John Romero: PC is Decimating Console in Price Alone

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NeatOman

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Think its also why both Microsoft and Sony decided to use "normal" hardware this time around. The only difference is that Microsoft has eSRAM that gains large amounts of bandwidth for a small 32MB portion so that things that need it can take advantage.. like anything compute heavy.. rendering hair or physics come to mind, its like Super RAM if you will.
 

dovah-chan

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As a PC enthusiast myself I don't like elitism. People have different reasons for their preferred platform. You could easily make the argument that '12 year olds' flood both the PC and consoles. (for instance gmod, tf2 and minecraft on the pc. and on consoles they usually hang out on generic fps games) I just wish that people could respect other people's purchases and decisions without putting their own feelings in the middle of it.
 

back_by_demand

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One man's elitism is another man's truism. PCs are better, they do more, have more and do it better. The only issue for some is cost and perceived technical requirements but Steam has removed all that, with the UI it is as easy as a console and with sales the TCO is less than a console. Not elitist, simply true.
 

Shayne ONeill

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I think its good for gamers in the short term, but there will be a price to pay as an industry for $5 steam games. I used to do iphone app development and when I started I could clear close to $5K a week. But the market got flooded with $1 shovelware that both drowned out the quality stuff but also caused consumers to expect quality apps to only be worth $1 or $2 , even high quality 3D games with hundreds of thousands of man hour labor behind it. In the end its driven a lot of content creators out of the platform (And Android is even worse I'm afraid) because its just not safe to invest a few hundred thousand dollars into it and have it drowned out of the market by 900 versions of "flappy bird" for $2 each and end up going bankerupt.

I can see steam potentially having this danger where games, really frigging expensive things to make if you want AAA quality not being profitable anymore and causing people to leave the industry because people aren't game to gamble on investment.

That means ultimately less quality choice for the consumer.

Don't get me wrong steams great, and surprisingly there are still some really good games in there, but people should be wary of it and not let it monopolize game distribution or PC gaming could end up being about flappy bird clones and yet-another-fake-8-bit-shovelware apps and not about high quality compelling and deep games like PC games should
 

airborne11b

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As a PC enthusiast myself I don't like elitism. People have different reasons for their preferred platform. You could easily make the argument that '12 year olds' flood both the PC and consoles. (for instance gmod, tf2 and minecraft on the pc. and on consoles they usually hang out on generic fps games) I just wish that people could respect other people's purchases and decisions without putting their own feelings in the middle of it.
Back by demand is absolutely right. Nothing said here is "elitism", it's just a fact of life. Consoles save money because their hardware costs are subsidized by game licencing fees. The company can eat $100 or $200 and sell the console at a reduce price compared to a comparable PC of similar specs. But they do this because they make $10 or so on every game they sell. The first few games in the life cycle recoup the cost of the hardware, and every game after that is just money in their pocket. Over a 6, 7, 8 year life cycle of a game, people buy dozens, if not hundreds of games.

PC you have to invest slightly more in hardware, but facts are facts. Free 2 Play, steam sales, indie games, backwards compatibility. The end result is that console initial purchases may be slightly cheaper, but over the long run PC is drastically cheaper than consoles. Even if you buy upgraded hardware every year or 2. The cost of PC games after F2P and Steam sales covers those costs many times over.

Do not mistake plain fact for "elitism" please.
 

ddpruitt

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Each system has it's strengths and weaknesses. And contrary to Romero's comment consoles aren't being decimated by free to play and $5 games, all 3 console makers have them. The problem is distribution and marketing. If one of the console makers got smart and went with Steam for there digital distribution then they would absolutely kill IMO. Speaking as someone who owns both there is a place for console gaming (Mario Kart for example) and there is a place for PC gaming (seriously who can you play FPS any other way?). It also looks as though consoles are moving towards digital so the backwards compatible argument may change over the next few years. Oh and playing a DOS game from the 80s or an Win95 game from the 90s can be a PITA.
 

godfather666

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I think its good for gamers in the short term, but there will be a price to pay as an industry for $5 steam games. I used to do iphone app development and when I started I could clear close to $5K a week. But the market got flooded with $1 shovelware that both drowned out the quality stuff but also caused consumers to expect quality apps to only be worth $1 or $2 , even high quality 3D games with hundreds of thousands of man hour labor behind it. In the end its driven a lot of content creators out of the platform (And Android is even worse I'm afraid) because its just not safe to invest a few hundred thousand dollars into it and have it drowned out of the market by 900 versions of "flappy bird" for $2 each and end up going bankerupt.

I can see steam potentially having this danger where games, really frigging expensive things to make if you want AAA quality not being profitable anymore and causing people to leave the industry because people aren't game to gamble on investment.

That means ultimately less quality choice for the consumer.

Don't get me wrong steams great, and surprisingly there are still some really good games in there, but people should be wary of it and not let it monopolize game distribution or PC gaming could end up being about flappy bird clones and yet-another-fake-8-bit-shovelware apps and not about high quality compelling and deep games like PC games should
I fully agree. I mean, just read carefully what this guy in the article is saying. He's outright declaring that AAA studios are shutting down, so it's no secret this is trend of F2P and hugely discounted games is negatively affecting high-budget games. I know high budget doesn't always mean good, but I think I will miss having more AAA games.
 

airborne11b

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Each system has it's strengths and weaknesses. And contrary to Romero's comment consoles aren't being decimated by free to play and $5 games, all 3 console makers have them. The problem is distribution and marketing. If one of the console makers got smart and went with Steam for there digital distribution then they would absolutely kill IMO. Speaking as someone who owns both there is a place for console gaming (Mario Kart for example) and there is a place for PC gaming (seriously who can you play FPS any other way?). It also looks as though consoles are moving towards digital so the backwards compatible argument may change over the next few years. Oh and playing a DOS game from the 80s or an Win95 game from the 90s can be a PITA.
PITA, but doable none the less and in the case of most games released in the past 15 - 20 years is completely doable with little to no effort.

Also, the Mario Kart argument isn't very valid. I love Mario Kart 8, and I own a lot of toys, to include SHIELD, tablets, Wii U, PCs, a HTPC, 3DS, etc etc. But there is nothing functionality wise that a PC can't do that the Wii U does.

I can play 2 - 4 player racing games using Xbox 360 controllers on my HTPC.

The comment by Romero is mostly pointing out that PC has all the strengths, without any of the console weaknesses, at a fraction of the cost. These are just facts. It's not saying "PCz rule don't buy consoles u noob". He was just kindly explaining the current state of affairs and nothing he said was even remotely debatable.
 

blppt

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"id Software co-founder and Doom creator John Romero"

Note how the word "Daikatana" is missing here.... :p
To be fair, Romero's Ion Storm DID publish Deus Ex, so not all of his contributions have been laughable
 

skit75

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As mentioned... not all the F2P or $5 & under games are flappy bird remakes. Many are AAA titles that have grown a little long in the tooth and are getting rehashed by people who didn't initially feel like paying $60.00 for it or it never hit their radar at the time. These games wouldn't even be on a retail shelf at this point but are now continuing to generate revenue... even if only at $5.00 at a time.
 

dovah-chan

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my comment really wasn't a comment about the article but more of the comments to come. (Peecee moostard roose) I'm well aware of how cheap pc gaming can be after the initial investment. I only speak for people who want to play exclusives on consoles (such as my self wanting to get a ps3 for demon's souls and a ps4 for bloodbourne)

 

edogawa

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PC is better in many aspects, but a consoles are not the same anymore. When consoles were good it was, insert game, and play. Now it's a fully fledged entertainment system for one low price. I think they have their place as a casual gaming system now, but their main purpose is for movies, music, web-browsing, etc.

Consoles are a good investment for a living room entertainment setup, mobility, and gaming with friends easily. I grew up using both PC and Console, and I love both, but PC IS better for gaming now. PC is becoming more and more streamlined and cheaper too.
 

skit75

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My PS3 is pretty much just my Netflix machine at this point. Sometimes it plays CD's too. =)
 

rayden54

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The article should read "Why the ftp model is destroying AAA gaming" or something to that effect. It has nothing to do with the PC vs Console debate. The "PC master race" isn't dropping hundreds of dollars on a graphics card to play Candy Crush Saga. They're two completely different markets.
 

aule10

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I think its good for gamers in the short term, but there will be a price to pay as an industry for $5 steam games. I used to do iphone app development and when I started I could clear close to $5K a week. But the market got flooded with $1 shovelware that both drowned out the quality stuff but also caused consumers to expect quality apps to only be worth $1 or $2 , even high quality 3D games with hundreds of thousands of man hour labor behind it. In the end its driven a lot of content creators out of the platform (And Android is even worse I'm afraid) because its just not safe to invest a few hundred thousand dollars into it and have it drowned out of the market by 900 versions of "flappy bird" for $2 each and end up going bankerupt.

I can see steam potentially having this danger where games, really frigging expensive things to make if you want AAA quality not being profitable anymore and causing people to leave the industry because people aren't game to gamble on investment.

That means ultimately less quality choice for the consumer.

Don't get me wrong steams great, and surprisingly there are still some really good games in there, but people should be wary of it and not let it monopolize game distribution or PC gaming could end up being about flappy bird clones and yet-another-fake-8-bit-shovelware apps and not about high quality compelling and deep games like PC games should
I fully agree. I mean, just read carefully what this guy in the article is saying. He's outright declaring that AAA studios are shutting down, so it's no secret this is trend of F2P and hugely discounted games is negatively affecting high-budget games. I know high budget doesn't always mean good, but I think I will miss having more AAA games.
What it means is that AAA devs cant make crappy games anymore, because there is a lot of low budget games there have just as good graphic and gameplay as an AAA game. A game like saints row was an indi game, and is actually still that, they had about 50 to make Saints row the third and 4. and is a really good game with decent graphic.

The problem with AAA games is a lot of them don't give us something else. It is supposed to be bigger better and prettier, but often is not that, and that is why they close, not because of the F2P or Indi games, but because they don't provide a better product.
 

f-14

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John Romero is making a real quack of himself. pc demo cds have been around since the late 80's.
i have a demo cd still of ultima and monkey island as well as rise of nations all from Best Buy and before best buy when they were just Best. i had gotten tons of my free demo cds or $1.99 to $3.95 demo cds and a box full from my pc magazine subscriptions such as pc gamer. they even included free trial aol and norton anti virus on them along with 3 or 4 other games. starcraft you could even share with a friend if you handed them the 2nd disc! x-wing had no serial key nor did diablo! duke nukem was the most popular free trial cd along with descent! heck when you bought a pc at the store alot of these games and other applications came free pre loaded with them or as a full version cd in the box along with alot of demo cds of partial or limited time trial demos!
 

f-14

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also games back then were not $50 they were $20 to $30. pc game prices only started to rise when consoles tried to compete with the advent of writing medal of honor and call of duty for the play station but could only fit 1/2 the easiest parts of the game on playstation discs. games for the play station were $40 so prices on pc games were jacked up to be the same price!

the only thing consoles have done as games became cross written for multi platforms is the games have been severely crippled and gutted and the prices have been fixed so as pc can not instantly out shine the consoles in every aspect of being better performance, better price and upgradeable as well as longer lasting before needing upgrading!

analogy: consoles are like 8 track with out the record feature. pcs's are discmans over a decade ahead of every console.
 

oxiide

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He's basically saying that McDonalds' $1 buy 1 get 1 free cheeseburgers are killing $40 high class steaks.
Spoken like someone who doesn't play enough free games to know that there's at least some $40 high-class steaks among them.
 

tomfreak

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Remove publisher, remove Marketing(use facebook for publicty, if ur game is good u dont need marketing), remove retailer, remove recording company(all digital) = Game can sell $30 @ launch price without DLCs afterward.

*I still dont get it why digital games still selling the same price as physical copy.
 
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