Is VSync mandatory on 60Hz monitors?

[shmk]

Hello,
I have a classic full hd 60Hz monitor and with my GTX 980 Strix I see a lot of screen tearing.
To fix this I set VSync to on and this fix the tearing problem, but in some games it adds a new problem: input lag.

So my question is: to resolve the problem of tearing with a "standard" 60Hz monitor, is only to enable VSync (with the possibility to create new problems), or they could be other possible settings to use?

Thanks!

 

[dovah-chan]

Read this article. So far the only hope for you is Free Sync/G-Sync.

The best way to combat the input lag without buying a 144Hz display is to make sure your mouse and keyboard are running at a 1000Hz polling rate (higher end gaming oriented peripherals usually support this) and that you have your mouse DPI set a little higher than you're used to.

 

[RobCrezz]

As above, Get a G-sync screen or monitor with higher refresh rate (to raise the vsync).

 

[bystander]

G-sync can help the input lag issue, but is also not foolproof by itself.

The problem is DirectX with 3 or more buffers. DirectX forces every frame rendered to be displayed. If you are capable of more FPS than your refresh rate, frames get backed up, resulting in waiting additional frames before they are displayed, as DirectX displays the oldest rendered frames first, even with newer completed frames already created.

That problem happens with G-sync as well, but at 144hz, it is much less common to get FPS higher than 144.

The solution is to use a FPS cap below your refresh rate, which prevents frames from backing up. Even with G-sync, this is needed, though it works beautifully with G-sync, as it won't cause any stutter at all while doing this, where as V-sync will cause some mild stuttering.

With Vsync and 60hz, use a 58 or 59 FPS cap. With G-sync, you may have to lower it slightly more due to the polling that G-sync does, you may have to drop the FPS a few more points lower to prevent this problem.

 

[17seconds]

Nice try guys. Turn on Adaptive VSync... problem solved.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/16/nvidia_adaptive_vsync_technology_review/

 

[RobCrezz]

Nice try guys. Turn on Adaptive VSync... problem solved.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/16/nvidia_adaptive_vsync_technology_review/

And how does adaptive vsync fix the input lag?

 

[17seconds]

It disables VSync when FPS is below 60. Check the linked article.

 

[bystander]

It disables VSync when FPS is below 60. Check the linked article.

Unfortunately, that does not solve the input lag issue if the game uses 3 or more buffers (always with CF/SLI) and it doesn't remove tearing if your FPS drop below your refresh rate. It does, however, remove the stuttering of V-sync when you fail to reach your refresh rate.

 

[17seconds]

It disables VSync when FPS is below 60. Check the linked article.

Unfortunately, that does not solve the input lag issue if the game uses 3 or more buffers (always with CF/SLI) and it doesn't remove tearing if your FPS drop below your refresh rate. It does, however, remove the stuttering of V-sync when you fail to reach your refresh rate.

So you are saying that it does solve input lag in general, though?

In any event, shmk asked if there were any settings that can help with his problem, and rather than buy an $700 G-Sync monitor or jiggering around with 3rd party software, he can just try to turn on Adaptive VSync. According to the article previously linked, regular VSync is a common cause of input lag. It's worth a try, and would be great to hear back if it solved the issue.



"In the graphs we saw that turning on VSync in a game will cap the framerate to your refresh rate, but it also has the nasty side-effect of stepping down to 30 FPS. This high degree of framerate fluctuation is perceivable to the gamer, and it detracts from the gameplay experience. This creates stuttering in a game, and you can visually see the game slow down and speed up. There is also a feeling of the mouse becoming more laggy, known as input lag. These are real changes that the gamer feels as he games with VSync turned on."
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/16/nvidia_adaptive_vsync_technology_review/3#.VEWm1ChOTdk

 

[bystander]

V-sync at FPS below your refresh rate can cause jittering/stutter, and some mild latency. The latency isn't generally the issue with below your refresh rate in FPS, it's the stutter. V-sync may be a reasonable solution, except the OP specifically does not want tearing. Adaptive V-sync allows tearing below 60 FPS, and latency at 60 FPS. Both of which he wanted to avoid.

Either he needs G-sync, or V-sync with a FPS cap 1 or 2 FPS below his refresh rate. That is the only possible choices to avoid what he doesn't want.

 

[17seconds]

V-sync at FPS below your refresh rate can cause jittering/stutter, and some mild latency. The latency isn't generally the issue with below your refresh rate in FPS, it's the stutter. V-sync may be a reasonable solution, except the OP specifically does not want tearing. Adaptive V-sync allows tearing below 60 FPS, and latency at 60 FPS. Both of which he wanted to avoid.

Either he needs G-sync, or V-sync with a FPS cap 1 or 2 FPS below his refresh rate. That is the only possible choices to avoid what he doesn't want.

I know that you understand this stuff better than most, but I can't help but feel that your opinion is so different from the reviewers at HardOCP.


"Adaptive VSync completely fixes the issue on both ends. Adaptive VSync keeps the framerate from exceeding your refresh rate, thus eliminating screen tearing. At the same time it is smart enough to turn itself off, basically, when the framerate is below the refresh rate so it won't step down to 30 FPS or worse. This means there are no large steps in reduction of framerate, eliminating the stutter, and the mouse input lag associated with VSync being turned on. In our graphs, we found that Adaptive VSync matched perfectly the same performance profile as with VSync turned off. This means you'll get the maximum performance possible up to your refresh rate, giving you a better average framerate. Our data proves the technology works, and it was clearly doing what it should be.
"http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/16/nvidia_adaptive_vsync_technology_review/3#.VEXJHShOTdl

 

[bystander]

Well, they are describing a double buffer case, which doesn't have the 60 FPS latency issues that happens with triple buffering, but instead has the huge FPS loss when you fail to reach 60 FPS, causing low FPS latency. Adaptive v-sync does help the latency in this instance, but allows for tearing.

With triple buffering, the latency problem happens at 60 FPS instead.

That leaves it a game by game situation on fixing latency. Tearing is going to happen with the adaptive v-sync option when using a double buffer system. The FPS cap solution will help with the triple buffered games and all crossfire/sli systems.

G-sync/freesync is the only complete fix.

 

[RobCrezz]

It disables VSync when FPS is below 60. Check the linked article.

You are misunderstanding the problem, and your "solution" isn't a solution. Nice try though.

 

[17seconds]

It disables VSync when FPS is below 60. Check the linked article.

You are misunderstanding the problem, and your "solution" isn't a solution. Nice try though.

Then we'll just agree to disagree. His problem seems pretty simple, and I think I understand it very well: " I set VSync to on and this fix the tearing problem, but in some games it adds a new problem: input lag" and his request: "they could be other possible settings to use?"

I responded directly to his question by offering a possible setting to try. I've also offered evidence to back it up. In the end, it's the OP's decision if it's too much of a bother to even try to enable "Adaptive VSync", which is located right next to "VSync" in his Nvidia Control Panel drop down box. That's the nature of tweaking game settings, you try out different things and find the one that works. Since he hasn't chimed back in, I'm assuming he's tried it and it works... either that, or he's out shopping for a $700 G-Sync monitor right now. Let's hope not.