Question Is there anything that should not be done when not using a laptop or desktop for prolonged periods of time?

[Crag_Hack]

A quick Google showed desktop computers can be powered off several months without cause for concern. I'm specifically wondering if the same applies to laptops. So:

1. Is it OK to leave a laptop off for a couple months? Is there an upper boundary to avoid?
2. Is it OK to leave a laptop in sleep until the battery runs out? I'm guessing by the time a month transpires the laptop will lose charge.
3. Anything else to know? Anything that is to be avoided?
4. Is there anything to be avoided for a desktop?

Thanks!

 

[Aeacus]

Hmm....

With laptops, i wouldn't drain the battery before putting it into cold storage. Instead, better to fully charge the battery and then put it into storage (some laptops have detachable battery, which i'd also remove before putting into storage).

When the device is taken back into the service, hook it to the charger to charge it.
Even fully charged battery will discharge the power when in storage, but it is better for battery if it was full before storage. If it was empty, storage could drain it completely dry, whereby charging afterwards doesn't bring it back to life. In such cases, power spikes into battery can help to bring it back (especially true for car batteries).

As for desktop PCs, there isn't nothing to worry. Just don't keep it plugged into mains.
Now, if desktop PC is in cold storage for years, then replacing the PSU would be good idea. Else-ways, you may get "boom" and magic smoke when trying to power on a PSU that has sat ~5 years without power on.

E.g i have a desktop PC in cold storage that was produced in 1998 (old Pentium II). Last time it was powered on was in 2011. At current moment, i dare not to power it on, since PSU in it is 26 years old and has sat without power on for 13 years. So, i'd need to get new PSU for it, IF i want to power it on again (better idea for me is to transfer data drives over to get the data from it, since i don't need to power on the whole thing).

 

[NedSmelly]

it is better for battery if it was full before storage.

Other sources recommend long term storage of lithium batteries at 50% state-of-charge.

Battery Guy
Batteries Inc
Renogy

 

[Aeacus]

Based on the articles linked, and while those do say to keep battery charge level 30%-50%, other clauses are also stated, like:

The voltage of each cell should not fall below 2 volts as at this point the anode starts dissolving causing copper shunts to form which will cause an irreversible loss of capacity.

You don’t want to fully charge it before placing the battery in storage, but you should charge it every 3-6 months so that it doesn’t lose too much of its charge over time. When you are ready to use the battery again, take it out of storage and charge it fully prior to use.

When it comes to lithium-ion batteries, it’s important to avoid fully discharging them whenever possible. Draining a battery below 25% can negatively impact its overall capacity and performance. Battery capacity refers to the amount of charge it can hold, and discharging it to its lowest point can lead to reduced capacity over time.

Essentially meaning to monitor the battery and keep the charge level at ~50%, by slow-charging them once-in-a-while.

My suggestion was to remove the need of charge while in storage. Since it would take longer time for battery do drain, when it is full (or ~80%) compared to when it is 30%-50%.

In OP's case, it is short term storage, month or two. If it would be years, then ~50% charge and once-in-a-while charges to keep the battery healthy are better.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@Aeacus @NedSmelly Excellent thanks guys, sounds like the only laptop component to be concerned about is the battery, correct?

Also I can take this guy out once a week and use it for a half hour or an hour or so if that makes things easier on the battery, and keep the battery above 50% or even fully charge it each time. If I break it out once a week what's the best way to handle things then?

 

[slightnitpick]

https://www.pcworld.com/article/427...ally-need-to-worry-about-ssd-reliability.html

The current wave of concern is based on a table in a JEDEC presentation about general SSD specifications by Seagate’s Alvin Cox. The table shows the expected data retention characteristics of SSDs at both operating and non-operational temperatures, using data culled from Intel research. It highlights a non-operational, ambient temperature of 87 degrees Fahrenheit as the cause of failure in data retention in client-side (consumer) SSDs after only a year. Notice that’s not a few days. If you store your SSD someplace that averages 72 degrees Fahrenheit, a far more likely scenario, you’re talking two-years-plus according to this table. Notice again, that’s not a few days.

What the table warns is that data retention drops precipitously as ambient and/or operational temperatures rise above the norm. For instance, you could lose data after only a few weeks if your SSD is stored in Death Valley, during the summer, with no AC. The table ends at one week’s retention at 131 degrees. Put your SSD in an oven at 450, and you’re on your own.

Several of the SSD vendors I talked to said they’d expect their consumer products to do better, as in several multiples better, than this chart would indicate. But even 10 years is hardly an archival timespan, and SSDs simply shouldn’t be relied upon for long-term storage.

I presume SLC > MLC > TLC > QLC in terms of data integrity over time. But I don't know enough about this to speculate further.

See pages 26 and on in the linked JEDEC presentation PDF.

If I'm interpreting this correctly, for a typical consumer drive back then in 2015, if you store it at typical temperatures in a climate controlled home you've got >1 year of likely perfect data retention. Store it in an outside shed in a place with fluctuating temperatures, then cross your fingers. Again, no idea whether TLC or QLC will change these calculations.

 

[Aeacus]

Also I can take this guy out once a week and use it for a half hour or an hour or so if that makes things easier on the battery, and keep the battery above 50% or even fully charge it each time. If I break it out once a week what's the best way to handle things then?

Depends on storage period.

If it's month or two, i'd fully charge it, store it for few months and when taking it into service again, hook charger to it.

But if it is years, then battery level ~50% and do the slow-charge maintenance back to ~50% twice a year. Or quarterly (4 times a year) if battery drain is faster and there is a risk that battery drains below 25% in 6 months (it shouldn't be).
Bet would be to check the charge state after 3 months of storage. If it's ~30%, better to charge it quarterly. But if it's ~40%, twice a year charge would suffice.

 

[USAFRet]

https://www.pcworld.com/article/427...ally-need-to-worry-about-ssd-reliability.html


I presume SLC > MLC > TLC > QLC in terms of data integrity over time. But I don't know enough about this to speculate further.

See pages 26 and on in the linked JEDEC presentation PDF.

If I'm interpreting this correctly, for a typical consumer drive back then in 2015, if you store it at typical temperatures in a climate controlled home you've got >1 year of likely perfect data retention. Store it in an outside shed in a place with fluctuating temperatures, then cross your fingers. Again, no idea whether TLC or QLC will change these calculations.

And we have some clowns around here spouting such nonsense as "1 month" before it starts to lose data.

I've personally powered up an old drive that was sitting in a desk drawer for ~5 years, 100% data retention.
Kingston HyperX 3k, 120GB.

Not saying that is an 'always' occurrence, but there it was.

 

[Silas Sanchez]

The number 1 thing that kills consumer lithium ion batteries in storage is leaving them sit by them selves for months to years on end. It because of greed and safety.
Once a lithium ion cell is allowed to sit below ~2-2.5VOC for extended periods the internals deteriorate and an example is dendrites form which can pierce the separators between the neg & pos and charging them up can possible result in a short/ fire. So once the BMS sees this is will permanently lock the battery.

Sounds safe & legit right? WRONG! The manufacturers actually aid in the discharging by parasitic drains from the device and the actual BMS itself even when the battery is unplugged from the laptop. They know what they are doing is wrong and that lithium has a very low self discharge, but they are greedy people so who is gonna stop them? Its called planned obsolescence.
The tool of capitalists.

Good lithium ion can literally sit for years without much discharge, but the BMS has far too much parasitic drain. So you are essentially forced to keep charging up the battery putting wear & tear on it.

All my high powered LED headtorches for example have their unprotected (no drain from BMS) cylindricals sit for up to 2-3 years and have only discharged down from 50% to 30% SoC.

The other concern would be SSDs, letting them sit for long periods may lead to data corruption. Another concern might be the need to put in a new CMOS battery?

 

[Crag_Hack]

Depends on storage period.

@Aeacus Did you misread my question? Or did I misunderstand you? I was wondering what to do if I take it out of storage once a week and use it for half an hour or an hour. Same principle maybe, keep it at 50% ideally?

Once a lithium ion cell is allowed to sit below ~2-2.5VOC

@Silas Sanchez This voltage drop happens when the battery discharges right? Does it correspond to a certain charge %?

Thanks again!

 

[USAFRet]

I was wondering what to do if I take it out of storage once a week and use it for half an hour or an hour. Same principle maybe, keep it at 50% ideally?

Why would you be doing this?

"once a week" does not really meet with "off line storage".

 

[Crag_Hack]

@USAFRet That way I don't have to worry about maintenance. To keep my baby healthy.

 

[USAFRet]

@USAFRet That way I don't have to worry about maintenance. To keep my baby healthy.

Completely unsure of what you're trying to do here.

There are multiple ways of instituting an actual backup routine, to safeguard your data.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@USAFRet Your previous post was regarding SSD longevity right? The other content of this post is regarding battery preservation and more importantly computer preservation during periods of non-use. My impression from all the other post is that battery health is the only thing that can be negatively affected by longer periods of non-use for laptops.

 

[USAFRet]

@USAFRet Your previous post was regarding SSD longevity right? The other content of this post is regarding battery preservation and more importantly computer preservation during periods of non-use. My impression from all the other post is that battery health is the only thing that can be negatively affected by longer periods of non-use for laptops.

Yes, one of my previous posts spoke to SSD life if offline and unpowered.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@USAFRet If I use the laptop once a week for .5-1 hours or so does that negate the need for any of the aforementioned maintenance precautions relating to keeping battery charge around 50% long term? Then I can live care-free with my new baby if so. Thx

 

[USAFRet]

@USAFRet If I use the laptop once a week for .5-1 hours or so does that negate the need for any of the aforementioned maintenance precautions relating to keeping battery charge around 50% long term? Then I can live care-free with my new baby if so. Thx

Battery and storage.

Battery will probably be OK.

Data storage....this should always be backed up anyway.
There are multiple means of your stuff going bye bye.

 

[CelicaGT]

@USAFRet If I use the laptop once a week for .5-1 hours or so does that negate the need for any of the aforementioned maintenance precautions relating to keeping battery charge around 50% long term? Then I can live care-free with my new baby if so. Thx

Just use it and don't worry. The BMS (Battery Management System) will slowly bring the battery down to the optimum storage voltage when in long term storage. Once it gets around 50% it may hibernate the BMS to eliminate parasitic drain (Percentage/Voltage varies by manufacturer). In this case the laptop may not power on (Depends on manufacturer). This a soft disable, it will wake up once the charger is connected and the laptop will now power on normally. Most laptops/batteries are shipped in this state which is why they need to be plugged in on initial setup. This is for longevity and sometimes legal reasons, depending on the country and/or how it is being shipped to the store/end user. I might argue some brands of BMS are a little aggressive when beginning to discharge (Looking at you, Acer) but the fact remains that leaving a LiPo battery at 100% charge for even a few days can damage the cells permanently. For clarity, I use BMS-less LiPo batteries for several of my hobbies (Drones, RC cars and aircraft) so I am well versed in their care and feeding. These batteries are quite robust when taken care of. When abused they fail quickly, and can be VERY dangerous.

 

[NedSmelly]

I was wondering what to do if I take it out of storage once a week and use it for half an hour or an hour. Same principle maybe, keep it at 50% ideally?!

That just sounds like normal usage to me.

If you’re using it mostly plugged in, then set to ‘desktop mode’ (Dell), ‘battery charge threshold’ (Lenovo), or equivalent setting that restricts charging to max 70-80% capacity.

 

[Aeacus]

@Aeacus Did you misread my question? Or did I misunderstand you? I was wondering what to do if I take it out of storage once a week and use it for half an hour or an hour. Same principle maybe, keep it at 50% ideally?

Using the laptop once a week is not considered as long-term storage.

Long-term storage is when you don't use the laptop for months or years.

Initially, you asked about few months of storage;

A quick Google showed desktop computers can be powered off several months without cause for concern. I'm specifically wondering if the same applies to laptops.

If all what you want to do, is store the laptop for 2-3 months, the battery in it will survive without issues. (No need to charge/power it on in the mean time.)

But if you want to store the laptop 6 months or more, better to do the slow-charging cycle every 3 months, to keep the battery charge level at optimal state.

Even, in a rare chance, the battery should die, you can still use the laptop. All laptops work when connected to the mains via charger cable, battery in there or not.
E.g my old Asus Eee 701 battery is long gone, but i can use the laptop just fine when connected to the mains via charging cable.
Moreover, battery replacement is still a thing with laptops.

 

[Crag_Hack]

@CelicaGT Interesting stuff, weird I'm A+ certified but never heard of any of this stuff. Also I've never had to do a plug in to fix a soft disable before. Thanks though for the info.

@NedSmelly I'll definitely be doing that that's key for battery health.

@Aeacus So the cutoff threshold is ~2-3 months then? Anything less than though no maintenance necessary anything more than that do the funky jiggle?

 

[Aeacus]

@Aeacus So the cutoff threshold is ~2-3 months then? Anything less than though no maintenance necessary anything more than that do the funky jiggle?

About that much yes.