again, the longer the cable - the more likely you are to put something on it or trip over it or otherwise damage it.
If you still need to use extension cord with UPS, get the shortest extension cord possible where the cable of extension cord is as thick as the cable used to power the UPS.

3) That combination of line-interactive topology and true/pure sine wave output waveform is the best price to performance ratio you can get with UPSes. My 2x CyberPower UPSes have the same exact combination.
Online (double conversion) topology UPS is the best design there is though. Those are mainly used with servers and medical equipment where even the smallest power loss (under 1ms) isn't tolerated. But online design UPSes also cost a lot of money. Like i said above:"For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.".

 

[elhadi91]

Great to know. Thanks. I appreciate you taking the time to answer each one of my questions specifically, as those answers are realy important for me to know.

Now i'm narrowing down on what choose specifically, however i think i didn't express myself clearly, what i meant by "Extension cords" is not this: https://i.imgur.com/gdopNVx.jpg but rather this is what i want to plug to the UPS, it's this: https://i.imgur.com/xOjR8H0.jpg

Is that one safe to use ?

 

[Aeacus]

The two images you linked, on both of them is the extension cord. While the orange one is older version, the black one is newer version. The latter both extends and multiplies the power sockets. And some of them even have surge protector built in. The safety talk about extension cords applies to all kinds of extension cords.

Though, i'm wondering, why would you need to plug that multiple socket extension cord to your UPS? 1000VA+ UPSes have at least 4x output sockets, some have 6x (like mine) and others have even 8x. Your PC has one connector and your 2x monitors add 2x more connectors, making the total of 3x connectors plugged to the UPS.

 

[elhadi91]

That's realy good to know, Thanks. I'm glad i asked you because i had some doubts about those extenders, better to be safe than sorry !

You certainly have provided me with the solution, which is knowledge that will help me assess my choices better in the future regarding the UPS or PSU.

I hope you won't mind that if someday i need your expert consult i'll message you

So Thank you again for all the help you provided me with and foremost your patience. Deeply Greateful to you Aeacus.

My Kindest Regards,

 

[Aeacus]

You're welcome.

If you happen to contact me again in the future, include this topic link in the PM so i'd know whom i'm talking to.