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Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Canada has the world's longest coastline, which nation has the second
longest?

--Jeff

--
Americans will always do the right thing
- after they have exhausted every other
possibility. --Winston Churchill

Loyalty to the country always, loyalty
to the government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

Rain on a tin roof sounds like a drum.
We're marching for freedom today-ay!
So turn on your headlights
and sound your horn,
if people get in the way. --Neil Innes
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jeffrey Turner (jturner@localnet.com) writes:
> Canada has the world's longest coastline, which nation has the second
> longest?

Since I would answer Russia to the question to which country has the
longest coastline, I will have to answer Russia to this one.

Not that this is a particular clear-cut question, since there is a lot of
ifs and buts. The most important one is of course that about any coastline
is infinitely long if you count all small irregularities. Islands are
also an issue. Canada has bigger islands than Russia. And even if you
exclude islands, you may still wonder if the question is about contiguous
coastline or if all stretches are counted.

That leads to a counter question, which country or countries have the
higbest number of separate pieces coastline, not counting coastlines of
islands? And what is the number?

--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Erland Sommarskog wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner (jturner@localnet.com) writes:
>
>>Canada has the world's longest coastline, which nation has the second
>>longest?
>
>
> Since I would answer Russia to the question to which country has the
> longest coastline, I will have to answer Russia to this one.

Nope. Russia's number three. Japan is number four.

> Not that this is a particular clear-cut question, since there is a lot of
> ifs and buts. The most important one is of course that about any coastline
> is infinitely long if you count all small irregularities. Islands are
> also an issue. Canada has bigger islands than Russia. And even if you
> exclude islands, you may still wonder if the question is about contiguous
> coastline or if all stretches are counted.

This isn't a study in fractals. Islands count. All stretches are
added together. For the US that would mean adding the coasts of
Alaska, Hawaii, and the Atlantic, Gulf and Pacific coasts, etc.,.

> That leads to a counter question, which country or countries have the
> higbest number of separate pieces coastline, not counting coastlines of
> islands? And what is the number?

hrm... The US has three, I'm coming up blank on others that have more
than two - there are a few of those. If you got really pedantic, you
could say that rivers split a single stretch of coast into two but
then the question is really complicated. Canada - is the coast of
Newfoundland separate from the rest of Atlantic/Arctic Canada?

--Jeff

--
Americans will always do the right thing
- after they have exhausted every other
possibility. --Winston Churchill

Loyalty to the country always, loyalty
to the government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

Rain on a tin roof sounds like a drum.
We're marching for freedom today-ay!
So turn on your headlights
and sound your horn,
if people get in the way. --Neil Innes
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> Erland Sommarskog wrote:
>
>> That leads to a counter question, which country or countries
>> have the higbest number of separate pieces coastline, not
>> counting coastlines of islands? And what is the number?
>
> hrm... The US has three, I'm coming up blank on others that
> have more than two - there are a few of those.

France, Morocco, and Saudi Arabia have three.

Russia has four

Spain has either five or three depending on whether or not Ceuta
and Melilla count.

--
Dan Tilque
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jeffrey Turner (jturner@localnet.com) writes:
> Nope. Russia's number three. Japan is number four.

I find this somewhat difficult to believe, but I am not going to dig up
the numbers.

Then I will go for Indonesia, since they a have a whole bunch of islands.

Australia may look tempting, but I would not be surprised if Chile comes
in before them, as the southern coast of the Chilean coast is extremely
jagged, not the least Tierra del Fuego and the other islands in the
south.

> hrm... The US has three, I'm coming up blank on others that have more
> than two - there are a few of those.

Actually I found when I started to research the issue that there a are a
few with three stretches.

> If you got really pedantic, you could say that rivers split a single
> stretch of coast into two but then the question is really complicated.

I realized that I should have mentioned this. I did not intend river
mouths be splitters, even when they are very wide as the St Lawrence
river.

> Canada - is the coast of Newfoundland separate from the rest of
> Atlantic/Arctic Canada?

Newfoundland is an island, for this purpose, it does not count. All the
way from Maine to Alaska is one strech.

Dan was getting close, but not close enough. I wait some more day before
I say more.

--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Erland Sommarskog wrote:

> Jeffrey Turner (jturner@localnet.com) writes:
>
>>Nope. Russia's number three. Japan is number four.

I was wrong, Denmark (Greenland) is number three, Russia four, the
Philippines is number five, Japan six, Australia seven, USA eight,
New Zealand nine, and China ten (Norway would be eighth using its
every-in-and-out method but I'm ignoring that.)

> I find this somewhat difficult to believe, but I am not going to dig up
> the numbers.
>
> Then I will go for Indonesia, since they a have a whole bunch of islands.

Indonesia it is.

> Australia may look tempting, but I would not be surprised if Chile comes
> in before them, as the southern coast of the Chilean coast is extremely
> jagged, not the least Tierra del Fuego and the other islands in the
> south.

Chile is 18th at 6435 km (all stats according to the CIA World
Factbook.)

>>hrm... The US has three, I'm coming up blank on others that have more
>>than two - there are a few of those.
>
> Actually I found when I started to research the issue that there a are a
> few with three stretches.
>
>>If you got really pedantic, you could say that rivers split a single
>>stretch of coast into two but then the question is really complicated.
>
> I realized that I should have mentioned this. I did not intend river
> mouths be splitters, even when they are very wide as the St Lawrence
> river.
>
>>Canada - is the coast of Newfoundland separate from the rest of
>>Atlantic/Arctic Canada?
>
> Newfoundland is an island, for this purpose, it does not count. All the
> way from Maine to Alaska is one strech.

Right. Wasn't really thinking of Newfoundland but the Saint Lawrence
River does go all the way to the US border.

> Dan was getting close, but not close enough. I wait some more day before
> I say more.

I didn't see where Spain gets split in three. Saudi Arabia, yes.
Russia?

--Jeff

--
Americans will always do the right thing
- after they have exhausted every other
possibility. --Winston Churchill

Loyalty to the country always, loyalty
to the government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

Rain on a tin roof sounds like a drum.
We're marching for freedom today-ay!
So turn on your headlights
and sound your horn,
if people get in the way. --Neil Innes
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> Erland Sommarskog wrote:
>
>> Dan was getting close, but not close enough. I wait some more
>> day before I say more.
>
> I didn't see where Spain gets split in three. Saudi Arabia,
> yes. Russia?

Spain's coast is interrupted by Portugal and Gibralter.

Russia has 1) the big long north/east coast, 2) the section
around St Petersburg, 3) Kaliningrad, and 4) the Black Sea coast.

France would have 4 if you count Fr Guiana. It's not on an
island, but it's also not on the same landmass as the rest of
France. So I'm not sure how it should be counted.

The US has four; Canada has three (don't forget about Pt
Roberts).

I'm at a loss to say who has five or more.

--
Dan Tilque
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jeffrey Turner (jturner@localnet.com) writes:
> I was wrong, Denmark (Greenland) is number three, Russia four, the
> Philippines is number five, Japan six, Australia seven, USA eight,
> New Zealand nine, and China ten (Norway would be eighth using its
> every-in-and-out method but I'm ignoring that.)

I have to say that there is something that smells fishy here. Sure,
Greenland has a lot of inlets, but would that be enough to outnumber
Russia?

And what is the every-in-and-out method you discard for Norway?

And http://www.txtmania.com/trivia/longest.php claims the Philippines
to be #3, so it does not seem to be an exact science.

> Right. Wasn't really thinking of Newfoundland but the Saint Lawrence
> River does go all the way to the US border.

Doesn't it rather go all the way *from* the US border? The river mouth
in Canada, isn't it?

> I didn't see where Spain gets split in three.

The European part of Spain's coast got split in two in 1640, and in three
in 1713.


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Erland Sommarskog wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner (jturner@localnet.com) writes:
>
>>I was wrong, Denmark (Greenland) is number three, Russia four, the
>>Philippines is number five, Japan six, Australia seven, USA eight,
>>New Zealand nine, and China ten (Norway would be eighth using its
>>every-in-and-out method but I'm ignoring that.)
>
> I have to say that there is something that smells fishy here. Sure,
> Greenland has a lot of inlets, but would that be enough to outnumber
> Russia?

Greenland claims 44,087 km as against Russia's 37,653. The coastline
of Canada is given as 202,080 km, which is longer than those given for
either the Pacific (135,663) or Atlantic Oceans (111,866). Of course,
ocean coastlines probably don't include islands.

> And what is the every-in-and-out method you discard for Norway?

Norway claims a coastline of 21,925 km, broken down as: 3419 km of
mainland, 2413 of large islands, 16,093 of long fjords, small islands
and minor indentations. So... Maybe Norway is #8 or maybe not.

> And http://www.txtmania.com/trivia/longest.php claims the Philippines
> to be #3, so it does not seem to be an exact science.

Not at all exact. The coastline given, 36,289 km, is still shorter
than what the CIA World Factbook lists for Russia, 37,653.

>>Right. Wasn't really thinking of Newfoundland but the Saint Lawrence
>>River does go all the way to the US border.
>
> Doesn't it rather go all the way *from* the US border? The river mouth
> in Canada, isn't it?

That is the sort of arrant pedantry up with which I shall not put.
There are tributaries of the Amazon which go all the way into Ecuador,
as well. I would think most rivers like that are on national (or
country, actually) boundaries rather than down the middles but I
haven't done an extensive investigation.

>>I didn't see where Spain gets split in three.
>
> The European part of Spain's coast got split in two in 1640, and in three
> in 1713.

Ah, yes.

ObTrivia: What country has the _shortest_ coastline? What country
whose area (in sq. km) is substantially greater than its coastline (in
km) has the shortest coastline? Non-landlocked countries only.

--Jeff

--
Americans will always do the right thing
- after they have exhausted every other
possibility. --Winston Churchill

Loyalty to the country always, loyalty
to the government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

Rain on a tin roof sounds like a drum.
We're marching for freedom today-ay!
So turn on your headlights
and sound your horn,
if people get in the way. --Neil Innes
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Dan Tilque wrote:

>
> The US has four; Canada has three (don't forget about Pt
> Roberts).

Just remembered this. A glacier in the Alaskan panhandle has
receded so much in recent years that it cut Alaska in two. As far
as I can tell, this seems to be just east of Petersburg. I can't
find a decent map of this area on-line, and cannot find out the
name of the inlet. However, this adds another one to both the US
and Canada. So I guess the country with the most coasts is the US
with 5.

--
Dan Tilque
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> ObTrivia: What country has the _shortest_ coastline? What country
> whose area (in sq. km) is substantially greater than its coastline (in
> km) has the shortest coastline? Non-landlocked countries only.

Monaco? San Marino?

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"I've had pretty good success with Stan by throwing him my best pitch and
backing up third." - Carl Erskine
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Keith Willoughby wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>
>
>>ObTrivia: What country has the _shortest_ coastline? What country
>>whose area (in sq. km) is substantially greater than its coastline (in
>>km) has the shortest coastline? Non-landlocked countries only.
>
> Monaco? San Marino?

Monaco has the shortest coastline, San Marino is landlocked.

--Jeff

--
Americans will always do the right thing
- after they have exhausted every other
possibility. --Winston Churchill

Loyalty to the country always, loyalty
to the government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

Rain on a tin roof sounds like a drum.
We're marching for freedom today-ay!
So turn on your headlights
and sound your horn,
if people get in the way. --Neil Innes
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> Keith Willoughby wrote:
>> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>
>>> ObTrivia: What country has the _shortest_ coastline? What
>>> country whose area (in sq. km) is substantially greater than
>>> its coastline (in km) has the shortest coastline? Non-
>>> landlocked countries only.
>>
>> Monaco? San Marino?
>
> Monaco has the shortest coastline, San Marino is landlocked.

Congo (Kinshasa) probably has the smallest ratio of coastline to
total area, which I think is what you're trying to ask in the
second question.

These seem to have the lowest ratios, but I haven't checked any
other countries to be sure. (Figures from the CIA World
Factbook)

total area (sq km) coast line (km)
coast/area
Congo (Kinshasa) 2,345,410 37 0.000016
Sudan 2,505,810 853 0.00034
Bosnia 51,129 20 0.00039
Slovenia 20,273 46.6 0.0023

--
Dan Tilque
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> San Marino is landlocked.

Hmm. I never knew that. I wonder why I thought it was on the coast,
then.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"What is certain is that I am no Marxist"
-- Karl Marx
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In article <87wu21kmj6.fsf@flat222.dyndns.org>,
Keith Willoughby <keith@flat222.org> wrote:

> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>
> > San Marino is landlocked.
>
> Hmm. I never knew that. I wonder why I thought it was on the coast,
> then.


Plate tectonics?

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Dan Tilque (dtilque@nwlink.com) writes:
> Spain's coast is interrupted by Portugal and Gibralter.

And as you noted, together with Melilla and Ceuta that makes five.

> France would have 4 if you count Fr Guiana. It's not on an
> island, but it's also not on the same landmass as the rest of
> France. So I'm not sure how it should be counted.

I didn't detail this for this question, but Guinea is a "département
d'outre-mer", that is a département just like any other. (OK, not
really. I think Guinea is outside Schengen.)

> The US has four; Canada has three (don't forget about Pt
> Roberts).

Yup.

> Russia has 1) the big long north/east coast, 2) the section
> around St Petersburg, 3) Kaliningrad, and 4) the Black Sea coast.

But, if you look closer on the Kaliningrad enclave, you will find that
this enclave has no less three streches. There are two narrow peninsulas.
One comes up from Poland and ends opposite to Baltijsk. The other starts
in the enclave and ends in Lithuania outside Klaipeda. Both these
peninsulas are some 100 km long and 5 km wide.

So that makes six totall for Russia.

The following countries have three:

Saudi-Arabia (although it's somewhat unclear where the border with UAE
is. This caused some confusion in Mark Braders's first Rare Entries),
Morocco and Canada. I thought for a while I had Germany and Poland there,
but then I realized that the border at Swinoujscie is on an island and not
an peninsula.


....and then there were the days when Sweden had four, maybe five strecthes.

--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jeffrey Turner (jturner@localnet.com) writes:
> Norway claims a coastline of 21,925 km, broken down as: 3419 km of
> mainland, 2413 of large islands, 16,093 of long fjords, small islands
> and minor indentations. So... Maybe Norway is #8 or maybe not.

And if you make the same breakdown for Greenland or Canada what you
arrive at? 🙂



--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Dan Tilque (dtilque@nwlink.com) writes:
> These seem to have the lowest ratios, but I haven't checked any
> other countries to be sure. (Figures from the CIA World
> Factbook)
>
> total area (sq km) coast line (km)
> coast/area
> Congo (Kinshasa) 2,345,410 37 0.000016
> Sudan 2,505,810 853 0.00034
> Bosnia 51,129 20 0.00039
> Slovenia 20,273 46.6 0.0023

Jordania appears to have a coast of around 15 km, but that's only from
a measurement on the map, so it might be longer.

Bosnia-Hercegovina is somewhat funny. If you ride on highway 2 from
Rijeka down to Montenegro, you pass through B-H for 12 kilometres
through village of Neum (which ethically is very Croatian). But there
is a small peninsula that sticks out and almost double the B-H's
coastline. Further out at sea is the Korcula peninsula, which is Croatian,
so Bosnia-Hercegovina can only reach the open sea through Croatian waters.
The whole arrangement of Neum was a Titoesque sleight of hand.

Three more countries with short coastlines are Gambia, Togo and Benin,
but of the above, they are not likely to beat even Slovenia.


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Erland Sommarskog wrote:

>
> Jordania appears to have a coast of around 15 km, but that's
> only from a measurement on the map, so it might be longer.

For some reason, I didn't think of Jordan. Let me update my
table:

total area coast line coast/area
(sq km) (km)
Congo (Kinshasa) 2,345,410 37 0.000016
Jordan 92,300 26 0.00028
Sudan 2,505,810 853 0.00034
Bosnia 51,129 20 0.00039
Congo (Brazzaville) 342,000 169 0.00049
Togo 56,785 56 0.00099
Benin 112,620 121 0.0011
Slovenia 20,273 46.6 0.0023


>
> Bosnia-Hercegovina is somewhat funny. If you ride on highway 2
> from Rijeka down to Montenegro, you pass through B-H for 12
> kilometres through village of Neum (which ethically is very
> Croatian). ... The whole
> arrangement of Neum was a Titoesque sleight of hand.

I understand that in negotiations during the 90s, Bosnia insisted
on keeping that little stretch of coastline for purely
psychological reasons. Apparently, they just didn't want to be
landlocked, but it's not like they derive any great benefit from
it, since it has no significant port.

>
> Three more countries with short coastlines are Gambia, Togo
> and Benin, but of the above, they are not likely to beat even
> Slovenia.

As you can see above, two of them do have lower ratios than
Slovenia.

--
Dan Tilque
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Dan Tilque wrote:

> Erland Sommarskog wrote:
>
>>
>> Jordania appears to have a coast of around 15 km, but that's
>> only from a measurement on the map, so it might be longer.
>
> For some reason, I didn't think of Jordan. Let me update my
> table:

Also forgot about Bush's Folly:


total area coast line coast/area
(sq km) (km)
Congo (Kinshasa) 2,345,410 37 0.000016
Iraq 437,072 58 0.00013
Jordan 92,300 26 0.00028
Sudan 2,505,810 853 0.00034
Bosnia 51,129 20 0.00039
Congo (Brazzaville) 342,000 169 0.00049
Togo 56,785 56 0.00099
Benin 112,620 121 0.0011
Slovenia 20,273 46.6 0.0023

--
Dan Tilque
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Dan Tilque (dtilque@nwlink.com) writes:
> Just remembered this. A glacier in the Alaskan panhandle has
> receded so much in recent years that it cut Alaska in two. As far
> as I can tell, this seems to be just east of Petersburg. I can't
> find a decent map of this area on-line, and cannot find out the
> name of the inlet. However, this adds another one to both the US
> and Canada. So I guess the country with the most coasts is the US
> with 5.

I have to confess that I didn't know about that one. In any case,
five is not enough. 🙂


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Dan Tilque (dtilque@nwlink.com) writes:
> I understand that in negotiations during the 90s, Bosnia insisted
> on keeping that little stretch of coastline for purely
> psychological reasons. Apparently, they just didn't want to be
> landlocked, but it's not like they derive any great benefit from
> it, since it has no significant port.

I don't think border adjustments was really up for grabs, at least not
in the eye of the international community. And for a long it was probably
more of a virtual border and beyond the control of Sarajevo. The whole of
the hinterland is also ethnically Croatian. I passed through the area in
2001, and then there were border controls, but they were housed in makeshift
booths. I doubt that I would have found use for my "convertible" marks
there.

You might be thinking of passage in the negotiations where the Muslims
requested guaranteed access to Ploce which is a bigger city up the coast
from Neum, and which in difference to Neum has a good harbour.

Not that the value of Neum should be neglected. After all, it's a beach
resort and attracts some tourism.


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Dan Tilque wrote:

> Dan Tilque wrote:
>
>
>>Erland Sommarskog wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jordania appears to have a coast of around 15 km, but that's
>>>only from a measurement on the map, so it might be longer.
>>
>>For some reason, I didn't think of Jordan. Let me update my
>>table:
>
>
> Also forgot about Bush's Folly:

I took the liberty of filling in some others.

> total area coast line coast/area
> (sq km) (km)
> Congo (Kinshasa) 2,345,410 37 0.000016
> Iraq 437,072 58 0.00013
> Jordan 92,300 26 0.00028
> Sudan 2,505,810 853 0.00034
> Bosnia 51,129 20 0.00039
Algeria 2,381,740 998 0.00042
> Congo (Brazzaville) 342,000 169 0.00049
Mauritania 1,030,700 754 0.00073
Cameroon 475,440 402 0.00085
Brazil 8,511,965 7491 0.00088
Kenya 582,650 536 0.00092
Nigeria 923,768 853 0.00092
Romania 237,500 225 0.00095
> Togo 56,785 56 0.00099
Libya 1,759,540 1770 0.0010
Syria 185,180 193 0.0010
> Benin 112,620 121 0.0011
Angola 1,246,700 1600 0.0013
Pakistan 803,940 1046 0.0013
Guinea 245,857 320 0.0013
Saudi Arabia 1,960,582 2640 0.0013
Iran 1,648,000 2440 0.0015
Tanzania 945,087 1424 0.0015
China 9,596,960 14,500 0.0015
Lithuania 65,200 99 0.0015
Poland 312,685 491 0.0016
United Arab Emirates 82,880 1318 0.0016
Cote D'Ivoire 322,460 515 0.0016
Argentina 2,766,890 4989 0.0018
Peru 1,285,220 2414 0.0019
Namibia 825,418 1572 0.0019
Serbia 102,350 199 0.0019
United States 9,631,418 19,924 0.0021
India 3,287,590 7000 0.0021
Guyana 214,970 459 0.0021
Russia 17,075,200 37,653 0.0022
Ghana 239,460 539 0.0023 (0.002251)
South Africa 1,219,912 2798 0.0023 (0.002294)
> Slovenia 20,273 46.6 0.0023 (0.002299)

A couple surprises there, I think.

At the other end, non-island nations
Monaco 1.95 4.1 2.10
Denmark 43,094 7,314 0.17 without Greenland
Greece 131,940 13,676 0.10
Croatia 56,542 5,835 0.10
Estonia 45,226 3,794 0.084
Norway 21,925 324,220 0.068
Qatar 11,437 563 0.049
Panama 78,200 2,490 0.032
Kuwait 17,820 499 0.028
Brunei 5,770 161 0.028

Denmark including Greenland would come in 14th, just after South Korea

--Jeff

--
Americans will always do the right thing
- after they have exhausted every other
possibility. --Winston Churchill

Loyalty to the country always, loyalty
to the government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

Rain on a tin roof sounds like a drum.
We're marching for freedom today-ay!
So turn on your headlights
and sound your horn,
if people get in the way. --Neil Innes
 
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