News Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power — government now requiring commercial miners to report energy consumption

[vanadiel007]

I am waiting for the moment AI figures out a vulnerability with crypto currency. A lot of money will be lost in the blink of an eye.

And before someone say there's no such thing as a vulnerability with blockchain, anything software or hardware based has 1 or more vulnerabilities. It's just a matter of thinking outside the box, and AI is perfect for that.

 

[yeyibi]

None of us do.

So you cannot claim to know the value for them.

Cryptos are worth what people pay for them, and people only pay for something when the value of what they buy is higher than the price they pay for it. Otherwise they would not buy the crypto or anything else.

 

[vanadiel007]

If people buys it, it offers value. Value is subjective.

Who are you to decide the value of things for other people? Is the same as deciding if other people can be gay or not, or which religion they can have. You may believe what it has no value, but your opinion is irrelevant, because you are not on their place, and is none of your business to decide the value of anything for other people.

That would by default make any opinion irrelevant, including yours.
Things do not work like that in real life.

 

[USAFRet]

So you cannot claim to know the value for them.

Similarly, you cannot know the "value" (or lack of) for me.

Lets drop this, OK?

 

[yeyibi]

Similarly, you cannot know the "value" (or lack of) for me.

That's exactly my point. Why you repeat it to me?

 

[vanadiel007]

One could make the argument that crypto mining was at the basis of the huge R&D efforts to produce ever faster graphic chips and graphics card.

One could also make the argument that since mining using graphics card has diminished greatly, AI is the new thing that is gobbling up "chips" and power.

It will be interesting to see what is next for the graphic card industry. It has been a very profitable source of income and wealth generation, even employment and R&D across the globe.
Question would be, does that balance the usage of mining power?

 

[yeyibi]

That would by default make any opinion irrelevant, including yours.

No. When you pay for something, that something has value for you, so you decide the price of it.
We are arguing about the value of things, like the value of crypto.

The value of things is decided by the person that values it.

What is irrelevant is the opinion of the people who does not value it, because they do not set the price.

Things do not work like that in real life.

"Value is subjective" is the most important concept to understand how things work in real life.

 

[NinoPino]

No. You are wrong in all of that.
-Central banks are adopting Crypto currencies, (CDBC) so you are wrong at the start.

And this what does means ?

-If you saved $100 dollar in the year 2000, at this date, you lost more than 50% of your savings due to inflation.
-Inflation, in long term, only depends on the quantity of money printed. It's a lie that it "depends on the society".

Just suppose there is a war, than become difficult to obtain corn and wheat so the price of these products goes up, consequently all goods produced with these materials will have the price increased. At this point the life is a bit more expensive than before. This is inflation without new money printed.

-You do not talk in name of any of the 8 billion people in the planet.

Never supposed to do it.

-The Chinese can only save by buying houses, but more than 400 million Chinese were scammed by the government. They spent all their life savings buying "tofu houses",and were scammed by the government. Lost all their life savings, and will never recover it.
-Hundreds of millions of Latin Americans and people in poor countries cannot save in any other way than with crypto.

In these countries the problems are cause by currency type.

-If you travel with cash, you may be robbed by pickpockets. You cannot carry more than a small amount in cash without being robbed by governments at airports.

Crypto can be also stolen, only the way is different.
On this example the standard currencies have an advantage, if the thief stole your pocket you loose few money, if instead stole your crypto pocket...
And there is the risk of loose the key to access the crypto pocket... 😀

-If you use a bank account, you pay enormous expenses in transferences, financial services that you never agreed, and exchange rates.

For transfers it depends on the bank, this is not strictly dependent on the currency.
Exchange rates is a problem of having multiple currencies. If the world decide to use only 1 currency, problem solved.
Who knows, maybe in the future every country will have a different crypto currency, US-bitcoin, EU-bitcoin, UK-cryptopound, and so on.

-Today people is denied use of bank accounts for the crime of individual opinion, like posting something in facebook, that somebody else may interpret as offensive, even without merit.

Also here the problems are not the currency type.

 

[vanadiel007]

No. When you pay for something, that something has value for you, so you decide the price of it.
We are arguing about the value of things, like the value of crypto.

The value of things is decided by the person that values it.

What is irrelevant is the opinion of the people who does not value it, because they do not set the price.

"Value is subjective" is the most important concept to understand how things work in real life.

Well, the article is about the consumption of electricity by mining operations.

The value of that electricity is determined by the operator of the grid, not the person that values the electricity.
The pricing is tightly regulated to ensure it's affordable to those who need it. Even if you wanted to pay more for it because you value it more, you could not.

 

[FunSurfer]

So now there are two options left for future currency:
Downgrade to AI based crypto mining that use the the power mentioned above plus the AI power consumption.
Upgrade to cash that use only fraction of the energy to produce and zero power to use.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

If people buys it, it offers value. Value is subjective.

Who are you to decide the value of things for other people?

Concerned citizen who doesn't see the value in faux digital money being used to subvert legitimate backed government fiat currency.

Is the same as deciding if other people can be gay or not, or which religion they can have. You may believe what it has no value, but your opinion is irrelevant, because you are not on their place, and is none of your business to decide the value of anything for other people.

Crypto-Currency is a FAR cry from a personal choice like who they want to love, or what religion they want to have.

Crypto-Currency is half Ponzi Scheme, half method for criminals to launder money.
The financial effects it has on society along with the wasted energy is of HUGE concern to anybody.
It is very much a concern of any citizen who cares about the country they live in and the affects it has on us.

So yes, it does matter.

So now there are two options left for future currency:
Downgrade to AI based crypto mining that use the the power mentioned above plus the AI power consumption.
Upgrade to cash that use only fraction of the energy to produce and zero power to use.

Cash FTW!

 

[reverb256]

Concerned citizen who doesn't see the value in faux digital money being used to subvert legitimate backed government fiat currency.


Crypto-Currency is a FAR cry from a personal choice like who they want to love, or what religion they want to have.

Crypto-Currency is half Ponzi Scheme, half method for criminals to launder money.
The financial effects it has on society along with the wasted energy is of HUGE concern to anybody.
It is very much a concern of any citizen who cares about the country they live in and the affects it has on us.

So yes, it does matter.


Cash FTW!

What makes government money more legitimate than private money? There's nothing wrong with having an open permissionless and programmatically predictable technology to store and transfer value. I bet you're one of those people who cheered on the Canadian government for freezing the bank accounts of dissenters while slandering and lying about them. The energy communists on this forum are a joke.

 

[ex_bubblehead]

Alright. Let's get back to the topic at hand and stop the petty bickering about bitcoin.

 

[Order 66]

Alright. Let's get back to the topic at hand and stop the petty bickering about bitcoin.

On the topic, I find it somewhat hard to believe, I don’t understand how bitcoin mining could possibly use that much power.

 

[USAFRet]

On the topic, I find it somewhat hard to believe, I don’t understand how bitcoin mining could possibly use that much power.

Its not just some dude running a PC in his moms garage...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82vMOVREXzM

 

[Lafong]

A quick Google says the USA uses about 4.07 trillion KWH per year; as of 2022.

2.3 percent of that is 93.6 billion.

How many super-duper mining PCs could account for that?

At 2000 watts each, that would be 46,800,000 PCs.

At 4000 watts, about 23,400,000.

I have NO idea how much a high powered miner actually uses.

USA per capita consumption is approaching 12,000 KWH per year.

USA usage about 14 times what it was in 1950.

Which must mean circa 7 times more per capita since the population has roughly doubled since then.

 

[Order 66]

Its not just some dude running a PC in his moms garage...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82vMOVREXzM

Right, never mind, I’m stupid. I misunderstood, I thought by 137 crypto miners, it meant 137 rigs, I completely forgot about entire server farms dedicated to it.

 

[purpleduggy]

Useless and most immoral take ever.

immoral to have a surplus of power and grow industry and jobs? we should just build the dyson sphere and get on with it.

 

[purpleduggy]

They need to be regulated into oblivion.

Crypto Currency offers nothing of value to society.

bitter and salty plus seethe. its ok not everyone has the guts to take a chance when they should. don't beat yourself up about the lost opportunities.

 

[USAFRet]

Awright....
One last warning.

Do not attack the user...speak to the topic.

Any further transgressions will not end well.

Are we all agreed?

 

[scottslayer]

I'm hoping the government can greatly expand the list because Texas is close to 100 operational last I heard and Illinois has at least 15.

 

[purpleduggy]

Even here, we are using more than 90% of green electricity, and the government is doing everything to discourage miners to come here. Crypto is a ponzi scheme wasting natural resources for speculating and maintaining organized crime.

do you fight bus drivers too when you miss your chance to get on in time? 😉

 

[purpleduggy]

Awright....
One last warning.

Do not attack the user...speak to the topic.

Any further transgressions will not end well.

Are we all agreed?

nah.

 

[Order 66]

Awright....
One last warning.

Do not attack the user...speak to the topic.

Any further transgressions will not end well.

Are we all agreed?

Agreed. I still don’t really understand the point of crypto other than that it is decentralized. With how volatile it is, I just don’t see the point.

 

[vanadiel007]

Makes me wonder how much power is used worldwide each day to power the internet?
Technically speaking we don't need the internet, as there was a time the world turned fine without the internet existing.

So should we shut it down because it consumes to much power, power that cold be used to heat homes?