Is Obama afraid of Putin?

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No, it's just that Obama gets no respect from the world. When Obama (or his administration) speaks, the world laughs. It's impossible to issue threats and ultimatums when you are a joke to those you mean to influence.
 

gropouce

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You know the whole world thinks ? you're a freakin' genius ! .... AND you're wrong.
"The worlds" doesn't laughs at all. And your president may be more respected in foreign countries than in US.



Good point.

Hope you was telling the same with Afghanistan, Iran, Irak, and all African countries... =)

 

calza

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Not a big believer in NATO then?
 

wanamingo

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NATO wont do anything, Ukraine isn't a full fledged member. They could use some political pressure to get support against Putin but thats about it, same with the UN. Russia also has been hitting the propaganda pretty hard making an objective look into the situation that much harder.

Russia wants to retain full control over their oil pipeline and only warm water port. If they manipulate the situation to start a civil war (Unmarked troops...?) they can fund Pro-Russian groups from behind the scenes. Or like they did in Georgia in 2008 have a scenario where it appears as though you were attacked first, then NATO and the UN are totally fine with whatever you have to do.

I cant stand the hypocrisy of western powers (See: America) telling Russians they cant protect their interests in another country. I dont agree with it, I think we should find a way to keep everything from boiling over until after the election, this way we would at least have a "legitimate" government elected by the people. And assuming no external interference it would be a good metric of what the Ukrainians actually think.

Basically we really dont like it when the Russians do the same exact shit we do.
 

chunkymonster

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I think Obama is a failure as a leader, ruled by ideology, and unable to connect with anyone having a different world view. I don't think he's fearful, I think he's just too blind and unable to fully comprehend the big picture or understand Russia's motivations.

Mingo summed it up nicely with...
Russia wants to retain full control over their oil pipeline and only warm water port.
It does make me laugh that both Palin and Romney expressed caution about Russia and Putin when it came to the Ukraine. It's got to be killing the Obama Adminstration that their criticism is being thrown back in their faces.
 

calza

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He asked why it was his problem.

USA is part of NATO. Granted Ukraine isn't a NATO member but it's right on their doorstep. Of course NATO has to be alert to this!
 

wanamingo

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Its tricky... NATO protects its economic interests first, thats its main mission is to bolster political and economic trust in these countries. They didnt step in during the Georgia conflict, its very easy for a world superpower to position itself as the attacked not aggressor, which is what happened in Georgia. Russia said it was attacked then it was fair game. The UN is like the grandparent of all the countries involved and the two biggest are about to have a serious argument, if they step in one way or another someone is going to get pissed off.

This is basically throwing American foreign policy in our face. Obama is in a bad place because he could either interfere with Ukraine boosting our image as a hegemonic world power. If Obama backs down (which he probably should, take the moral high ground and turn the focus back on Russia) its going to give the neocon warhawks that much more leverage in the next election cycle and we will hear ad naseam about how weak of a leader Obama and the democrats are. If we get more of these pro intervention politicians, even if they dont want war they will have locked themselves into a narrative that pretty much requires all reaction to be intervention.
 

MU_Engineer

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Obama is a 1960s-esque leftist. He thinks that diplomacy can solve everything as everybody is a 100% rational actor in foreign relations and everybody wants to avoid military action at all costs. (This is the 1960s "can't we all get along together?" ideology.) However he fails to realize that the "bad actors" in the international stage aren't what we in the West would call rational actors. They are extortionists (North Korea, Iran) and "might makes right" (Russia) sorts of folks. They don't put the same value on human life and standard of living as we do. If some nobodies die in a war that gives the aggressor more power, that isn't a big loss at all to them, although it would be absolutely horrible to most of the Western world. Thus those folks do what they do because they know we, who play by different rules, won't stop them. It's Psychology 101 but it doesn't jive with Obama's ideology so he ignores it. (Off topic, but ignoring basic psychology as well as junior-high macroeconomics is why Obama's Keynsian stimulus programs, wealth seizure + redistribution, and Obamacare have failed so miserably.)

I actually feel sorry for Obama here with his foreign policy issues. (I don't feel sorry for him with his domestic policy as he has painted a bull's-eye on me as the enemy, being a married Caucasian male who is employed, entrepreneurial, and a strict constructionist. His domestic policies make me the bad guy and are very painful to me, my wife, and my family as a result.) I know quite a few people who seem to genuinely believe the same exact ideology that he does. They just can't get their heads around the fact that their ideology fails in the face of the real world although they mean well.

The only truly rational things to do are to either call out Russia on their invasion of Crimea and send the military after Russia as the de facto world police to defend the Ukraine or we ignore him and let him essentially annex Crimea and possibly a few more provinces of the Ukraine with nary a whimper. Obama is probably by default (of not doing anything thinking diplomacy will work, not by an actual rational calculation) going to let Putin do whatever he wants. This will embolden Russia and weaken ourselves on the global stage but will allow Obama to concentrate on his real, domestic, enemies such as entrepreneurial white males who have become modestly successful and oppose his statist takeover of the formerly great Unites States.
 

musical marv

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Russia is really the problem we will be confronted with not the Ukraine.

 



Ahh, so the actions of Russia, Iran, No. Korea, China, Syria, Cuba, etc. are out of respect? Even our allies don't trust him (i.e. Israel, England, etc.) and know he talks a lot but takes little to no action. I don't see any of our enemies exhibit any fear or take pause when dealing with Obama. They all know that appeasement is his strategy and he doesn't have the strength or stomach for real action. Most recent evidence is Russia taking the steps they have, virtually ignoring warnings from Obama.

While you may think he's respected, the leaders of countries on the current world stage don't seem to agree. All you have to so is read or watch the news to see numerous examples of what I'm saying.

Back to the topic: This situation is a lose-lose for Obama, there is nothing Putin wants from us, so no way to appease him to back off, and military action would be horrific for the world. I think the only thing Ukraine can do is try to work through the U.N. and try to get pressure put on Russia to stop. Though I doubt that would happen. At this point Putin will stop when he wants, which will likely be after re-assembling the USSR.
 

OptimusPavlos1

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Unusual topic to be discussing on toms hardware but anyway to the point. You can hardly blame Obama as he holds as much power as the queen its the congress that has the real power. Barrack o Burger is but an image
 


2 things wrong with this analogy:

1. The so-called queen has zero power, she is just a extremely rich person with a meaningless title. Everyone knows this is far from true with the POTUS
2. I've been hearing for YEARS that it's all Bush's fault for getting us into Iraq and Afghanistan. Nothing about the congress that bi-partisanly voted to enter those wars. Any action taken (or not taken) will be on Obama. Period.

On topic: I have nothing against Ukraine, but I really don't see world war 3 starting to keep Russia from overtaking it. If Obama committed troops to stop Putin, that is essentially what would happen. The U.S. has the military might to topple any nation on the planet, except Russia. Only other outcome I could see happening from committing troops would be a post WW2 Germany situation, divided into 2 parts. Again, unlikely.
 

musical marv

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I think if we went to war with Russia God forbid we would win.We have the money and military backing.

 
I have a lot of confidence in our military, but in an all out war, I think it would be mutual annihilation. No one would win. In a cold war situation again, with the "leaders" we have now, we would probably crumble economically. Kind of like the USSR did.

But, from the news reports, Obama is all but being ignored by Putin. The lack of respect for Obama and the admin is frightening, I don't think we have ever had a president that was flat out ignored like this. I've always believed that the threat of war is what keeps the peace, remove that threat, and we get what we have now...
 

gropouce

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If you refer to what i said months ago, that was not my point, mate. =)
I said i can't imagine any land war in order to occupate US, but destruction.
No occupation. The only land war i can envision is a war from inside, sort of civil war.
That doesn't mean land wars are over in the rest of the world.
Just look at African countries...

Again, i don't think Obama is ignored or unrespected by the rest of the world.
He is quieter than he was month ago and we hear more from John Kerry about Ukrainan folder.
Don't forget that this guy has greatly improved image of united states in the world.
Without Obama, your country would diplomaticaly have been a tragicomedy without happy end, worse than Bush's times.

 


There is no winning a war that could result in Nuclear Weapons being used Marv!

I fully agree with those saying we should stay the hell out of it, let them solve their own damn problems!

Are you having doubts about your precious Obama now Marv?

Do you think President Obama is fearful of Putin with this situation in the Ukraine now?
You want our opinions regarding his level of fear? :pfff:

You were the biggest Obama flag waver, have you jumped the fence?

Obama is not the one that does the fighting Marv!

Our soldiers are not expendable!

 
@Martell1977

Your avatar reminds me of my old 1976 Chevy Scottsdale, :love: It was a true show truck 350ci engine, headers, high rise intake, chrome everywhere under the hood, with a transmission shift kit and a silver pearl Emron paint job!

It had been lowered half way, and the 4/11 rear end and was a total killer off the line, embarrassed many a Corvette and Sports car owner showing off for his girl from a redlight.

Of course with a 4/11 rear gearing a little past 90mph was top end, but it was a blast getting there!

After it scorched a couple of Vettes even though they could have taken it on top end they were too intimidated to try again they got whipped so bad the first time! :lol:

It caught fire and burnt from a cracked glass gas filter, pumping fuel onto the engine block, and was completely totaled in 7 minutes! :sad:

I miss my truck! Ry

Sorry for the thread off topic Marv!
 

Reynod

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History, ethnicity or Russian politics ... perhaps because you guys read too much Western Media.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/this-map-explains-why-russia-is-invading-crimea-2014-3

Obama abd Kerry shuld keep out of this one ... its none of their business.

Russia sees the unrest in the Western Ukraine differently than us ... they view the rioters in Kiev as dissidents who brought down a legitimate govt.

Putin sees this as his worst future nightmare ... remember Gadaffi anyone?

The Crimea was ceded to the Ukraine years ago by the USSR simply as a place to put it ... in their vast empire.

Over 60% of Crimeans see themselves as Russian ... and Russia is protecting their Russian interests in Crimea.

They are considered a semi-autonomous state and have been for some time.

The warm water port, Eastern Crimean relative wealth and technology compared to the argrarian Western Ukrainem and strategic pipeline a plus.

Russia will wait till the Crimean vote to cede from the Ukraine and then formally join Russia as part of their country.

If the Ukriane takes a non-aggressive stance and focuses on electing a parliament proper for itself and sorting itself out russia will not likely pound their asses into the dirt.

It is unlikely Russia will invade the Ukhraine.

The US whilst being supportive with the EU of the Ukraine's financial plight should stay out of Crimea.

It would have ceded from the Ukraine in a month if it were not for the President of the Ukriane who went running to Putin for help.

Putin and for that matter everyone else knows the guy is corrupt ... but name one tin pot leader of any of those Eastern European countries who isn't sucking the life out o the people they represent ... including Putin.

Sadly we are all going to pay a premioum for this in short term gas / oil / energy increases.
 

musical marv

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Let us renege before more bloodshed spreads and billions spent for nothing!

 
So we're trustworthy now? OMG

Is that inward or outward?

Tell that to the American Indians.

Tell that to the American soldiers returning from the Korean War, (The so called Forgotten War!).

Tell that to the American soldiers returning from Vietnam. (Being spit on in train stations, buss stations, and airports!)

Tell that to the American Soldiers that died looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Tell that to the Iraqi citizens that thought we would back their play the first time we went in, (then pulled out and left them at Saddam Hussein's so called mercy!)

Just to mention a few infractions, why does the word trustworthy when it comes to my own US governments actions make me want to puke!

So why change now and actually become trustworthy when our soldiers are the ones that will actually pay the price?

I'm sick of our soldiers being used as pawns on a chess board, then when their families need support from the very government that demanded their sacrifice, could care less about their welfare!

We are not the worlds police force, and our soldiers are not expendable, we've long lost the honor of a death defending this country, playing in someone elses sandbox!
 

wanamingo

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http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-us-intelligence-russia-ukraine-20140303,0,4657644.story#axzz2v89d5ZPH

Legal loopholes. Ukraine and Russia had their own treaty in 97 that allows for up to 25,000 Russian troops to operate in Ukraine. Clever Putin is trying to goad Ukraine into attacking its forces to justify using those 25k troops, just like he did in Georgia.
 
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