is vegan diet good or bad for health?

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Mar 7, 2018
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There are ongoing studies aiming to refute this perspective but yes you're right for now, vegans need B12 supplements.
 

Karadjgne

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Vegan and Vegetarian are 2 degrees of the same thing. Lifestyle choice. They aren't diets, they are a way of life. For most, going veggie is relatively easy, they won't eat anything that has legs. This means there's still fish, dairy, eggs etc to get any necessary supplements although a 1-a-day vitamin doesn't hurt. Vegetarian taken to extreme is Vegan, as in no animal/by products what so ever, so no fish, dairy, eggs etc. Both require willpower, Vegan extremely so, as much on the rest of the family as the Vegan person.

Are they healthy? Yes and No. Vegan and pregnant is a nightmare. Vegan single parent is close to child abuse unless very conscientious of the kids nutritional needs. You also need to steam everything, don't cook, destroys any nutritional value in the veggies, which is often overlooked.

To be Vegan or Vegetarian requires not only a firm willingness to deny your inherent nature (humans are genetically omnivores) but also a firm grasp on reality. Your kids are not veggies, your friends/family/co-workers are not veggies, your body is not veggie either, just your head. Treat accordingly.
 
Mar 7, 2018
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Agreed :sourire:
 

Karadjgne

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I've seen several opinions in this thread, and as the father of a 23yr old vegan single mother, some of them are **** in my opinion.

Currently the US pays farmers not to grow grain (easy to cure world hunger if there was more), for the simple reason it'd flood the market and grain based futures would take a bath, hurting the US economy and overseas trade.

Ask any English farmer just how much he waters his animals/fields. Simple answer would be a laugh, the animals subside almost totally on grass, watered by? You guessed it, Rain. Kinda making the 100lbs of water for 1lb of beef argument a pointless statistic.

I don't mind the occasional veggie meal, it makes my daughter happy to feel like she's contributing to my health an welfare, but when it's time for my birthday dinner, you'll find me at a steakhouse. She has her choice, I have mine.
 
Mar 7, 2018
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Yes! I wish my father could be like you... He insists on the need for meat and forces me...
 

BFG-9000

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I am reminded of how until recently, people believed the cholesterol in eggs was somehow unhealthy. It's now considered the most perfect biologically available protein source, and assigned a biological value of 100.

It's like how in the movie Sleeper, a health-food store owner wakes up from being frozen for 200 years and finds that science of that time has discovered that smoking is healthy.
Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."
Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.
Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or... hot fudge?
Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.
Dr. Melik: Incredible.
Who knows what people in the future will consider healthy or sustainable. Ikea is already experimenting with mealworm and beetle burgers and meatballs, yum. Hmm, insects are related to crustaceans, so if your diet allows you to eat shrimp, lobster and crab...

And how many insect + animal genes need to be inserted into genetically modified crops before it's no longer vegetarian?
 
Mar 7, 2018
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Yes you're right and thanks for sharing Ikea experiment. I like this innovative approach.
But do they have enough evidence to prove the cholesterol in eggs is not unhealthy? I mean I've read about it recently and they still say that it's unhealthy. Deeply confused...
 

Karadjgne

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It's been touted for years that egg whites are good, yolks are not. But there's all sorts of cholesterol, the 2 most well known are at odds with each other. You have your fatty cholesterol which is the one that clogs arteries and is mostly found in red meats and razor cholesterol which is mostly found in beer/red Port. The razor cholesterol travels through your bloodstream and hacks'n'slashes at any fatty cholesterol deposits, allowing your kidneys/liver to pass it out of your body. Ever wonder why those ppl who have a glass of red wine with dinner tend to be skinny whelps, healthy as ox's? That's the answer, but you'll never in your lifetime hear and doctor/professional give the advice of drinking alcohol. Far too many are of the opinion that if 2 is good, a whole bottle must be great. Dead wrong, after 2 glasses, nutritional benefits are wasted, only the detriments stack up.

Back to yolks, there's more than 2 cholesterols, but you can make the case to say anything about what is in eggs, from either good or bad standpoints, simply because like beer and red meat, there's both good and bad, depending on your point of view.
 

BFG-9000

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It is now believed that dietary cholesterol is no worse than eating other fats, so moderate consumption does not appear to increase heart disease risk. Cholesterol is unable to be absorbed orally without being broken down into parts, and it was previously thought that high concentrations of these parts would result in more cholesterol synthesis in vivo but there has never been proof for this. Studies in 1999 and 2007 on 47,000 people also showed no effect on coronary heart disease, stroke or mortality from egg consumption. Despite the complete lack of evidence, in 2016, the USDA Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee recommended that Americans eat as little dietary cholesterol as possible.

For decades, they also recommended margarine over butter because they believed vegetable oils just must be healthier than animal fats despite the absence of any good evidence. Now we know the trans-fats that were in the margarine was far worse than the saturated fat in the butter.

The yolk contains just about all of the fat and cholesterol in an egg, as well as the vitamins and choline. The whites contain most of the protein. Eggs are actually pretty low in saturated fat.

BTW that movie was released just 2 years after famous health foods proponent J I Rodale (founder of Prevention and Organic Gardening magazines) dropped dead during a taping of the Dick Cavett Show, right after claiming he would live to 100. His company continues to publish Men's Health and Eat This, Not That.
 

BFG-9000

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BTW, never underestimate bureaucratic inertia, especially when politics or religion are involved. After all it took them 70 years to acknowledge there was enough proof that smoking was bad for you.

Early American proponents of vegetarianism were some pretty colorful characters. Sylvester Graham (of Graham cracker fame) and John Harvey Kellogg (Corn Flakes) famously both developed their products in order to prevent masturbation. They both believed that meat and milk caused "animal lust," so their bland diets would help reduce harmful sexual urges. Kellogg had an asylum where he fed patients vegetarian foods, and C.W. Post was such a happy customer there that he founded Post Cereals (Grape Nuts, Raisin Bran). As opposed to these true believers, Procter & Gamble were only trying to make a profit from cotton seeds, then an industrial waste product.

While vegetarianism may show some minor reduction in cancers or Type 2 diabetes, the latest and largest study ever of a quarter million people showed no difference in mortality, even despite the included vegetarians having a healthier lifestyle than the meat eaters. You may interpret this however you wish, including that perhaps having both a healthy lifestyle and eating meat may well be healthiest of all.

I can understand a pescetarian diet including fish and eggs, but a vegan diet just requires way too much care + supplements. For example Omega-3 DHA and EPA are found in no plant products, only one of their precursors α-Linolenic acid (ALA) which is only very slowly converted in the body at a low efficiency of just a few percent. Meanwhile, corn oil is 98% inflammatory Omega-6!
 
Jun 4, 2018
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If you're not sure that your diet is well-balanced it's better not to do that. The best way is to consult a doctor. but as for me it's better to aet meat.
 
Apr 22, 2018
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given that you should take suppliments on a vegan diet then the answer is technically no. A vegan diet can also lead to calcium, zinc and copper defficiences along with Vit B12 and a lack of DHA intake.
 

Karadjgne

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Human beings are not vegetarians. We are by design, omnivores. If you doubt this, look in a mirror and check your teeth, you'll see (if you have them still) 4 canine teeth whose sole purpose is the cutting and stabbing of animal flesh. A horse is a vegetarian, all it has is insisors for cropping and molars for grinding plant material. A dog is a carnivore, front teeth are nothing but canines for gripping, ripping, tearing animal flesh and premolars for finishing the job and crushing bone. Humans are in the middle, pure omnivores. So genetically we have body requirements that consist of a full diet of both plant and animal material.

There's very, very, very few who are medically imbalanced to the point where vegan is a necessity, by far, vegan is a personal choice. As such, part of that choice will absolutely require some sort of supplement to balance the loss of what animal supplies and vegetables don't.

Is a vegan diet healthy? Absolutely yes, it is. If done correctly, with any and all necessary supplements or substitutions. It's only a fool who things pure vegetables and no animal proteins or supplemental vitamins/minerals who will run into trouble. It'll take a while, it's not an overnight discrepancy, but lack of calcium, B vitamins and other nutrients will hurt, especially older women.
 

BFG-9000

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Well, looks like someone just bumped this thread with some SPAM for beeswax flakes(!) and while the post was deleted, this interesting video came out a few days ago.
[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg"][/video]
One interesting thing they did point out was that corn flakes are not vegan (because of the source of the Vitamin D3), but I rather doubt beeswax flakes are a satisfactory alternative.
 

shrapnel_indie

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It might have been SPAM... but it was on-topic SPAM for once.
 
Dec 18, 2018
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a vegan diet can be a highly best nutritious choice, as it is low in saturated fat and rich in nutrients. However, starting out on diet without proper planning can lead to some health risks. All protein, vitamins, and minerals must come from non-animal sources, so food choice and preparation are important.so before starting with diet concern good dietician.

 
Jan 29, 2019
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For those who are not acquainted with vegan and vegetarian diets:

Vegan diets eliminate all animal meats and animal by products (such as eggs and milk from an animal) foods;
Vegetarian diets on the other hand, allow for some animal food consumption, as long as the food does not come from the body of an animal. So, milk and eggs are allowed on a vegetarian diet, while bone broth, meat cuts, or fish are avoided.
There are subtle differences between variations of vegetarian and vegan diets. Some vegans, for example, might even allow the consumption of oysters and mussels, because of the argument that the nervous systems of these creatures are not developed in such a way to allow these creatures to feel pain. This is called ostro-veganism.
Next to ostro-veganists, there are all kinds of difficult names to describe different vegan or vegetarian diet variations: there are lacto-vegetarians, raw-vegans, ovo-vegetarians, partial vegetarians, pesco-vegetarians, and so forth. For the purpose of this article, you do not need to remember all these names.
To keep things simple, this article assumes that vegans do not eat any animal products at all. And I assume that vegetarians still consume milk and eggs – because their argument basically boils down to the notion that milk and egg consumption does not hurt animals.
When considering the health effects of these two diets, I criticize vegan diets more heavily in this article, because I consider vegan diets more dangerous than vegetarian diets for your energy levels, mental well-being, and physical performance.
As will become clear, if you’re following a vegan diet, you will be missing out on even more nutrients than on a vegetarian diet. However, keep in mind that you will still be missing out on essential nutrients on a vegetarian diet, compared to the omnivorous diet that I consider best for your health.
Enough of the context, let's look at 8 reasons why a vegan or vegetarian diet is damaging to your health.
Reason 1: It’s Hard to Get Enough Protein in a Vegan or Vegetarian Diet
Reason 2: Vegan and Vegetarian Diets have Lower Protein Quality
Reason 3: Vegan and Vegetarian Diets lack Specific Amino Acids
Reason 4: It’s Hard to Consume Enough Quality Fats on Vegan and Vegetarian Diets
Reason 5: Vegan and Vegetarian Diets lack Essential Minerals
Reason 6: Vegan and Vegetarian Diets lacks Absorbable Vitamins
Reason 7: Vegan and Vegetarian Diets Do Not Contain the 4 Cs: Creatine, Choline, Carnitine, and Carnosine
Reason 8: Vegan Diets might make you feel good—but only initially



 

kaleem104

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Just about everything has good and bad with it. Personally I think any diet that tells you to arbitrarily exclude stuff other sugar (and anything you might be allergic to) is going to have some problems associated with it over long term.
Skip sugar, go for a happy mix of everything (stay on organic side over conventional whenever you can, same with meat skip hormones/antibiotics, prefer grass-fed stuff). Keep in mind everyone is different, try a mix if it doesn't work keep adjusting until you hit the sweet spot. If you need to specifically go for vegan, you will need to do your research and find supplements that compensate for any nutrients you are missing.
 
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