Killed by a fall onto poisoned spikes ...

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I seem to be able to prevent most deaths but this one always gets me.
Eating monsters that grant poison resistance before acquiring a unicorn
horn is a bad idea because you frequently end up getting poisoned. Should
I stay on the first five levels of the dungeon until I acquire poison
resistance? Or should I proceed to level 6, but very carefully, and being
sure to search multiple times on each square to make sure I'm not running
into a poison spike trap?

--
~ Cyde Weys ~
So say we all.
 
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Sometimes the random number generation is just against you, and there's
not a lot you can do about it. I had a recent promising game (already
had my gray dragon scale mail and Magicbane) that was ended by a fall
onto UNPOISIONED spikes. I had a close shave fighting off monsters,
and on my way to retreat somewhere safe to rest up my character set off
the undiscovered trap.

It was my first game in something like seven years of playing that was
ended by trap damage. Usually the traps that kill me are those that
produce monsters, or polymorph me into something that destroys good
equipment, or teleports me into trouble.

It is possible to win almost every game of Nethack, but that requires
extremely careful play. Players tend to find their own balance between
survival and carelessness -- mind tends to stray over on the careless
side, yet I still seem to be having a lot of wins lately. I don't even
do things like price-ID items in shops, other than magic lamps and
scrolls of identify. That first magic lamp is often enough to mean an
ascension in the end -- when I finally start trying to play conducts,
wishless is going to be tricky for me.

- John H.
 
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james wrote:

> Once you have a path, stick to it. Step where monsters step, or
where your
> pet steps.

I generally use this approach to reduce the chance of being killed by a
falling stone on xp lvl 1. Until I get a metal helmet or high enough
HP's that the trap wont be fatal I ensure I move through a room using
the minimum possible number of steps and if I retrun to a room I use
the same safe path.

I don't bother to search for these things. It's a risk but if the rng
is out to get you thats the way it is
 

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John H. wrote:
>
> It is possible to win almost every game of Nethack, but that requires
> extremely careful play. Players tend to find their own balance
between
> survival and carelessness -- mind tends to stray over on the careless
> side, yet I still seem to be having a lot of wins lately.

Likewise with the wins (2 in a month, as many as I've had in five
years), and I definitely tend towards carelessness in the /very/ early
game. I'll happily try almost anything unIDed until I find some way of
at least partially IDing it. I'll quaff random potions, read random
scrolls, even put my head on the block and read unIDed spellbooks
without even knowing their BUC status. This results in a fair few dead
chars, but also in a few who get an edge early game. And if they die,
hey, I've only been playing for less than an hour, no major loss.

Once I /do/ find a way of starting to ID things, be it a early altar,
shop, ID scrolls, unihorn, etc... /That's/ when I start being a little
more cautious.
 
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On Wed, 2 Mar 2005, Cyde Weys wrote:

[Subject line: "Killed by a fall onto poisoned spikes ..."]

> I seem to be able to prevent most deaths but this one always gets me.

Yes. That and poisoned projectiles.

> Eating monsters that grant poison resistance before acquiring a unicorn
> horn is a bad idea because you frequently end up getting poisoned.

Before killing a unicorn, you might come across cave spiders, puddings,
oozes, shriekers, naga hatchlings or centipedes, all of which (among
others) grant poison resistance without being poisonous.

If you play an Arc, you can tin poisonous, poison resistance conferring
corpses. Tinning removes the poisoning but you can still get the
instrinsic.

(Bar, Hea and Orc start with poison resistance and Mon get it early.)

> Should
> I stay on the first five levels of the dungeon until I acquire poison
> resistance? Or should I proceed to level 6, but very carefully, and being
> sure to search multiple times on each square to make sure I'm not running
> into a poison spike trap?

If you do that, you can bet on an orc with poisoned arrows to get you. As
I see it, these deaths are essentially unavoidable; we have to live
("die", really) with them.

--
Philipp Lucas
phlucas@online-club.de
 

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In article <Xns960D11F2A1FF2galopagosterrapincy@128.8.10.18>,
Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:

>sure to search multiple times on each square to make sure I'm not running
>into a poison spike trap?

I might be superstitious, but my Elves seem to be pretty good at
detecting traps. But I do tend to search a lot in the early game also.


Once you have a path, stick to it. Step where monsters step, or where your
pet steps.
 
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Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Martin Read wrote:
>
> > Fountain wishes are accidental; there are other good reasons to
quaff
> > from fountains.
>
> Agreed. Still, my opinion on fountains is that there are good reasons
> *not* to quaff from them. :)
>
> But let's not start that discussion again, shall we?

Oh, please, let's do. I've not read r.g.r.n. except very occasionally
in quite a long time, and I had to laugh that the first thread I looked
at on returning was within a hairsbreadth of revisiting _that_ debate.

While we're at it, can we compare the merits of tiles vs ASCII, dispute
which news client is the best, and rehash the basic rules of Usenet?

--
Keiran (I'm not quite dead... just insanely busy)
 
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Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> writes:

> I seem to be able to prevent most deaths but this one always gets me.
> Eating monsters that grant poison resistance before acquiring a unicorn
> horn is a bad idea because you frequently end up getting poisoned.

Theoretically, you could settle down on the first boulder you can
move forth and back, wait for poisonous monsters, eat, push boulder
around for re-gaining str, goto 10. Usually, however, one tries
to eat cave spiders, puddings, molds, jellies, centipedes, Black,
Red, Guardian or Golden Naga (hatchling)s, oozes, blobs or shriekers.
All those[1] (except mature Guardian Naga, IIRC) confer poison resistance
while itself being non-poisonous. When more desperately, one can
switch to eat poisonous corpses; queen bees are best (chance of 60%),
then come scorpions, then cobras, pit vipers and killer bees. If
one does not mind the hallucination, violet fungi are also a good
source.

Best,
Jakob

[1] For the jellies, molds and blobs I'm never sure which kind
confers exactly what, but it's in a spoiler on Eva's page.
 
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Cyde Weys wrote:

> I seem to be able to prevent most deaths but this one always gets
> me. Eating monsters that grant poison resistance before acquiring a
> unicorn horn is a bad idea because you frequently end up getting
> poisoned.

Even with a unicorn horn, it's still a bad idea, since the eating
something poisonous may always kill you (straight away or by HP loss).
The unicorn horn is a good backup in case you survive but lost some
strenght points, though.

> Should I stay on the first five levels of the dungeon
> until I acquire poison resistance? Or should I proceed to level 6,
> but very carefully, and being sure to search multiple times on each
> square to make sure I'm not running into a poison spike trap?

You could do the latter, but I wouldn't think of it. It would ruin my
enjoyment of the game. I'd rather risk the loss of a character once in a
while.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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John H. wrote:

> I don't even do things like price-ID items in shops, other than magic
> lamps and scrolls of identify. That first magic lamp is often enough
> to mean an ascension in the end -- when I finally start trying to
> play conducts, wishless is going to be tricky for me.

I don't even price-ID magic lamps. I just carry and use every lamp I
find until it runs out. If it doesn't, it's magic.

And I never use my first magic lamps for wishes anyway. A second could
be used for it (although I always try wishlessness).

The only instances where I do use wishes are when I get them
"accidentally", that is, not by rubbing a lamp or zapping a known wand
of wishing or quaffing from fountains. I use them when they come from
the potion, if I quaffed the potion for its real effects, or when I got
them from a throne. Even then, I sometimes wish for "nothing".

The way I play, I don't need any wishes anyway, although in my current
game, that helm of brilliance does stay away for a long time now, and my
orcish wizard really needs it to stop casting consuming food. His INT is
now at its racial maximum of 16, which isn't enough.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
>The only instances where I do use wishes are when I get them
>"accidentally", that is, not by rubbing a lamp or zapping a known wand
>of wishing or quaffing from fountains. I use them when they come from
>the potion, if I quaffed the potion for its real effects, or when I got
>them from a throne. Even then, I sometimes wish for "nothing".

Fountain wishes are accidental; there are other good reasons to quaff
from fountains.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.html
 
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james wrote:
> In article <Xns960D11F2A1FF2galopagosterrapincy@128.8.10.18>,
> Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:

> Once you have a path, stick to it. Step where monsters step, or
> where your pet steps.

Using the _ command or the mouse to move long distance is also a good
way to always use the same path: the internal algorythm is
deterministic, so it will always pick the same route, as long as you
don't create a new shortcut.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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Martin Read wrote:

> Fountain wishes are accidental; there are other good reasons to quaff
> from fountains.

Agreed. Still, my opinion on fountains is that there are good reasons
*not* to quaff from them. :)

But let's not start that discussion again, shall we?

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

> Even with a unicorn horn, it's still a bad idea, since the eating
> something poisonous may always kill you (straight away or by HP
> loss).

Only by HP loss. Or else I've been astoundishingly lucky during the
last 10 years.
 
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Tommi Syrjanen <tommi.syrjanen@enough.spam.hut.fi> wrote in
news:7jekeyyx09.fsf@cronotopology.tcs.hut.fi:

> "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:
>
>> Even with a unicorn horn, it's still a bad idea, since the eating
>> something poisonous may always kill you (straight away or by HP
>> loss).
>
> Only by HP loss. Or else I've been astoundishingly lucky during the
> last 10 years.

Ditto here, but not for ten years. I've never outright died from eating
poisonous foods - it's the HP loss or STR loss that gets me.



--
~ Cyde Weys ~
So say we all.
 

James

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In article <7jekeyyx09.fsf@cronotopology.tcs.hut.fi>,
Tommi Syrjanen <tommi.syrjanen@enough.spam.hut.fi> wrote:

>Only by HP loss. Or else I've been astoundishingly lucky during the
>last 10 years.

Deadly Poison only comes from eating rabid rats, needle and pit traps,
and poisoned weapons.
 
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Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in
news:Xns960D11F2A1FF2galopagosterrapincy@128.8.10.18:

> I seem to be able to prevent most deaths but this one always
> gets me.
> Eating monsters that grant poison resistance before acquiring a
> unicorn horn is a bad idea because you frequently end up getting
> poisoned. Should I stay on the first five levels of the dungeon until
> I acquire poison resistance? Or should I proceed to level 6, but very
> carefully, and being sure to search multiple times on each square to
> make sure I'm not running into a poison spike trap?

Ohh yeah, and just to make it worse, I was wearing a cursed -1 oilskin
cloak, cursed +0 gloves of fumbling, and I had a cursed loadstone on me.
Bleagh.


--
~ Cyde Weys ~
So say we all.
 
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fishbowl@conservatory.com (james) wrote in news:QWmVd.1921$8k2.193
@fed1read03:

> In article <7jekeyyx09.fsf@cronotopology.tcs.hut.fi>,
> Tommi Syrjanen <tommi.syrjanen@enough.spam.hut.fi> wrote:
>
>>Only by HP loss. Or else I've been astoundishingly lucky during the
>>last 10 years.
>
> Deadly Poison only comes from eating rabid rats, needle and pit traps,
> and poisoned weapons.

Even in my early days when I was eating stupid things, I was never quite
dumb enough to eat a RABID rat :)

I think it would be cooler if eating a rabid rat gave you rabies. Instead
of dying immediately you'd get a slow wasting disease ... gradually you'd
lose intelligence and control over your actions and eventually you'd lose
total control over your character where he just sort of runs around in a
blind rage, and then dies.

To keep game balance somewhat, rabies wouldn't be curable ... it'd
essentially give you a 500 turn timer (or whatever) in which time you'd
have left to Ascend, or else you'd die from it.


--
~ Cyde Weys ~
So say we all.
 
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fishbowl@conservatory.com (james) writes:

> In article <7jekeyyx09.fsf@cronotopology.tcs.hut.fi>,
> Tommi Syrjanen <tommi.syrjanen@enough.spam.hut.fi> wrote:
>
> >Only by HP loss. Or else I've been astoundishingly lucky during the
> >last 10 years.
>
> Deadly Poison only comes from eating rabid rats, needle and pit traps,
> and poisoned weapons.

Not from *eating* rabid rats, only from their poisonous bite attack.
Various other monsters also have poison attacks which can be deadly.
Eva.

--
Eva Myers, Computer Officer, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge
Email: erm1001@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/
Ignorance and deception can't save anybody. *Knowing* saves them.
 
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Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> writes:

> Ohh yeah, and just to make it worse, I was wearing a cursed -1 oilskin
> cloak, cursed +0 gloves of fumbling, and I had a cursed loadstone on me.
> Bleagh.

All those problems could have been avoided by using your pet to
curse-test the items. If it was dead, that accounts for the cursed
cloak, but I wouldn't wear unidentified gloves or boots without
pet-testing them because of the risk of fumbling. To avoid cursed
loadstones, kick gray stones before picking them up.
Eva.

--
Eva Myers, Computer Officer, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge
Email: erm1001@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/
Ignorance and deception can't save anybody. *Knowing* saves them.
 
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Eva Myers <erm1001@cam.ac.uk> wrote in
news:4tbra1vlax.fsf@chiark.greenend.org.uk:

> Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> writes:
>
>> Ohh yeah, and just to make it worse, I was wearing a cursed -1
>> oilskin cloak, cursed +0 gloves of fumbling, and I had a cursed
>> loadstone on me. Bleagh.
>
> All those problems could have been avoided by using your pet to
> curse-test the items. If it was dead, that accounts for the cursed
> cloak, but I wouldn't wear unidentified gloves or boots without
> pet-testing them because of the risk of fumbling. To avoid cursed
> loadstones, kick gray stones before picking them up.
> Eva.

Ahhh, how does that work? Other gray stones will move, but loadstones,
because of their weight, won't?


--
~ Cyde Weys ~
So say we all.
 
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furyqba@yahoo.com wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>>
>>But let's not start that discussion again, shall we?
>
> Oh, please, let's do. I've not read r.g.r.n. except very occasionally
> in quite a long time, and I had to laugh that the first thread I looked
> at on returning was within a hairsbreadth of revisiting _that_ debate.
>
> While we're at it, can we compare the merits of tiles vs ASCII, dispute
> which news client is the best, and rehash the basic rules of Usenet?

Your very last point would indeed be worth to be recalled. But since it seems
to be always the same unregenerate people, I conclude setting filters is more
effective.

Janis
 
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Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Cyde Weys wrote:
>
>>Should I stay on the first five levels of the dungeon
>>until I acquire poison resistance? Or should I proceed to level 6,
>>but very carefully, and being sure to search multiple times on each
>>square to make sure I'm not running into a poison spike trap?
>
> You could do the latter, but I wouldn't think of it. It would ruin my
> enjoyment of the game. I'd rather risk the loss of a character once in a
> while.

I would certainly not search steadily since it significantly increases the
chance that you will get hungry faster than would be good to you. (And you
may need your prayer for other critical situations.)

Janis
 
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Cyde Weys wrote:
> Eva Myers <erm1001@cam.ac.uk> wrote in
> news:4tbra1vlax.fsf@chiark.greenend.org.uk:
>
>>To avoid cursed
>>loadstones, kick gray stones before picking them up.
>
> Ahhh, how does that work? Other gray stones will move, but loadstones,
> because of their weight, won't?

Yes, exactly. But consider that extraordinary strength might influence the
observable behaviour.

Janis
 
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Cyde Weys wrote:
> fishbowl@conservatory.com (james) wrote in news:QWmVd.1921$8k2.193
> @fed1read03:
>
> I think it would be cooler if eating a rabid rat gave you rabies. Instead
> of dying immediately you'd get a slow wasting disease ... gradually you'd
> lose intelligence and control over your actions and eventually you'd lose
> total control over your character where he just sort of runs around in a
> blind rage

And this would be different to my normal character behaviour because?


Atillo, killed by running around the Astral Plan in a blind rage