Is Sony trying to 'Dreamcast' themselves?

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Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

Waitaminute, so if Playstation goes Blu-Ray, then all the current PS
and PS 2 hits will be unusable on the new system? And it wont' be able
to play DVDs? (Yes I know it's not a DVD PLayer but many kids use their
PSs to watch movies anyway).

Sounds risky to me. I've been reading up on google, and Sony fanboys
are confident that Blu-Ray will win out because it's just simply better
quality. Though at some point, I think they are diminishing returns.
It's like the difference over Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is the difference
between winning $275,000,000 or $250,000,000 dollars.

In which direction is Nintendo leaning?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

majiin99@cs.com wrote:
> Waitaminute, so if Playstation goes Blu-Ray, then all the current PS
> and PS 2 hits will be unusable on the new system? And it wont' be able
> to play DVDs? (Yes I know it's not a DVD PLayer but many kids use their
> PSs to watch movies anyway).
>
> Sounds risky to me. I've been reading up on google, and Sony fanboys
> are confident that Blu-Ray will win out because it's just simply better
> quality. Though at some point, I think they are diminishing returns.
> It's like the difference over Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is the difference
> between winning $275,000,000 or $250,000,000 dollars.

In many ways Sony's MD format is vastly superior to CDs. But which ones
do you see more often in stores?

--
Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits
is, of course, in a state of sin.
-John von Neumnn, 1951
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

majiin99@cs.com wrote:
> Waitaminute, so if Playstation goes Blu-Ray, then all the current PS
> and PS 2 hits will be unusable on the new system? And it wont' be able
> to play DVDs? (Yes I know it's not a DVD PLayer but many kids use their
> PSs to watch movies anyway).
>
> Sounds risky to me. I've been reading up on google, and Sony fanboys
> are confident that Blu-Ray will win out because it's just simply better
> quality. Though at some point, I think they are diminishing returns.
> It's like the difference over Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is the difference
> between winning $275,000,000 or $250,000,000 dollars.
>
> In which direction is Nintendo leaning?
>
Last I check, BlueRay is backwards compatable.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

<majiin99@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1109350119.380845.283290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Waitaminute, so if Playstation goes Blu-Ray, then all the current PS
> and PS 2 hits will be unusable on the new system? And it wont' be able
> to play DVDs? (Yes I know it's not a DVD PLayer but many kids use their
> PSs to watch movies anyway).

No reason why they cannot have two lasers - one for dvd and one for blue
ray.

> Sounds risky to me. I've been reading up on google, and Sony fanboys
> are confident that Blu-Ray will win out because it's just simply better
> quality. Though at some point, I think they are diminishing returns.
> It's like the difference over Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is the difference
> between winning $275,000,000 or $250,000,000 dollars.

It might be better quality, but is it cost effective?

> In which direction is Nintendo leaning?

Nintendo will probably lean their own route and have proprietry discs.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

Beck schrieb:
>>Waitaminute, so if Playstation goes Blu-Ray, then all the current PS
>>and PS 2 hits will be unusable on the new system? And it wont' be able
>>to play DVDs? (Yes I know it's not a DVD PLayer but many kids use their
>>PSs to watch movies anyway).
>
>
> No reason why they cannot have two lasers - one for dvd and one for blue
> ray.

Very likely three lasers, the two you mentioned and one for CDs. Maybe
they can get away with a PS3 without PS1 game compatibility but without
PS2 game compatibility they will give away a lot of potential and PS2
games can be on CD too.

>>In which direction is Nintendo leaning?
>
> Nintendo will probably lean their own route and have proprietry discs.

I don't think so. Nintendo repeatedly said in the last time that not
including DVD player capabilities was a mistake. And now we know that
the GC discs aren't that proprietary, but basically small single layer
DVDs with a custom filesystem and a special barcode for copy protection.
Beside the size of the discs, that is very similiar to the disks used in
PS2 and Xbox, they are both DVD based, but both are using custom
filesystems and copyprotection add-ons. I think Nintendo is either going
to use HD-DVD, DVD or maybe DVD playback and a something proprietary in
between of DVD and HD-DVD/Blueray.

Jan
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

Jan Lucas <jan@lucas-berlin.de> wrote:
>Beck schrieb:
>>>Waitaminute, so if Playstation goes Blu-Ray, then all the current PS
>>>and PS 2 hits will be unusable on the new system? And it wont' be able
>>>to play DVDs? (Yes I know it's not a DVD PLayer but many kids use their
>>>PSs to watch movies anyway).
>>
>>
>> No reason why they cannot have two lasers - one for dvd and one for blue
>> ray.

Didn't Sony make a combination DVD/CD laser? Or even one that
does all three?

followups to rgv.sony

--
Brad: Got a minute?
Lester Burnham: For you, Brad, I've got five!
-- AMERICAN BEAUTY (1999)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

majiin99@cs.com wrote:
> Waitaminute, so if Playstation goes Blu-Ray, then all the current PS
> and PS 2 hits will be unusable on the new system? And it wont' be able
> to play DVDs? (Yes I know it's not a DVD PLayer but many kids use their
> PSs to watch movies anyway).
>
> Sounds risky to me. I've been reading up on google, and Sony fanboys
> are confident that Blu-Ray will win out because it's just simply better
> quality. Though at some point, I think they are diminishing returns.
> It's like the difference over Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is the difference
> between winning $275,000,000 or $250,000,000 dollars.
>
> In which direction is Nintendo leaning?
>

A little more research on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD would have shown you that
both systems are backwards compatible with current DVDs.

Nintendo is going the HD-DVD route, which think is a mistake, as Blu-Ray
holds way more GBs, especially as Sony is researching 4- and 8-layer
Blu-Ray discs to hold 100-200 GB per side. HD-DVD only holds 15 GB per
layer, and up to two layers a side (though if the HD-DVD people got
their butts in gear and offered more than two layers per disc my opinion
would change and I'd say HD-DVD were more likely to succeed as it is
being released at the end of this year with about 89 titles including
Harry Potter).

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Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

In alt.games.video.xbox majiin99@cs.com wrote:
> Waitaminute, so if Playstation goes Blu-Ray, then all the current PS
> and PS 2 hits will be unusable on the new system? And it wont' be able
> to play DVDs? (Yes I know it's not a DVD PLayer but many kids use their
> PSs to watch movies anyway).

Sony has already said that PS3 will be backwards compatible with the PS2
(I would assume this would also mean it's backwards compatible with PS1,
but we'll see...) Obviously if they use blu-ray, they'll have to
incorporate a multi-laser drive to accomodate the older discs - gee, just
like blu-ray/HD-DVD players will have to.

> Sounds risky to me. I've been reading up on google, and Sony fanboys
> are confident that Blu-Ray will win out because it's just simply better
> quality. Though at some point, I think they are diminishing returns.
> It's like the difference over Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is the difference
> between winning $275,000,000 or $250,000,000 dollars.

Uh...I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the $275k. Maybe $25k
isn't a big deal to you - and if it isn't, can I have $25k? 😉

Even if the next generation of video disc is HD and not blu-ray, that
doesn't mean Sony can't use blue-ray to release games. In fact, it'd
actually be to their advantage since only the PS3 could read the discs,
and would put up a significant barrier to would-be casual pirates.

Now what does this have to do with Dreamcast and Nintendo? Nintendo's
Game Cube already uses a non-standard, proprietary disc format that makes
it all but impossible for the home user to copy. Yeah, there's a hack
that will allow you to play images from your PC, but it's pretty
complicated, and a lot more involved than simply sticking a DVDR into your
computer and hitting "BURN".
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

Jacob Oost schrieb:
> majiin99@cs.com wrote:
>
>> Waitaminute, so if Playstation goes Blu-Ray, then all the current PS
>> and PS 2 hits will be unusable on the new system? And it wont' be able
>> to play DVDs? (Yes I know it's not a DVD PLayer but many kids use their
>> PSs to watch movies anyway).
>>
>> Sounds risky to me. I've been reading up on google, and Sony fanboys
>> are confident that Blu-Ray will win out because it's just simply better
>> quality. Though at some point, I think they are diminishing returns.
>> It's like the difference over Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is the difference
>> between winning $275,000,000 or $250,000,000 dollars.
>>
>> In which direction is Nintendo leaning?
>>
>
> A little more research on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD would have shown you that
> both systems are backwards compatible with current DVDs.
>
> Nintendo is going the HD-DVD route, which think is a mistake, as Blu-Ray
> holds way more GBs, especially as Sony is researching 4- and 8-layer
> Blu-Ray discs to hold 100-200 GB per side. HD-DVD only holds 15 GB per
> layer, and up to two layers a side (though if the HD-DVD people got
> their butts in gear and offered more than two layers per disc my opinion
> would change and I'd say HD-DVD were more likely to succeed as it is
> being released at the end of this year with about 89 titles including
> Harry Potter).

For HD movies I think BluRay is way better because it able to store
movies with a small amount of compression, and HD-DVD needs more
effective algorithms like H.264 or VC-1/WMV9. But for games I think
HD-DVD is fine. Games using a whole DVD9 are pretty rare even these
days. Swapping a disc once in a >40h RPG isn't such a problem either.
And most big games uses huge parts of their game dvds to store
prerendered cut scenes, and as graphic capabilities are going to be a
lot better in next generation, there is no real need to do prerendered
sequences, the next gen game engines should be good enough to do that by
themself. 30GB per HD-DVD is enough for next gen games imho, even going
DVD9 wouldn't be too much of a problem. If Sony would decide to stay
with DVD9 in the next gen, it would cause a situation similiar to that
on the first Playstation, most games on single disc and some multidisc
stuff, like FF series. We would see something a 4 DVD9 FF XIII then,
with disc changes every 6 hours or something like that. Not too nice,
but I'm not sure if I a reliable DVD9 laser pickup and disc changes
every few hours on small number of games isn't still better than a, not
unlikely to be unreliable, BluRay laser pickup with no disc changes.
HD-DVD is a simpler technology, so it isn't unlikely to be more
reliable, even with the problematic blue laser it shares with BluRay.

Jan
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:26:31 -0000, Doug Jacobs
<djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:

>Sony has already said that PS3 will be backwards compatible with the PS2
>(I would assume this would also mean it's backwards compatible with PS1,
>but we'll see...)

Hard to say. After all, the Nintendo DS can play GBA games, but can't
play GB/GBC games, despite the fact that the GBA can play GB/GBC
games. It would really depends entirely on how Sony would decide to
implement the backwards compatibility.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

"drocket" <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote

>>Sony has already said that PS3 will be backwards compatible with the PS2
>>(I would assume this would also mean it's backwards compatible with PS1,
>>but we'll see...)
>
> Hard to say. After all, the Nintendo DS can play GBA games, but can't
> play GB/GBC games, despite the fact that the GBA can play GB/GBC
> games. It would really depends entirely on how Sony would decide to
> implement the backwards compatibility.

The PS3 could probably emulate the PS1 in software? The PS1 chipset is part
of the PS2 sound system anyway, so it would need to be emulated in some way
for the games to run I guess.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

freak wrote:
> What's interesting is that MS did not enable 480p in DVD playback on XBOX
> when none of their 3rd-party partners would have been adversely affected by
> it.
>
> Sure, some folks would have picked up the XBOX for the chance at getting a
> good DVD player, and they were losing money on each console. But what's
> wrong with putting a trojan horse out there? If something happens to be in
> every home in America, and network-capable, surely someoone would be clever
> enough to make content for it (like sewing tutorials or recipe programs or
> something). The only guys a cheap(er) progressive scan DVD player would have
> hurt at that time was Sony who -- of course -- ia a direct competitor.
>
> Just my .02.

....probably the only people who actually *need* 480p are people who own
tvs that will upgrade a 480i signal to 480p anyway, and *maybe* do an
even better job than the player (like the Pioneer Elite series).

--

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Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

Just a guess, but it's probably because Sony is one of the companies
behind Blu-Ray in general? The HD-DVD is done by a competing company.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

"GC could have been another N64 were
it not for this serious drawback."

You mean #2 in the US and #3 in Japan? :^)

I don't understand the N64 nostalgia. It was a decent system hobbled
with a cart port. It had more in common with the Jaguar than the
Gamecube.

- Jordan
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

Jordan wrote:
> "GC could have been another N64 were
> it not for this serious drawback."
>
> You mean #2 in the US and #3 in Japan? :^)
>
> I don't understand the N64 nostalgia. It was a decent system hobbled
> with a cart port. It had more in common with the Jaguar than the
> Gamecube.
>
> - Jordan

You're kidding right? Over thirty million N64s were sold versus about
18 million GCs. And there have been few GC games to match the level of
software sales that many N64 games routinely racked up (Goldeneye, OoT,
SM64, etc.).

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G e !h !r !y
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Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

In alt.games.video.xbox Jordan <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Just a guess, but it's probably because Sony is one of the companies
> behind Blu-Ray in general? The HD-DVD is done by a competing company.

Sony is behind Blu-Ray. Panasonic(or is it Phillips?) is behind HD-DVD.

I hope the standard is hammered out soon. I don't want a repeat of the
whole DVD +/-R +/-RW thing...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

yep it's another type of dvd disc
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

Jacob Oost wrote:

> Straw man arguments are easy to knock down. I was only defending the

> charge that the N64 was a Jaguar-like failure of a system, which is a

> totally bogus charge.

I never said that it was a Jaguar like failure... I said that like the
Jaguar it was bottlenecked by the cart port. The N64 was never able to
reach it's full potential due to the cart port.

- Jordan
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

The Playstation 3 could emulate the PS 1 Sony might not do that, but I think
they should since older games like Final Fantasy VII still sell even after
seven years since
it's release.

But then again, sometimes there comes the time when they have to let go of the
compatability and those systems eventually become "new" classics

RedFox wrote:

> "drocket" <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >>Sony has already said that PS3 will be backwards compatible with the PS2
> >>(I would assume this would also mean it's backwards compatible with PS1,
> >>but we'll see...)
> >
> > Hard to say. After all, the Nintendo DS can play GBA games, but can't
> > play GB/GBC games, despite the fact that the GBA can play GB/GBC
> > games. It would really depends entirely on how Sony would decide to
> > implement the backwards compatibility.
>
> The PS3 could probably emulate the PS1 in software? The PS1 chipset is part
> of the PS2 sound system anyway, so it would need to be emulated in some way
> for the games to run I guess.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

> But then again, sometimes there comes the time when they have to let go of
> the
> compatability and those systems eventually become "new" classics
>

Problem with backward compatibility is it costs more to build the console.
The GB/GBA/DS is a good example. The GBA had the hardward for the
GB/GBC built into it so it was backward compatable. A switch in the cart
port told the console which hardward to use. The DS has the hardware for
theGBA built in and when a GBA cart is put into that slot, the DS defaults
to that hardware. Doing this through software emulation is possible, but
generally
the games don't run as smoothly. (Look at difficulty in getting Atari 2600
ROM's to run on more advanced systems. They generally don't perform
as well on on the original.)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.nintendo (More info?)

Kevin J. Clark <SacredStearns@HotPOP.com> spewed:
> The Playstation 3 could emulate the PS 1 Sony might not do that, but
> I think they should since older games like Final Fantasy VII still
> sell even after seven years since
> it's release.

Bah... like you said later in your post... those old games will soon be
classics, and it would be better for Sony to just get their $$$ by releasing
a "classics" pack of those games rather than wasting time and resources
making a new new system emulate and old old system.


--
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