Is the ASUS crosshair V+580 giving biased results for the Bulldozer?

mailpranshu

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Hi Guys,

I have stumbled upon something rather strange. Like any other builder I had been waiting for the FX with bated breath. It has been a disappointment and all sites across the net have thrashed it. Let me summarize some of the obvious pitfalls detailed on Toms, Anands, X bit etc.

1. Performs lower than the 2500k.
2. Power consumption is high.
3. Single core performance is dismal. Worse than even the 1100T in some cases!!!!
4. Gaming performance is downright bad.

I am from an engineering background(electronics) and have an additional finance background as well(MBA finance). I know how companies work and the pricing made no sense to me in any scenario. Let me summarize again.

1. Why Had AMD prices something so high when it knows it will not perform from day 1?
2. Whats the point of making a sure shot loss from day 1?
3. Why is the gaming performance so dismal? Wasn't ultra high resolution gaming its USP?
4. Where is the overclocking? 4.5ish GHz???? That's it???!!!!!!!!
5. Was there any testing done? Even a simple die shrink would have improved heating and efficiency.

So I wanted to have a further look. This was a mystery that needed looking into. I also noticed something else. All the testing on all the sites has been done on this kit. Link below.

http://morethanchessagame.forumotion.com/t1987-amd-fx-bulldozer-press-kit-pictured-stuffed-with-fx-8150-cpu-asus-crosshair-v-formula-and-scorpius-platform-badge

Now, all big sites have been given this kit including Toms. It makes sense because I am guessing Asus has an agreement with AMD to make its mother boards the "official" ones for testing. Also all these sites have used a 580 GTX quoting minimal graphics bottleneck. I agree its a sound rationale.

I confirmed at some other sites as well. The Asus + 580GTX has been used pretty much everywhere.

Its then that I went over to hardwareheaven and had a look. They have stayed away from the press kit and used an Asrock board. Here is the review link.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1285/pg1/amd-fx-8150-black-edition-8-core-processor-vs-core-i7-2600k-review-introduction.html

Now, Toms has come up with results exactly the same as all other sites that used the press kit. Lets have a look at some big changes on the benches.

Also, all sites except hardwareheaven has used a 580Gtx. Lets have a look at some gaming benches. That's what matters to us right?

3DMark 11

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1285/pg9/amd-fx-8150-black-edition-8-core-processor-vs-core-i7-2600k-review-3dmark-11.html

Win

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8150-zambezi-bulldozer-990fx,3043-13.html

Massive loss!!!!!

F1 2011


http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1285/pg11/amd-fx-8150-black-edition-8-core-processor-vs-core-i7-2600k-review-f1-2011.html

Win

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8150-zambezi-bulldozer-990fx,3043-19.html

Massive loss!!!!!

Also when I go through the whole hardware heaven review it gives it a good rating placing it close to the 2600K and above the 2500K. Which in turn is in line with their strategy. It does lose in some benches but is still very very close to the 2500K.

This is extremely strange. Please go through the site yourself.

So to conclude:
1. Can Toms and others please do a test with other 990 boards?
2. Can we please have a comparison with more AMD and Nvidia cards?
3. Who do we trust? Isn't a biased review completely anti against AMD from day 1?
4. Can some one else independently run benches with the 2500K, 2600K and 8150 using different cards and mother boards?
5. Is there a Nvidia Intel nexus to make sure 8150 looks bad? Was the BFBC3 patch doctored for more than just RAGE???( remember Hawx 2 tessellation)

Please post links here. And don't post links for other sites as there is a strong anti AMD bias/ vibe. I think we users need to take things in our own hands and check this out. Can some one use their own personal hardware and run benches?

I am not an AMD fan or a conspiracy nut. I use both builds and use Nvidia as well. So lets keep this discussion open and friendly. No trolling please.

And can the seniors moderators and testers at Toms please step in and explain? Can a new test be done?
 

mailpranshu

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Its pretty strange mate. is that I am based out of Bangalore, India. And we wont get Bulldozer supplies for the next 15 days!!!! Can some of our our USA and Canada friends step in with results and benches?

Frankly the reviews have caused a lot of shock in the gaming community here. We are very upset with this fiasco.
 

Erusidhion

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You have a very good point, all the test sites did use the one kit and not the actual retail chip so I have been hearing though only few reviews have even bothered to mention it, not surprising. In the next week we'll see what is really going on with the chip. BIOS revisions, Windows 7 updates and maybe even perhaps other stuff. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

There is obviously something wrong with the benchmarks and I think a lot of people would agree. Not much you can do if it's a physical defect or architecture defect; here's hoping it's just a BIOS, OS, program problem. I have been looking at all the review sites myself and have been waiting for some reviews to go up from a fresh retail chip and haven't seen any yet.

If anyone sees any retail, store bought chip benchmarks going up please link them! Can't wait to see what the next two weeks brings. It does seem like the tested motherboard is pretty fail though, glad I picked up the MSI. I'm sure a BIOS update can fix whatever problem it has though.
 

mailpranshu

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When the 6970 was launched I remember very specifically that AMD placed it below the 580 and a direct competitor to the 570. That's exactly what it was. AMD knows where to place its products. They had placed the 8150 midway between the 2500K and 2600K. So why the colossal failure in logic here?

Business sense???? Or other influences?
 

mailpranshu

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I agree mate. But take any other review for example. The 580GTX was on the top in its first ever review. So was the 2500K. Why the massive difference here. And isn't day 1 reviews what really matters? These reviews are what people will look at when buying next for the next whole year!!!!!
 

Erusidhion

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Well I agree with all your points. The only counter argument I'm going to throw out there is, it is a new architecture, new motherboard etc. So it's possible that there is a bottleneck in the motherboard, BIOS, chip itself. Hopefully all these kinks will be worked out. Regardless that benchmark looks pretty sweet and I want to say it's 100% factual because they didn't use the same motherboard as all the other reviewers.

I am curious if a lot of reviewers are under some kind of clause NOT to use other motherboards. I'm not sure how the review process works. I'm just awaiting the flood of youtube videos within the next week with real-time benchmarks with the retail chips and then we'll see what happens.

I think AMD was successful with this architecture, albeit a little drawn out. At least it isn't even close to being a failure. Have to give AMD credit where it's due for taking this risk with Bulldozer.

I hope all the bad reviews will get revisited. I think all the people that visit these sites and are loyal fans and contributors deserve a revisit with a different setup after maybe a month or so. I guess let's just see what happens in the next 30 days. :p
 

mailpranshu

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What I feel sad about is that this always ends up happening with AMD. I am guessing 90% of people are already turned off, have labeled it a failure and moved on.
 

c_h1132

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wow, im glad you found this out. i been reading reviews all over and bulldozer has been a disappointment, but with this review BD is actually good!!! please more reviews with different setups!!!
 

mailpranshu

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Can toms please re do their numbers with multiple cards and mo-bo's? Lets face it. We are on a cusp. If AMD fails here they will fail over all. And I for one don't want to exist in an Intel monopoly.

I think old users like us end up suffering the most. A monopoly is always bad. Look at graphics now. Its so damn competitive.

I think its unfair to label something a failure without a couple of checks and thorough testing first.
 

mailpranshu

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Its almost as if people were just waiting for the FX to fail....pretty damn sad....
 

se7envii

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+1. I'm about ready to make a purchase but am wondering which CPU (i7 2600K vs 8 core AMD) would perform better for the next 2-3 years. I have dual 6950s and will be moving to Windows 8 and right now the 2600K looks a lot more tempting after reading reviews of the 8150. But if the 8150 might do better on Windows 8 and future apps within this time span along with dual GPUs it could make all the difference. Also would be interesting to know which chip is best for dual gaming and workstation use (virtual machines, web development, programming, and gaming).

Edit: Also multi-monitor testing would be cool too since I'm running a 3 monitor setup. From leaked slides they were showing AMD's chips with benefits at ultra high resolution run in eyefinity. But maybe I'm asking for too much.
 

mailpranshu

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Good point........
 

Sky03

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Something doesn't make sense though. Didn't AMD provide this ki that included the suspect mobo? If so, i can only see 2 problems with that:

1. They didn't test their cpu on said mobo (kinda careless and dumb if so)
Or
2. They did, but either a. That's what they really expected as results or b. They decided to go through even though they know it impairs their cpu.

 

mailpranshu

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And a quick run through of some compiled screenshots.













Are the guys at Anandtech aware yet? Or is this more of a Toms story as of now?

Thanks to tulx!!!!!!

I just wish some one from Toms or AMD would actually look into this!!!!!!
 

mailpranshu

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The more I read the more I feel that the guys at AMD have made a massive mistake by keeping Asus as their official test kit partners.

Is this going to be its bane??



Also when is it available for retail in the USA?? Any ideas? I have a feeling till guys like us don't get their hands on something concrete its going to be a shot in the dark.
 

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