Is there a happy medium between trial-and-error and spoile..

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I'm trying to enjoy NetHack, but it's a bit tough to find a middle
ground of guidance. There are so many aspects of the game that are
almost impossible to discover by trial and error that I feel that I'm
forced to read spoilers to figure out what something does, etc.... The
NetHack Guidebook does not seem to be enough to start from, but there
does not seem to be anything else out there that is not completely
spoily, but will give you some guidance to the game. (I'm sure I'll
probably get flamed by the purists, but there's no need to fill this
thread up with people lecturing about how it's evil to play the game
with anything other than the hjkl keys :) )

Anybody know of something to refer me to?

Thanks
 
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metro98k@gmail.com <metro98k@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to enjoy NetHack, but it's a bit tough to find a middle
> ground of guidance. There are so many aspects of the game that are
> almost impossible to discover by trial and error that I feel that I'm
> forced to read spoilers to figure out what something does, etc....
> The NetHack Guidebook does not seem to be enough to start from, but
> there does not seem to be anything else out there that is not
> completely spoily, but will give you some guidance to the game. (I'm
> sure I'll probably get flamed by the purists, but there's no need to
> fill this thread up with people lecturing about how it's evil to play
> the game with anything other than the hjkl keys :) )
>
> Anybody know of something to refer me to?

The Oracle. Bring lots of money.

Or, if you can't do that, I remember seeing files containing (in one)
all the true rumors and (in the other) all the false rumors in the game.
The ones you find scribbled on the floor are a mix of true and false, I
understand you only get true ones from the Oracle (and XP, at least some
of the time).

This is arguably cheating, since you're working around how the game
gives you this information, but it's less spoily than reading the
spoilers -- they're hints, rather than outright explanations.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

metro98k@gmail.com wrote:

> Anybody know of something to refer me to?

Try several directories on my site:

ftp://roguelikes.sauceforge.net/pub/nethack/documents and lower
ftp://roguelikes.sauceforge.net/pub/nethack/spoilers/31/tips

The latter has a file called "beginner's tips.31.txt", which might
contain what you want. Other files in that directory aren't spoily,
either. Note that these files were written for version 3.1, by the way.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 

James

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1113326887.026068.99060@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<metro98k@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to enjoy NetHack, but it's a bit tough to find a middle
>ground of guidance.

One major attribute that characterizes roguelikes, such as Nethack, is
that the game does not become less enjoyable even for someone who is
familiar with every line of the source code.

You can study the source, you can read every spoiler, and you can
discuss the game at length and in depth here and on irc, and it does
not become less enjoyable for having done so.

Now, if you are a great problem solver, if you have a Ph.D. in Classics,
and you don't mind spending every day for the next 15 years playing this
game so that you can remain unspoiled, that's your call.

But if you spoil yourself, the game will *still* hold some mysteries,
and the RNG will continue to kill you in every way possible.
 
G

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 13/4/2005 5:28 AM, in article
1113326887.026068.99060@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "metro98k@gmail.com"
<metro98k@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to enjoy NetHack, but it's a bit tough to find a middle
> ground of guidance. There are so many aspects of the game that are
> almost impossible to discover by trial and error that I feel that I'm
> forced to read spoilers to figure out what something does, etc.... The
> NetHack Guidebook does not seem to be enough to start from, but there
> does not seem to be anything else out there that is not completely
> spoily, but will give you some guidance to the game. (I'm sure I'll
> probably get flamed by the purists, but there's no need to fill this
> thread up with people lecturing about how it's evil to play the game
> with anything other than the hjkl keys :) )
>
> Anybody know of something to refer me to?
>
> Thanks
>

At one end, you have players blundering along, maybe even doing pretty well,
only to die by sliming when deep in Hell (grrr...) and at the other end, you
have players who have the NetHack sources open, and a leather-bound copy of
the spoilers at their elbow.

My take is that your character starts as "newly trained". This means that
they have the basic abilities as determined by their class, *PLUS* a
grounding in what to expect in the Dungeons/mines/towns that lie ahead. I
would prefer to have a spoiled demi-god than a purist corpse.

I reckon a happy medium is to skim through YAAP posts. They are usually
pretty vague and jargon-filled, but give a good outline of what's ahead,
without breaking down exactly what the rng is doing.

Whatever lets you sleep at night :)
 
G

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 4/12/05 1:28 PM, metro98k@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm trying to enjoy NetHack, but it's a bit tough to find a middle
> ground of guidance. There are so many aspects of the game that are
> almost impossible to discover by trial and error that I feel that I'm
> forced to read spoilers to figure out what something does, etc.... The
> NetHack Guidebook does not seem to be enough to start from, but there
> does not seem to be anything else out there that is not completely
> spoily, but will give you some guidance to the game. (I'm sure I'll
> probably get flamed by the purists, but there's no need to fill this
> thread up with people lecturing about how it's evil to play the game
> with anything other than the hjkl keys :) )
>
> Anybody know of something to refer me to?
>

I highly recommend Mikko Saari's "Absolute Beginner's Guide to Nethack."
A Google search should bring it up, and it's posted here every so often.

--
Kevin Wayne

"I came to Casablanca for the waters."
"Waters? What waters? We're in the desert?"
"I was misinformed."
 
G

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kevin Wayne wrote:
> On 4/12/05 1:28 PM, metro98k@gmail.com wrote:
> > I'm trying to enjoy NetHack, but it's a bit tough to find a
middle
> > ground of guidance. There are so many aspects of the game that are
> > almost impossible to discover by trial and error that I feel that
I'm
> > forced to read spoilers to figure out what something does, etc....

I'm trying to do a similar thing. I've settled on skiming posts to find
out how things work, but not reading the uberspoilers and memorizing
the stats, odds and whatnot. The one thing I can't find any info on,
and which seems to be a big part of many peoples games is "#offer"ing
and Praying....I #offer a lot of stuff my god dosn't like, and save
praying for when I'm starving and have no food or are posined...or have
a lot of BAD cursed stuff....I'd like a bit more info on that....anyone
know where I can find it?
 
G

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Spoiler warning. Booga, booga!

"Canageek" <Canageek@gmail.com> writes:
> The one thing I can't find any info on, and which seems to be a big
> part of many peoples games is "#offer"ing and Praying.

There is a prayer FAQ here: http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/pray.html

> I #offer a lot of stuff my god dosn't like

If your sacrifices aren't being accepted (they don't disappear) then
the problem is one of:
1) you have to be at a altar (hopefully coaligned)
2) you can only sacrifice monster corpses, not other food or items*
3) the corpse has to be freshly killed

Undead are almost never fresh enough. If you stack multiple corpses
of the same type, the age is averaged; #name individual corpses to prevent
them stacking. Very old versions of nethack let you sacrifice gold; this
is no longer possible.

If your sacrifice disappears but something bad happens:
1) you tried to convert an altar unwisely
2) you sacrificed a former pet
3) you sacrificed a member of your own race, and aren't chaotic
4) you sacrificed on an altar of Moloch
5) you sacrificed a unicorn coaligned with the altar and/or yourself
6) you carried the ball into the wrong end-zone

If your sacrifice disappears but nothing (obvious) happens: Keep trying,
or try bigger monsters.

> and save praying for when I'm starving and have no food or are
> posined...or have a lot of BAD cursed stuff...

That's a good idea in general. It _may_ be a good idea to pray even if
not in trouble. See the FAQ linked above, but it's generally OK if:

o- your prayer timeout, luck and alignment are good
o- the Gods aren't be angry with you
o- you're not polyed into undead or a demon (unless chaotic)
o- you're not on a cross-aligned altar
o- you're not in Gehennom
o- you're not going to get in some deadly trouble from which only
prayer can save you before you can expire the prayer timeout
again
o- you're not allergic to crowning

There's something to be said for maxing your luck and alignment,
finding a coaligned altar and having a giant sac-fest, praying as
often as you safely can in the hopes of getting golden glows,
protection and useful spellbooks.

*- There is one (important) case where you can sac a non-food item.
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Canageek" <Canageek@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113510094.457300.110950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kevin Wayne wrote:
>> On 4/12/05 1:28 PM, metro98k@gmail.com wrote:
>> > I'm trying to enjoy NetHack, but it's a bit tough to find a
> middle
>> > ground of guidance. There are so many aspects of the game that are
>> > almost impossible to discover by trial and error that I feel that
> I'm
>> > forced to read spoilers to figure out what something does, etc....
>
> I'm trying to do a similar thing. I've settled on skiming posts to find
> out how things work, but not reading the uberspoilers and memorizing
> the stats, odds and whatnot. The one thing I can't find any info on,
> and which seems to be a big part of many peoples games is "#offer"ing
> and Praying....I #offer a lot of stuff my god dosn't like, and save
> praying for when I'm starving and have no food or are posined...or have
> a lot of BAD cursed stuff....I'd like a bit more info on that....anyone
> know where I can find it?
>

Holy water?
 

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