Question Is worth spending $50 /₹3000 more on i5 3570k ss compared to i5 2500k?

Aaradhya Sharma

Prominent
Mar 8, 2019
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Greetings
I'm planning to buy new cpu but in confused between i5 2500k and i5 3570k , but it's costs double(approx) 2500k. Which one should I get?
 

Barty1884

Titan
Moderator
I don't see any rationale in spending ~$50 on a 3570K in 2020, let alone +$50 over a 2500K
You should be able to find an i7-2600/2700/3770K for ~$80, making it a much more viable solution in 2020...... Even a locked i7 would be preferred in a lot of tasks/games over any strict quad-core i5 (unless you're exclusively playing older games, at which point the higher clocked, overclocked i5 would likely outperform).

There's very little difference between the 3570K and 2500K at stock, and the 2500K is a better overclocker - so you'll probably get "better" performance when all said and done from the 2500K anyway.
 

Aaradhya Sharma

Prominent
Mar 8, 2019
24
0
510
0
I don't see any rationale in spending ~$50 on a 3570K in 2020, let alone +$50 over a 2500K
You should be able to find an i7-2600/2700/3770K for ~$80, making it a much more viable solution in 2020...... Even a locked i7 would be preferred in a lot of tasks/games over any strict quad-core i5 (unless you're exclusively playing older games, at which point the higher clocked, overclocked i5 would likely outperform).

There's very little difference between the 3570K and 2500K at stock, and the 2500K is a better overclocker - so you'll probably get "better" performance when all said and done from the 2500K anyway.
I was trying to find to find a i7 but it's over priced at $170
 

Barty1884

Titan
Moderator
Don't buy that fake junk direct from china. Get a genuine used one in your own country. You dont' know what type of nefarious malware is in those chips that intel rip offs.
While 'fake' chips have done the rounds (IHS removed from modern chips & placed atop really old Celerons etc). that's far from widespread - and can usually be identified on price (10900K for $250 etc)

Not to mention, malware at a CPU level?? That's just not where the scammers are focusing their attention.
If/when the chip shows up, if the BIOS identifies it at a 2600K, then it's a 2600K same as any other 2600K.

Motherboards fail long before CPUs do (on average). Stands to reason there would be a stockpile of chips in Asia.
 
Not to mention, malware at a CPU level?? That's just not where the scammers are focusing their attention.
If/when the chip shows up, if the BIOS identifies it at a 2600K, then it's a 2600K same as any other 2600K.
Dead wrong. There are a lot of chip-level fakes out there that appear to be genuine in everything from ssds, to memory modules, to nics, to cpus. And to assume that they're 'the same' is just ignoring the difference.

Here's a good article to wake you up:
 

Barty1884

Titan
Moderator
So I guess you didn't read or comprehend the point--hence why fakes are still being dumped in the markets...
Not that I don't comprehend what you're claiming, I just haven't seen any evidence confirming your initial claim of "fake CPU with malware injected"

I fully acknowledge CPUs have IHS swaps, that makes it mis-sold... a fraudulent sale, not a 'fake' CPU. Malware at a CPU hardware level, just no.

Then your attempt at justification of a fake CPU with malware is a counterfeit NIC?
 
Not that I don't comprehend what you're claiming, I just haven't seen any evidence confirming your initial claim of "fake CPU with malware injected"

I fully acknowledge CPUs have IHS swaps, that makes it mis-sold... a fraudulent sale, not a 'fake' CPU. Malware at a CPU hardware level, just no.

Then your attempt at justification of a fake CPU with malware is a counterfeit NIC?
Ah, the old Internet 'you have to prove your point in this thread for me to deem it to be true.' :rolleyes:

My point is that there are a lot of people working on making fake and bogus products, many that are easily injected with backdoors and other such things that the general public won't know about but anyone dealing with cyberwarefare or cybersecurity damn well knows about. And one of the easiest way the consumer can avoid these pitfalls is to avoid fake or counterfeit goods. I don't have to prove anything to you or any other person that wants to believe otherwise--they are welcome to ignore good sense. "Stupid is as stupid does...."
 
You're no seriously suggesting a random claim (online or otherwise) should be blindly followed as true without proof?:rolleyes:

Avoiding fake or counterfeit goods = Good plan, no disputing that.

But fake or counterfeit does not = bought from a seller in China, which is what you said
This isn't a court of law and I'm not on trial here with a 'guilty until proven innocent' disposition. If someone is not smart enough to take ideas and research to come to their own conclusion, they should get off the Internet.

If you believe China is your friend and wants to give you 100% working goods at less than wholesale prices, then you haven't learned the lessons of 'it's too good to be true', and 'no one does something for nothing'. You also aren't aware of all the security and cybersecurity issues related to China's continuous IP theft. And that's fine if you're not versed in these--but don't call my ideas nonsense unless you have your 'proof' that it doesn't happen. :cautious:

And for the reader--take this as a lesson to find your own facts and come to your own conclusions about things, preferably from firsthand experiences. There are always morons on the Internet claiming they are right about one thing or another.
 

Barty1884

Titan
Moderator
This isn't a court of law and I'm not on trial here with a 'guilty until proven innocent' disposition.
I didn't say it was a court of law. But in life: In person, on the internet or wherever, if you make a claim, you should be prepared to back it up, accurately. Not anecdotally via something barely related to your claim.

If someone is not smart enough to take ideas and research to come to their own conclusion,.
When someone is presenting something as fact, there should be no need to arrive at their own conclusion.
Agreed, people should do their own research on unsubstantiated claims, which I have, and I completely disagree.

If you believe China is your friend and wants to give you 100% working goods at less than wholesale prices, then you haven't learned the lessons of 'it's too good to be true', and 'no one does something for nothing'. You also aren't aware of all the security and cybersecurity issues related to China's continuous IP theft.
Just want to check your rationale here..... If I was to order 10 of the CPUs from China and sell them within North America, that's different, how?
That would someone acquiring them 'safely' or locally...... but exactly the same CPU in question :rolleyes: You'd be happy if I bumped the price up to market standard?

And that's fine if you're not versed in these--but don't call my ideas nonsense unless you have your 'proof' that it doesn't happen. :cautious:
Sorry, you won't substantiate that is does happen, but you want proof that it doesn't?

There are always morons on the Internet claiming they are right about one thing or another.
The irony of this statement is not lost
 
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4745454b

Titan
Moderator
If your going to make a claim, back it up. This is no different than people who claim they OC'd their CPU to 7GHz. Where's the proof. As barty said some jerks swap the IHS and sell the chip. If you want to claim malwear on the CPU, please provide any real proof of this. Otherwise sit down and hellp the OP.
 
But in life: In person, on the internet or wherever, if you make a claim, you should be prepared to back it up, accurately.

When someone is presenting something as fact, there should be no need to arrive at their own conclusion.
Agreed, people should do their own research on unsubstantiated claims, which I have, and I completely disagree.

Just want to check your rationale here..... If I was to order 10 of the CPUs from China and sell them within North America, that's different, how?
That would someone acquiring them 'safely' or locally...... but exactly the same CPU in question :rolleyes: You'd be happy if I bumped the price up to market standard?

Sorry, you won't substantiate that is does happen, but you want proof that it doesn't?

The irony of this statement is not lost
And again here we go with the online 'court'. This isn't a debate--it's information. I read enough professional security publications to know a lot more than the average joe (or moderator) and don't have time to sit down and make a bibliography and dissertation for you. If you don't want to believe, don't. But don't promote fake and counterfeit goods being 'okay' to purchase. By doing so, you are actually encouraging illegal behavior that can harm the purchaser and violating the TOS for this site by doing so.

There is no such thing as a hard fact in this universe. It is all based on perspective. Anyone wise with enough life experience will understand this. What is true for you may not be true for someone else, so don't 'lead the witness' to your truth.

There are multiple ways to validate information, and one of them is to show what doesn't work. If you can't prove that it doesn't happen, then it does happen. For complex problems that do not have complete transparency of information, like covid research, cancer research, broken systems diagnostics, and working on cars, this is the prevalent method of reasoning because you don't know everything--which is something anyone with wisdom should already know. Prove what doesn't work and you are able to narrow in on what does work. This is the 'thinking outside the box' that people always refer to, with the box being that limited scope of what you actually know.

But I can play the same game if you want me to use your methodology--you need to prove that every single processor coming from direct china is malware free. And it's an easy answer--there's no way for you to prove that. No one can test every processor, and spot checking doesn't work either--the qa department in any company with manufacturing in china knows how they can skirt their way past spot checks. Therefore, the following conclusion can be drawn:
- Because there is no proof that malware is not being injected into direct China imports, it is possible that malware is being injected into direct China imports.

To address your point about chip distribution, let me explain to you how proper distribution works. For products to be valid, they typically have to be purchased through manufacturer authorized 'channels'. These channels are typically vetted for fakes and other shady stuff like being involved with illegal activity like human trafficking. Each distribution 'level' marks up a product 100% (50% margin) until it reaches the consumer. The MSRP is based on this markup from the last distributor to the consumer, but most retailers only mark up a fraction of 100% (something like 20% markup) making up the 'street price'. An interesting fact is that the distributors along the way make just as much net on the product as the end retailer, while never really dealing with end user customers. This is what is known as the 'b2b' market in today's lingo.

The point of illegal distribution is to introduce essentially illegal goods into this chain. The marketplace sites are very effective platforms for doing this because you can do exactly what you described--buy a load of illegal products and place them side by side with genuine products with a slight price advantage in the fake good implying to the consumer that it too is a legit product. This is how fakes and counterfeits have entered markets very easily. But these are NOT authorized products, and hence why the term 'authorized distributor' is used in warranty language by manufacturers. You can also price these fake goods at prices far below the normal distributors since it is going through some sort of 'underground' distribution scheme without any real regulation or vetting. This is also why these products can contain malware, which is always the next step in cyberwar once you've infiltrated a trusted system.

A similar legal product is the 'house brand'--for example the 'great value' walmart brand. While the materials used in these products is completely inferior to the genuine item, the product is marked up to its competitor implying that it is 'just as good'. This can fool consumers who can't discern the difference and leaves a huge margin for the house brand since they are making the full 100% (50% margin) on these products. It's why a lot of stores push their house brands. In computing, this 'house brand' is the 'oem' product--new and bought through the authorized distribution channel, but perhaps one step below the retail distributor so there is no retail warranty, or bought through the channel for systems integrators so again no retail warranty. And while these were easy to spot before as they could not be marketed as the retail product, the marketplace sites have made is easy to confuse the consumer again. These same resellers can then also stock illegal goods in their inventory and muddy the situation even more.

It's bad form when moderators operate like trolls, using their power to bully users and suppress information they do not agree with.
If your going to make a claim, back it up. This is no different than people who claim they OC'd their CPU to 7GHz. Where's the proof. As barty said some jerks swap the IHS and sell the chip. If you want to claim malwear on the CPU, please provide any real proof of this. Otherwise sit down and hellp the OP.
As I mentioned above, that is just one way to reason. If no one has proven that a 7Ghz overclock is impossible, then a 7Ghz oc would be possible. One then can make a personal decision to either believe the information or not, or dissect it further with critical thinking.

And again, I can play the same game if you want me to use your methodology--you need to prove that every single processor coming from direct china is malware free. You can't. No one can. The argument presented that there is no malware in direct china hardware imports has no 'proof'. :rolleyes:

There are many industry publications and articles behind pay walls and in print that focus specifically on the threat of malware from hardware from china (and elsewhere), and specifically fakes or very good counterfeits as the distribution medium. I'm not going to spend the time to link to them all because someone doesn't want to do the research. That's where my work stops--here's the concept and you can find the data and do the work. I'm not doing your math homework for you. :cautious:

In the case of the OP, it is important to get a genuine chip to avoid potential issues. At this age of the components, minor differences can cause issues that a genuine product may not, and if there is something else stuffed in the component that is not good either.
 

Barty1884

Titan
Moderator
I can’t believe I’m even entertaining a response to this, but for better or worse, I’ll offer a retort one final time.

This isn't a debate--it's information.
By definition of opposing arguments, it is in fact a debate.

don't promote fake and counterfeit goods being 'okay' to purchase. By doing so, you are actually encouraging illegal behavior that can harm the purchaser and violating the TOS for this site by doing so.
I've never promoted purchasing fake or counterfeit goods. I've suggested purchasing a used product from China. It may come as a shock, but not all goods coming from China are fakes. As I mentioned, I could purchase the CPUs and list them for sale in Canada or the US... that doesn't change what the CPUs are.

There is no such thing as a hard fact in this universe. It is all based on perspective. Anyone wise with enough life experience will understand this. What is true for you may not be true for someone else, so don't 'lead the witness' to your truth.
I see where you're going with this... but if you're going to subscribe to the scientific logic that there's no such thing as 'proof', only evidence.... it would stand to reason that you'd be prepared to provide evidence. Evidence is more than an arbitrary claim.

There are multiple ways to validate information, and one of them is to show what doesn't work. If you can't prove that it doesn't happen, then it does happen
Yes, to show every possibility that doesn’t ‘work’, to arrive at a conclusion.
Now, if my claim was ‘every CPU is legit’, you’d be on to something. Except that’s never been my claim.

Your claim however, is that all CPUs in China are fake & full of malware. Therefore, to ‘prove’ that, you’d have to discount all evidence to the contrary, however anecdotal it may be. If, to fit your agenda you must discount all evidence, then only one of us is failing to “think outside the box”.

But I can play the same game if you want me to use your methodology--you need to prove that every single processor coming from direct china is malware free.
Again, based on our respective claims, no I don’t. My claim has never been each/every, whereas yours has.

As a result, you would actually have to prove that every CPU coming from China is embedded with malware. Happy to let you take the wheel on that one. Please let me know your findings.

To address your point about chip distribution, let me explain to you how proper distribution works. For products to be valid, they typically have to be purchased through manufacturer authorized 'channels'.
I’m going to ‘nope’ out right there.

  1. Plenty CPUs are never ‘purchased’; Review samples, engineering samples etc. That doesn’t make them any less ‘valid’ as processors.
  2. The second hand market exists.. Doesn’t make them any less ‘valid;.
An interesting fact is that the distributors along the way make just as much net on the product as the end retailer,
Semantics, but the distributors etc along the way likely make more than the end retailer does.

This is also why these products can contain malware
And right here, your over-arching claim breaks down.

Don't buy that fake junk direct from china. Get a genuine used one in your own country. You don't know what type of nefarious malware is in those chips that are intel rip offs.
So is it all do? Or is it can, a theoretical possibility?

A similar legal product is the 'house brand'--for example the 'great value' walmart brand. While the materials used in these products is completely inferior to the genuine item
And yet for every (allegedly, according to you) ‘Great Value’ using inferior quality, there’s a ‘Kirkland Signature’ which, in a lot of cases is the same ‘name brand’ product with another label, sold in mass quantities to lower overall cost & guarantee volume sales to the ‘name brand’.

It's bad form when moderators operate like trolls, using their power to bully users and suppress information they do not agree with.
I agree, that would be bad form.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree that’s what is happening here. We have a differing opinion, which essentially boils down to

One opinion is that all CPUs sold from China are fake &/or injected with malware.
The other is that the claim is not true. Possible, on a small scale, definitely…. But not true in 100% of cases.

One of those ‘opinions’ can be proven as true& the other as false with a sample size of 1.

If no one has proven that a 7Ghz overclock is impossible, then a 7Ghz oc would be possible.
Ah, Schrodinger’s overclock. Both possible & not possible.

Possible that it can be done, given record OC’s are >8GHz on FX chips.
Not possible, to the average user…. Which, when an average user makes the claim, should be substantiated.


If you want to live your life blindly believing claims you hear by people who claim they know what they’re talking about…. You’re in for a bad time.

I’m sure even you would agree that arguments that back up their claims hold more weight?


Ok, I’m out.
 

4745454b

Titan
Moderator
I can play the same game if you want me to use your methodology--you need to prove that every single processor coming from direct china is malware free
But I'm not making the claim. Link, or go home. It's our job as mods to make sure claims are acurate. Back up the claim, or sit down and stop derailing thread. This isn't open for debate.
 
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