Is NVidia practicing intentional obsolescence?

[PCTechguy]

Hey guys!

I am making this thread with the aim of answering some questions, and because I've read many posts or articles ( a few) where for example, a driver (364.47 driver) causes problems.

So the problem is, I've read how NVidia is "downgrading" their own last g en (900 series) GPUs by installing / releasing new drivers, in order to have the current (10 series) shine.

So practically speaking, if this is true, which I feel it is, any GTX card will only last you 1-2 years.

I was intending to buy a GTX 1060, but reflecting on the fact on how the last gen (900 series) is so easily outperformed (1060 beating 980) I am having some reserves.

Now, I am all for hardware to become better faster. So initially, I do not see a GTX 1060 beating a 980 as a bad thing - great progress - on the surface.

But I feel, it is not worth it, if true, to buy a GTX 1060 only for it to be outdated 2 years from now. Or even 1 year from now. If it performs terribly because NVidia trashes their own GPUs just to make their current one look better by trashing a GTX 980. I do not have the money to upgrade every 1-2 years.

Because if a GTX 1080 in the future is beat by a 1160, then I see some fishy stuff going on. Like releasing drivers for the previous gen, that makes it worse.

I may be misinformed tho. So is NVidia practicing intentional obsolescence in order to "force" their customers to upgrade.

 

[neblogai]

I do not think nVidia intentionally makes older GPUs go slower with new drivers. They might limit functions and software to the latest generation cards, and optimise drivers for speed on latest generation, hurting older generation unintentionally. Also, they often release graphic cards with small VRAM amount, like GTX780Ti 3GB, GTX960 2GB, or GTX1060 3GB. These cards are usually released with very fast memory, so on launch day perform well in benchmarks, however in a year or two limited VRAM starts hurting performance.

 

[burgessanthony]

They heavily optimise their current stuff (lower bandwidth/bus width but compression cleverness etc)...i don't believe they cripple old cards with driver stuff.

 

[cream]

spot on thinking no company will hold back not making monies if like before we the public buy up last yrs models but like their pricing on their new cards is how much to much gone are the days of 3dfx cards selling at 120 pounds now we have them 600 or more funny nay they being greedie unless we fall for it to buy or not to buy right now im sticking with my last purchase of nvidea last batch of 970 if they stiching the customers up they will be caught out by others so yes you on to them it seems jeff

 

[PCTechguy]

I am just like - What is the point of paying 600+ cash for 1080 when, presumably, it will be beat by a 1160 1 and a half year from now?

Secondly, is it really worth it, if it is only going to last me 1-2 years (1060)?

It just seems fishy to see a GTX 980 be beat by a 1060. Should I go for AMD instead?? I mean, I know, GTX 1060 is better than a RX480. But if a GTX 1060 is only going to last me 1-2 years. And RX480 will last me 4 years. Isn't RX480 a better choice?

I want a card that will last me minimum 4 years on 1080p 60fps Ultra settings. (And perhaps in the 3-4th year, down to High)

But realistically speaking, both AMD and Nvidia are a business, so they want them money. But I find it unacceptable for them to install drivers that make them not work optimally.

 

[sizzling]

At 1080p my 780 is only just starting to show its age, it generally gets a solid 60fps in the games I play at high settings. I've had it 3+ years and zero sign of modern drivers crippling it, that sounds like the BS of NVidia haters. This card could probably go on for another year or two if I was willing to drop settings to medium-high in newer games. However I an going to do a whole rig overhaul and move to 1440p. So how long a gpu lasts is down to how fussy the user is about using higher resolutions and always having to use very high/max settings.

 

[PCTechguy]

So do you think a GTX 1060 will last me 4 years?

the first 1-2 years I want it to run max settings 60fps 1080p.

I am fine with later down the line to tune down the settings to High-Ultra. And even Med-High.

So how long will a GTX 1060 6GB last me on 1080p 60fps, at Ultra until I have to turn down to High?

I am willing to go from Ultra to Medium depending on the longevity of the GPU. So if I can run Ultra for 2 years, and the next 3-4 years I have to turn down to High, and then another 2 years down to Medium, I am fine with that.

But it seems like wishful thinking. Then again, I only own a GT 540m .

 

[burgessanthony]

The only clearer thing is that to keep temps/cost etc down they heavily optimise for current gen. So if you look at benches now of newer, maybe unoptimised games, start to see the older gen amd pulling ahead of similar spec old gen 900 series. Not in all cases, but as the ability of things like compression get pushed,for example, they suffer a bit.

I don't know.for sure. Any powerful 900 series card is still.more than ok today, and as above, higher end 700 series won't be able to max out, but can run high settings still.

 

[burgessanthony]

Depends...unoptimised rubbish like Mafia 3, fallout? maybe a year ultra. Proper DX12 stuff? I'd say couple of years. Depends heavily on how developers go and how many poor PC ports we keep seeing.

 

[renz496]

what people often forget is the new architecture is refinement over the previous one. there will be new feature on the new architecture. and as game being develop to use more and more advance feature we will see this new cards going to be faster than the older one because they might have better support on certain things that other wise it is not as good on previous gen architecture. in case of 1060 the performance is a bit under 980 but in DX12 stuff or Vulkan the 1060 might be able to outperform 980 because 1060 contains new improvement to take advantage new API better than 980.

in some games i see 970 can be as fast as 1060 and in other games i see 1060 is about as fast as 980. so it will be depending on how games taking advantage of the new feature incorporated in 1060. look for this as an example:

http://images.nvidia.com/geforce-com/international/images/gears-of-war-4/gears-of-war-4-nvidia-geforce-gtx-ultra-performance-640px.png

http://images.nvidia.com/geforce-com/international/images/gears-of-war-4/gears-of-war-4-nvidia-geforce-gtx-insane-performance-640px.png

as you can see on ultra the performance reflect where all those cards was supposed to perform. only on insane we see pascal pulling ahead of maxwell most likely insane setting using more feature than pascal is better than maxwell.

 

[burgessanthony]

^agree. Difficult to call at this exact point because of DX12 and the bump with Pascal. DX12 is sort of changing things for last gen, sometimes showing a boost to AMD (BF1, hitman) sometimes no difference (Doom)

 

[renz496]

the thing is stuff like this are not happen to nvidia only. this is also true for AMD. take Forza 3 for example. seeing how RX480 about on par with nvidia GTX1060 seems about right. but things change drastically when we include last gen card. Fury X for example only perform on the same level as RX480.

http://www.overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2016/09/28132656313l.jpg

 

[burgessanthony]

^Indeed, its becoming very game specific now, which makes it harder to call each generation.

It is also hard to know which way it will go, so makes purchasing more difficult.

 

[hang-the-9]

Hey guys!

I am making this thread with the aim of answering some questions, and because I've read many posts or articles ( a few) where for example, a driver (364.47 driver) causes problems.

So the problem is, I've read how NVidia is "downgrading" their own last g en (900 series) GPUs by installing / releasing new drivers, in order to have the current (10 series) shine.

So practically speaking, if this is true, which I feel it is, any GTX card will only last you 1-2 years.

I was intending to buy a GTX 1060, but reflecting on the fact on how the last gen (900 series) is so easily outperformed (1060 beating 980) I am having some reserves.

Now, I am all for hardware to become better faster. So initially, I do not see a GTX 1060 beating a 980 as a bad thing - great progress - on the surface.

But I feel, it is not worth it, if true, to buy a GTX 1060 only for it to be outdated 2 years from now. Or even 1 year from now. If it performs terribly because NVidia trashes their own GPUs just to make their current one look better by trashing a GTX 980. I do not have the money to upgrade every 1-2 years.

Because if a GTX 1080 in the future is beat by a 1160, then I see some fishy stuff going on. Like releasing drivers for the previous gen, that makes it worse.

I may be misinformed tho. So is NVidia practicing intentional obsolescence in order to "force" their customers to upgrade.

Not sure what your question or comment is here, you say the new video cards are faster than the old cards. Not sure what the issue is there. I don't think I've seen a driver that makes an older card perform worse than it used to unless there was some bug in the driver that would be fixed, or just use the older driver that works better with the older card.

Why would not a hardware maker, or anyone, make their new product better than the old to get new sales and upgrade sales? They don't make the hardware for charity, and there are very often driver optimizations for older cards also to work better with newer games even then.

I don't think there is a single hardware part that you can't replace with a better one in a year or two. But most often they are not "outdated" then, a GTX 1060 will be a good gaming card for quite a few years. Now if you buy a low end card now that is barely OK for games today, in 2-3 years it will be too slow.

 

[PCTechguy]

I've no problem with them releasing new drivers to make better their new drivers. But what I don't like is, when they release drivers that directly "downgrade" a GPU.

The prices for the GPUs do not reflect the actual prices for the GPUs. They are artificially inflated.

Anyways, I have a question regarding installing GPUs.

How do I install a GPU without the driver's disk and a DVD? I am trying to figure out how to install drivers without DVD?

I want my GPU to last at least 4 years into the future. (I know there is no such thing as "future proof" because we don't know the future.)

How can one use a GPU without any drivers installed?

 

[bignastyid]

I have heard the old "nvidia drivers make older cards slower" argument before. And from what I have seen its a bunch of bovine poop. I have a GTX 770 in my htpc/guest gaming rig and it performs about the same as it always has performance has not dropped. It hasnt gone up as Nvidia is no longer tweaking the drivers to increase performance on the older cards but this doesnt mean they are degrading the performance either.

I never use the disc that comes with the card for drivers as they are usually outdated, i download the latest from the Nvidia or AMD. You can download the latest nvidia driver from geforce.com.

 

[bicycle_repair_man]

I agree, it isn't a case of drivers being deliberately gimped, it's a case of drivers not being optimised for older cards. I'm in the GTX 770 boat, and whilst I've not seen an improvement with new drivers, I've not seen a decline either.

AMD are just the same, as renz496 said.

 

[PCTechguy]

Well the cards right now aren't reflecting its performance. A GTX 1060 6GB is $325 - 415. WAY too expensive,

The cheapest I can find is a 1060 3gb ~270 dollar card.

 

[bignastyid]

Must be in Canada. In the US the 6gb 1060 starts at $250($200 for the 3Gb model) so does its competition the 8Gb RX480. Even in Canada the 1060 and 480 are in the same price range.

 

[burgessanthony]

Same in UK in terms of pricing similarity between the 2, and less than 300$ equivalent

 

[PCTechguy]

I am most worried about how I am going to install drivers without disk.

What happens if I start up and install windows 10 without installing any drivers on my GPU, etc?

Btw, my setup will be this:

Gigabyte GA-Z170-Gaming K3
i5-6500
8GB 2133Mhz
Cooler Master Hyper TX3i
GTX 1060 6GB (cheapest 6GB version: $325)

 

[bignastyid]

Windows will use a basic vga driver till you get the video driver installed.

You don't need an optical drive to install drivers. I usually just toss thr included discs or leave them in the box. When I install drivers I always get the latest drivers from the manufacturer and put them on a usb key for easy install.

Why the z170? You have a locked cpu and a gpu that doesnt support SLI so I see no need for a z170 board.

 

[PCTechguy]

So Windows 10 will use basic vga drivers?

Correct me if I am wrong. If I install windows 10, without installing any drivers with the CD. Windows 10 will install whatever driver for GPU, motherboard, etc.

I have a USB with plenty of space, So do I just stick the USB in my new PC and boot from that USB?

If that is the case, can I install GPU drivers, etc. Before installing Windows 10 at all?

Or can I just go ahead, install Windows 10 first (from USB) then install GPU drivers etc. IF I install drivers AFTER windows install, should I first uninstall current drivers and THEN download and install new drivers, or install new drivers, and then uninstall the old drivers?

my educated guess would be install drivers then uninstall the older drivers, but won't that cause problems?

I have changed from a Z170 motherboard to a MSI B150 Gaming M3, Socket-1151.

I initially went with a i5-6600K but since I realised that overclocking wouldn't be covered by the warranty, I wouldn't take the risk.

I am a bit paranoid on how to install drivers without a disk. And even if I got the drivers on a USB from the website (EVGA website or NVidia website - does it make a difference? Can I install from Nvidia website?)

Anyways, I will just use my common sense.

 

[renz496]

for drivers just get it straight from nvidia. board partner did provide driver download from their site but it is still the same offered by nvidia. and sometimes board partner did not update their package so if you end up downloading drivers from their site it most likely it is not the latest driver for the card. win 10 will auto download the drivers but i don't think they keep it up as fast as gpu maker did. in the end if you want the latest driver you still need to download directly from nvidia.

 

[PCTechguy]

How do I directly download from NVidia before installing windows?
I.e. How do I install a driver from a USB to a PC with no OS installed?