News January Windows security updates are breaking audio on PCs using external DACs

[Admin]

Bad January security updates are breaking USB 1.0 external DACs on recent Windows and Windows Server versions.

January Windows security updates are breaking audio on PCs using external DACs : Read more

 

[Giroro]

Windows 11 has had problems with external audio devices since at least last fall.
I plugged in my Audient USB audio interface on a mostly clean install (other than 3 days of work updating, transferring data, and installing most of my daily software) before manually installing the audio drivers, circa labor day. It irrecoverably broke boot so hard I had to go back to square 1 and reformat the SSD.

Windows 11, not even once, kids.

 

[DS426]

How common are USB 1.0 DACs? Aren't most of them USB 2.0 in modern times?

 

[hotaru251]

WIN11: [updates] "Lets see what we can break this time!"

every update seems to break stuff in 11 and its hilariously stupid as they have been doing os updates for 20 yrs

 

[warhorus]

As annoying as this is, I've been on pins and needles thinking my old Essence One was dying these past few weeks. So glad to hear it's a Microsoft issue.

 

[Syntaximus]

Update KB5049981 (Win 10) completed borked the drivers (API won't load) on my JDS Labs Element.
Had to uninstall and hide it (twice), which while not ideal, isn't ruining my audio setup...

 

[Joseph_138]

You couldn't expect Microsoft to keep supporting USB 1.0 devices indefinitely. It's time to move on.

 

[Joseph_138]

Windows 11 has had problems with external audio devices since at least last fall.
I plugged in my Audient USB audio interface on a mostly clean install (other than 3 days of work updating, transferring data, and installing most of my daily software) before manually installing the audio drivers, circa labor day. It irrecoverably broke boot so hard I had to go back to square 1 and reformat the SSD.

Windows 11, not even once, kids.

What will you do when Windows 12 comes out?

 

[TheOtherOne]

While they do claim, "Users can avoid this issue by avoiding the use of an external DAC in the connection process and directly plugging your audio device to your PC.",

Do they have any clue at all why people use external DACs and how those actually work? 😑 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[greymaterial]

You couldn't expect Microsoft to keep supporting USB 1.0 devices indefinitely. It's time to move on.

if you check most computer, the mouse and keyboard even if they are latsest gaming branded, run on USB 1.1.

 

[rambo919]

You couldn't expect Microsoft to keep supporting USB 1.0 devices indefinitely. It's time to move on.

Easy to say... less easy to always pay for. DAC's can be extremely expensive.

 

[anonymousdude]

How common are USB 1.0 DACs? Aren't most of them USB 2.0 in modern times?

They're not USB 1.0 DACs, they're the USB Audio Class 1.0 DACs which are still fairly common. If you've got a USB DAC that's older and/or only supports up to 24bit/96kHz then it's fairly likely that the you have a UAC 1.0 DAC. PS4 and PS5 only support UAC 1.0 DACs, so anything marked as compatible with those is UAC 1.0 or have UAC 1.0 fallback.

 

[Syntaximus]

^ This.

The industry standard is UAC1; latest and greatest being UAC2, which is still based off of USB 2.0.
Audio gear doesn't need to keep pace to achieve their goals from a hardware perspective.

These devices can also cost upwards of four figures, which is why it's more of a big deal than one might think.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Windows 11 has had problems with external audio devices since at least last fall.
I plugged in my Audient USB audio interface on a mostly clean install (other than 3 days of work updating, transferring data, and installing most of my daily software) before manually installing the audio drivers, circa labor day. It irrecoverably broke boot so hard I had to go back to square 1 and reformat the SSD.

Windows 11, not even once, kids.

New motherboards will not have any PCI slots. MS no longer pays the Dolby surround fee. Unless you use a PCIe --> PCI Wave goodbye to the internal sound, WiFi cards and external DAC's. All are Windows history.

 

[Elusive Ruse]

I had more issues with my audio interface on Win10, every day I had to deal with sound not playing ir cutting off mid-play etc. So far I have been lucky with my experience using the same interface on Win11.

 

[OldAnalogWorld]

What struck me most about W10 is that in their native drivers, you can choose in a couple of clicks in the tray where to send the sound without pulling out the headphones - to the laptop speakers or to the headphones. But when installing native Realtek drivers, this most convenient option disappears in the W10 tray. And apparently in W11 as well.

Personally, I don't like watching movies under W10/11 - the system latency is clearly visible(big frame jitter) to the eye when smoothly scrolling video scenes. As well as many problems with sound, especially in laptops. In XP, everything runs perfectly smoothly on old hardware. But here, on much more powerful hardware, there is no such smoothness and such minimal system latency - 10-20ms as in XP, it is at least an order of magnitude greater and increases with each version. XP is best for music and smooth video.

In addition, some experienced users know that after XP, Realtek cut out a really good version of Dolby Headphone from the drivers (it is also available in PowerDVD now, but the quality is slightly worse and it is not omnivorous in terms of input formats) for licensing reasons. Therefore, owners of machines with Vista+ up to the latest W11 are deprived of such surround sound as was in XP with the licensed DH enabled in Realtek. Well-known opensource DH emulators are much worse at the HRTF function level. Dolby Atmos and the pathetic likeness of DH that comes in a number of motherboards and laptops with W7-W11 have nothing in common with this high-quality DH in XP.

What else is cool about XP? Realtek drivers in this OS automatically transmit a stereo signal to the rear channels (which requires additional efforts in new versions of Windows). Also, in XP, you do not need to worry about transmitting a digital signal via a galvanically isolated SPDIF to an external DAC with a separate headphone amplifier, as in W7-W11. There the sound is automatically copied to all outputs simultaneously.

I have an old machine specially tuned for sound and video on a projector with XP. If I need to watch a movie (which we do less and less often, because there are almost no good movies left) on headphones, and not on acoustics, I just need to turn on an external DAC connected to the PC via optical SPDIF and it automatically transmits 5.1-7.1 in DH to the optics, where it goes to headphones tuned for it with good processing and low frequencies. The sound is such that it seems that ordinary acoustics are working around (although of course the lowest frequencies are not available to any headphones - that shock wave that hits the chest from powerful woofers), and rain in the cinema, doorbells, etc. sometimes you confuse them with real ones at home...

Many experienced users probably know that when checking new models of laptops and PCs in a number of reviews, for system latency, they fail the test for real-time applications like sound processing - the latency is monstrous, even with correctly installed drivers. This is the Achilles heel of the W7+ and especially W10/11 versions. Laptop manufacturers are aware of this, but can do little, since they depend on proprietary drivers for many components.

 

[Eximo]

Urge to Linux rising...

One computer down, one to go.

 

[OneMoreUser]

How common are USB 1.0 DACs? Aren't most of them USB 2.0 in modern times?

Likely pretty common. The bandwidth needed for audio isn't a lot, so it makes sense for devices to use the lowest possible USB standard to max comparability.

USB is backwards compatible, so plugging in a USB 1.1 device in a 2.0 port means the port will just do the 1.1. Or rather USB would be backwards compatible if Microsoft didn't mess that up also.

 

[rambo919]

snip

Isnt this more indicative of a Realtek problem than a windows one though?

 

[Syntaximus]

Looks like it's fixed now (haven't tried yet).
They're not rolling it out automatically though until Feb's patch Tues.

https://betanews.com/2025/01/30/mic...to-fix-audio-issues-caused-by-earlier-update/

 

[Fox Tread33]

January 30, 2025 - I know that Microsoft has chosen to support just about every version of Windows since the stone age. However, I have to question how the Microsoft software engineers test their "updates". It seems to me that they probably have sample equipment that runs every version of Windows that are worthy of testing. I assume there are more technical ways of testing the "update" software other than running tests on actual machines running ancient versions of Windows. One of the things that mystifies me, is why aside from security patches. The "geniuses" at Microsoft feel that they have to "fix" things that aren't broken, or add "features" that the average user hasn't asked for, or probably needs. Regarding the subject of this article. I just use standard desktop speakers, but I have noticed on a number of occasions that after an "update" of the non-security type. My desktop Win11 PC, and sometimes my Win10 desktop PC will have some kind of problem. Most often it is audio related, and I have to jump through all of the hoops trying to solve the problem. Often, I use the "system restore" feature and it solves the problem. In other cases it doesn't. I create a new system restore point every couple of days on my machines, but especially before allowing the latest "update" to shut down and restart my computers. If everything seems to be working properly, I create another system restore point on my PCs and on my external drives which I don't normally keep connected to my PCs.. just in case 😏 Most recently, I had to swap out some older logi speakers with newer ones on my Win11 machine because I was getting periodic sound distortion that I couldn't eliminate. Swapping out the speakers seems to have fixed the problem, and it could be that the older speakers were going bad. However... this article confirms for me that the issues I experience after Windows updates, are caused by those updates. Most recently, I had problems with a program's desktop short cuts, because the external drive was connected to a USB hub. This of course happened after an "update". The "adventure" continues.😡 I know... I know.. LINUX!!!🙄

 

[tazmo8448]

Windows 11 has had problems with external audio devices since at least last fall.
I plugged in my Audient USB audio interface on a mostly clean install (other than 3 days of work updating, transferring data, and installing most of my daily software) before manually installing the audio drivers, circa labor day. It irrecoverably broke boot so hard I had to go back to square 1 and reformat the SSD.

Windows 11, not even once, kids.

Not too sure what you mean in that last sentence. Post starts saying Windows 11 and the issue then lastly says Windows 11, not even once kids. Does that mean upon reformat no issues?

 

[Syntaximus]

^ He means don't use Windows 11 at all (his take).
"Not even once" is an expression commonly used for drugs like meth or crack.

 

[lemongrassgarlic]

What struck me most about W10 is that in their native drivers, you can choose in a couple of clicks in the tray where to send the sound without pulling out the headphones - to the laptop speakers or to the headphones. But when installing native Realtek drivers, this most convenient option disappears in the W10 tray. And apparently in W11 as well.

Personally, I don't like watching movies under W10/11 - the system latency is clearly visible(big frame jitter) to the eye when smoothly scrolling video scenes. As well as many problems with sound, especially in laptops. In XP, everything runs perfectly smoothly on old hardware. But here, on much more powerful hardware, there is no such smoothness and such minimal system latency - 10-20ms as in XP, it is at least an order of magnitude greater and increases with each version. XP is best for music and smooth video.

In addition, some experienced users know that after XP, Realtek cut out a really good version of Dolby Headphone from the drivers (it is also available in PowerDVD now, but the quality is slightly worse and it is not omnivorous in terms of input formats) for licensing reasons. Therefore, owners of machines with Vista+ up to the latest W11 are deprived of such surround sound as was in XP with the licensed DH enabled in Realtek. Well-known opensource DH emulators are much worse at the HRTF function level. Dolby Atmos and the pathetic likeness of DH that comes in a number of motherboards and laptops with W7-W11 have nothing in common with this high-quality DH in XP.

What else is cool about XP? Realtek drivers in this OS automatically transmit a stereo signal to the rear channels (which requires additional efforts in new versions of Windows). Also, in XP, you do not need to worry about transmitting a digital signal via a galvanically isolated SPDIF to an external DAC with a separate headphone amplifier, as in W7-W11. There the sound is automatically copied to all outputs simultaneously.

I have an old machine specially tuned for sound and video on a projector with XP. If I need to watch a movie (which we do less and less often, because there are almost no good movies left) on headphones, and not on acoustics, I just need to turn on an external DAC connected to the PC via optical SPDIF and it automatically transmits 5.1-7.1 in DH to the optics, where it goes to headphones tuned for it with good processing and low frequencies. The sound is such that it seems that ordinary acoustics are working around (although of course the lowest frequencies are not available to any headphones - that shock wave that hits the chest from powerful woofers), and rain in the cinema, doorbells, etc. sometimes you confuse them with real ones at home...

Many experienced users probably know that when checking new models of laptops and PCs in a number of reviews, for system latency, they fail the test for real-time applications like sound processing - the latency is monstrous, even with correctly installed drivers. This is the Achilles heel of the W7+ and especially W10/11 versions. Laptop manufacturers are aware of this, but can do little, since they depend on proprietary drivers for many components.

Well said ! My old Dell from 2006 (XP) has better audio than new one with these mediocre Realtek chips and bad Realtek drivers.
And yes watching movies in XP was far smoother than in W11. Connecting to a TV with motion smoothing , makes it better.
Realtek audio is so bad and on my computer only 48khz , that I use a Fiio K11 for better audio and hear 96k audio tracks. I has USB -C so better than USB 1 that MS broke. But then again I don't update...
Latency wasn't that great in XP too. I guess it depends on the computer makers effort .
Linux ?? I read that Linux downsamples all audio to 44,1k . Linux doesn't even switch when you plug in a headphone.
W11 knows this , switches or and you can choose . For me : internal speakers , HP , the Fiio or TV (when connected).

 

[OldAnalogWorld]

Isnt this more indicative of a Realtek problem than a windows one though?

Monstrous system latency and jitter on video, this is a problem of Windows together with its drivers. On XP everything was much better. This is the best version of Windows. Was and is. Namely from the point of view of sound and video. It just had normal 64-bit support and a number of new technologies.

Realtek audio is so bad and on my computer only 48khz

On the analog output of the 4-pin connector, this makes little sense, although the old drivers had no restrictions - 32-192 kHz. That is, these are intentional new marketing restrictions in mass series. But those who really want to listen to quality music - almost all have long ago bought external DACs with headphone amplifiers, at least for $ 250-300 and up. But the lack of an optical output in modern laptops is simply infuriating, because previously it was there and provided 100% galvanic isolation from the noisy electrical circuits of the laptop. Well, smooth video playback in W10 / 11 is some kind of disgrace even on YouTube. It's ridiculous! For example, a fairly new laptop with Zen+ 5 years ago, with hardware decoders VP9 up to 4k@60fps is not capable, under W10, with the latest AMD drivers for this series, to provide smooth, without VSync failure, playback, while even one of my old PCs - with a 15-year-old motherboard and a 15-year-old processor (overclocked by 40%) easily and many times smoother plays the same video under W10 LTSB, decoding it software! This is just a complete degradation of the developers of drivers and OS of the latest versions ...

And the most shameful thing is that if you download such a video in 4k from YouTube and run it in MPC-HC there is generally ideal smooth playback, with software decoding on a 15-year-old processor! This means that all browsers are written incorrectly and the load on their hardware is such, even with hardware decoders, that everything works very badly. The most interesting thing is that I had to roll back AMD drivers to Zen+ igpu, because the latest version of Adrenaline increases the load on the processor by 2-2.5 times and at the same time the processor does not reduce the frequency to 1.4 GHz, as in the old drivers. For the same reason, despite 6 years of support for this Lenovo series, which ends at the end of 2025, it still does not update the video drivers since 2020. Simply because the 2020 video driver is modified by Lenovo - it works much better under both W10 and W11. Otherwise, it would have updated it long ago, like the rest of the drivers...

I don't understand why everything is so bad with drivers and OS, despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of people work at Microsoft and there are more and more of them...