Is Nvidia Coming Back?

snakej

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Well as the tittle said, im just wondering if Nvidia is planing to counter ATI against their Dx11 cards, and how?

i read around the net, about the gt300 series, that will have ddr5 and dx11 support.
but i also hear about a 5870x2 and a 5890 might be lying around, and also that 4890 might have dx11 support through drivers update.

dont know if any of this is true, basically i would like to hear what everyone have to say about these 2 companies and what are they gonna bring to the table for this Christmas as i need to get some gifts :D

even if its only an opinion it will be pretty much welcome and discussed.
 
Solution


True, however the R300 series took ATi from third place with half the market share of nV to second place with more market share than nV thanks to the success of the R300m despite all those dirty tricks which had Fanbois buying FX5600s instead of R9500s. [:thegreatgrapeape:5] Had it not been for the cheating err.... floptimizing, then it likely would've been worse.

And if we are talking about history the 2000's from ATI was the same time as the 8000's from Nvidia which was released much later then ATI's 2000 similar to how...

AsAnAtheist

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Okay, GT300 is real however Nvidia is a bit secretive about it. Some specs were rumored to be going around, however nothing proven yet. Yet it will have DX 11 support, and yes it will use GDDR5 memory. Nvidia isn't dying it's just cutting/reopening projects, reasons remain unknown.

5870x2 (Hemlock) is also real, not sure however when it will be released. Spec's are down and all however.
HD 5890, it will come out but at the moment most information are rumors.

HD 4890/some other recent Radeon HD cards are DX 10.1 compatible which share some features from DX 11, however they will NOT be compatible with Dx 11. Also the rumor going around of the HD 4890 being remade to DX 11 is FALSE. This is due to people predicting that the HD 4890x2 would come out near the time of DX 11, however no information has been given. ATI has not officially stopped the development. It could have been abandoned in place of the superior HD 5800s.

Nvidia won't be here for christmas, they're jewish this year. JK JK! Happy Hanukkah!
 

snakej

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you right

- even if Nvidia release by Xmass pricess wont be user friendly i believe, Nvidia Top Gpus never been cheap, oppose to ATI who's got the best and they are really good prices for the performance they offer.

- so whats the bottom line here guys? is it better to wait till Nvidia release their products to buy a video card or ATI crown's will remain?
 

snakej

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thanks for making that clear.

I believe it is as you say, Nvidia its coming with powerful gpus but ati has a couple of tricks under their sleve.

damn, i was actually exited to hear that 4890 might it have DX11 support by drivers as i own one, but i knew it was to much of a rumor to be true, i know that there is more tweaking to do between 5770 and a 5850 and there might be something just as powerful as a 4890 with dx11 support at a interesting price point like $200, there is more people (gamers included) that don't want to shell out more than that for a new GPU, I wish more company offer step up support like EVGA did with some Nvidia series.
 
My guess is it will be "history repeating itself" but just with nVidia being quite a bit late outta the gate this year. This guess says nVidia will again claim the performance crown at the hi end and ATI will be the "value leader" in the mid range market. But again, that's a guess, which is why I won't be laying out any money until late winter. ATI should be jumping on nVidia's problems right now and getting the 5870x2 out the door and wrestling the performance crown away that they have held for 10 months.

The more interesting thing to wonder about is will DX11 do any better than DX10 which was a big dud and ..... in a post "Batman" world ..... what will be more important DX whatever or PhysX ..... and will Havok come to be a factor ? Not to be left out is MSI's "Big Bang" which has also been delayed from its October 29 launch and is now expected in Q1, 2010.
 
Nvidia really needs to start sweating that DX11 issue, what could they possibly be thinking, man they're falling so far behind, Panic sets in !!!

But wait a minute ? How many games do you have that require DX11, or for that matter DX10.1?

None of my games do.

So it really boils down to the need, "The Need For Speeeeeeed"


Is Nvidia Coming Back?


Just because ATI finally got some serious competition on the market, doesn't mean Nvidia will roll over for them, it ain't over.

Both of the companies past history is really interesting, and if their track records have shown anything, there's more fun coming.

 

alikum

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@JackNaylorPE

There is no point releasing the 5870x2 now. Firstly, it is too damn expensive for people to afford, especially those on a budget. Secondly, there just aren't many games that require that much power. Thirdly, 5870 is already the best single GPU card out there, able to hold its own against the GTX295. Until nVidia comes up with something, I doubt Hemlock will be released anytime soon.
 


2nd place never matters. Does the silver medalist ever makes the Wheaties Box ? Does the backup quarterback ever get to nail the prom queen ?

The 295 adds 4% to system cost for a $2k system....and gives a 5-10% performance gain. What does everyone see when they load Crysis .... a big nVidia logo.....why nVidia, cause if you want to show off ya game, you want to show it in its best light and the 295 still will give the highest scores.

For the 295 to reign as the fastest single card solution come XMas would be a bad idea. To let that happen basically gives nVidia the crown for an entire year....that's way to long if you are trying to shake an image as the "value choice".

 

AsAnAtheist

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GTX 295 cannot be classified under the same category as a HD 5870 (which crossfired blows the GTX 295 out of the water.)

For one:
GTX 295=dual GPU. (2xGTX 280's with a little bottleneck for heating reasons).

HD 5870= Single GPU which pwns the GTX 280.
 
While I won't argue about the 295 still having a slight FPS edge, the only reason their logo is in the game is because they paid for it. If Intel wanted to I'm sure they could have 'Crysis plays best on intel integrated graphics' despite the fact the game would probably not load.

As to the question of 'is NVidia coming back?', the answer is quite simple, if they want to. They seem unsure of whether they want to be in the gaming section or not. Obviously, we all hope they will, and I for one would be a little surprised if they bet everything on Tesla/computing apps, but very little has officially been said about their gaming recently, so when or to what extent they will come back is anyone's guess. With the TSMC problems recently, it will probably be later rather that sooner and more expensive (and this goes for ATI's new cards as well).
 

snakej

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well its seems that Nvidia its doing a good job, keeping the new stuff in secret, very little is known, and this causes people like me to wonder.

there isn't many games that are supporting DX11, while this is true, any Gamer/pc builder knows that future proofing you rig is a good investment therefor powerful cards like 4890/gtx280 become a stupid choice at their price point, and this push us to buy the newer tech. its no secret that pc technology advance so fast that its almost impossible to keep up with it, almost all our decisions are base looking into the future, which is why i ask, if building a new rig now, should one buy a small/older card now and wait for Nvdia? or wait on the whole build altogether?

yes Nvidia try to sell games by stamping their logo and paying to tweak games performance to incline to Nvidia's side and some games operate better under their architecture, although this doesn't extend further away from hardware capabilities for instance resulting in a increase of only 2-5 more fps, however this open up a whole new market of people who think they need a Nvidia card to play their games.

going back to physics, do you guys think its gonna play a roll on any future games giving Nvidia a slightly advantage over ATI.
 
Well, I certainly hope that Physics (not PhysX) begins to play a larger role, as what little we have seen so far looks pretty awesome. However, we won't see it actually matter (beyond visuals, whilch do not effect gameplay. That is my definition of matters) until it is based off of a program that both ATI/NVidia cards can use. Otherwise, Ihighly doubt many (if any) game makers would take the risk of making their game for only one card or the other. And because consoles are behind on this front as well, I feel that Physics growth will be a bit stunted in the near future (unfortunately).
 


It's not second place in his statement. The RV870 is the most powerful chip out there. PERIOD.

What does everyone see when they load Crysis .... a big nVidia logo.....why nVidia,

Because they paid money. Are you that naive?

For the 295 to reign as the fastest single card solution come XMas would be a bad idea.

I would be worse to take a chip that's already selling out, where demand outstrips supply and then slap two of them together in order to sell it for less than twice the margin, and unless you think people would be willing to pay enough ($700+?) to generate twice the margin for whatever the increase in the price of the board is, there's no point other than e-wang. The Halo effect from an X2 card isn't needed right now, they need it more in the new year when demand might slow to below supply.

To let that happen basically gives nVidia the crown for an entire year....

But only on paper, since it's only been a year since the paper launch, not the actual product.

that's way to long if you are trying to shake an image as the "value choice".

Who's trying to shake that image? That's what makes them money and what most people look for. The e-wang market doesn't pay the bills, it's the mid-range that makes the money and that's where the 57xx and 56xx series matter far FAR more than Hemlock.

in a post "Batman" world .....

People keep wondering whatever happened to the post Mirror's Edge world....
Where they wondered whatever happened to the post GRAW world.... :pt1cable:

Batman is not a game changer, Crysis was, but that's pretty much it recently for games that had a major impact of the level of Half Life or Doom. The UE3 engine has had an impact, but it wasn't Batman that started that, with the influence of UE being the sum of it's parts, not any one title, all of which have had only mild success this generation compared to games like Crysis and Call of Duty, and is even currently outsold by GTAIV.

Batman is just another blip on the Radar full of Blips, only fans of Batman or PhysX consider it as anything more than that. :heink:
 
As for the OP, of course nV is coming back, but they are looking to comeback in a different way, moving towards a less game-centric future.

Fermi (F100) information is out there, look it up, it's what the G300 solution will be based on.

As for the HD4890 having DX11, no. Not as you would usually think of it, in hardware.... however.... it may essentially support DX11 features in emulation, which may be what nVidia does for some aspects of DX11 with the G300. Which may be the rumours you're hearing, and would be similar to alot of the feature support in intel's integrated GMA solutions, and we all know how well those perform in games compared to their 'done in hardware' counterparts. So while the HD4890 might be able to do some DX11 effects, they will likely be noticeably slower at doing so, and likely to lose handily to the new mid-range.
 

Harrisson

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When you think about it, it makes little sense for AMD to emulate DX11 in software for previous gen. Those parts are EOL soon anyway, while they can focus on DX11 HW for all markets. DX11 on 4000 series would very slightly improve DX11 adoption rate, but at the same time slow down upgrade sales and increase support cost, by a LOT, therefore its safe to assume it wont happen.
 
I'm not saying AMD will support or promote it, most companies work on the concept of planned obsolescence, with people buying new lamps for old; but that may be the source of the rumour, and it may be something that other people are working on.

The only way it makes sense for AMD is if ATi want to expand the install base for a feature or game that would help them overall in some other way leading to more sales or influence (which hopes to lead to more sales).

edit: let me expand on that last bit a little to illustrate my thinking, if AMD knows many HD4K owners have little intention of upgrading now, but that they will/may upgrade next year+ when AMD has another ATi chip launch; then providing this to existing HD4890 and 4770 users only (make up a PR reason or practical reason [like not enough power to emulate]) means that you earn bonus points with them for 'caring' about their customer, and you can buy alot of good will for what may be little investment. I don't believe in corporate altruism (and most altruism in general), but I do see a few potential benefits to such a move, which would not show immediate benefit, and might even be somewhat harmful to self in comparison, but it might be worth it in the end.

Anywhoo, just talking about possible sources for the rumours, not confirming their validity. :??:

 

tijmen007

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I hope they'll just carry on like they do and did before ( ATi & AMD ).

Having your opponent slowed down, like they do have now, it would be excellent to do something with drivers or do some research into more power efficient video cards, producing something faster and more powerhungry is not needed right now +overkilling isn't good for us costumers :D .
 
Well, define 'solid buy'. It is an excellent card, and if you had a really old or no card at all I'd highly suggest it. Or, If you currently are having severe trouble running current games, I'd highly suggest it. Otherwise, I'd say what's the rush. A 4890 is a fast card, and in the majority of cases you would probably see little increase, especially when compared to the price tag of a 5870. Not to mention, it is somewhat difficult (though certainly not impossible) to get one now due to short supplies. So, unless one of the conditions above (not fast enough with current card) applies, I'd probably wait and see what cool new stuff comes out (from both companies) as the major DX11 titles come out early next year.
 

LumberWagon

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I'm not sure about your area, but I "nailed" the "prom queen" ( ugh! at both those terms ) and I wasn't even on a sports team.
 

If any must have DX11 games appear anytime soonish, then going with a non DX11 card might be a mistake.
Thats the thing here, not availability.
If the OP is asking for new nVidia cards, the 295 certainly doesnt fit that bill, as its not even DX10.1 compliant its so old.
As for nVidias direction, we have to wait this one out, as its obvious theyll have something eventually, but the slowdowns on availability on ATI effects nVidia even moreso, because of the size of the chip theyll eventually release.
At this point, buying a higher end DX10 card, unless its a great deal, to me isnt an option, and I dont see any great deals out there
 
Oh, I didn't mean to suggest buying an old DX10 card now, I meant don't buy one at all (as the OP has a 4890, pretty much the best of last gen) if a new card isn't urgent or buy a 5870 if it is urgent. While DX11 is worthless right this instant, I agree that it looks far to promising to blow off, even in its first generation.