Killed while dipping in a fountain...

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....by 3 Water Demons and 1 Major Demon in one round.
They spawned in 1 turn while I was dipping a see invisible potion to
make clear water.This was at dungeon level 6,me being merely level 8.
Even my 2 pets (Djinni and Large Cat) didnt help.
Thats very frustrating,after clearing the mines completly,playing most
carefully this time to avoid YASD.
Whats more frustrating is ,that the FAQS dont mention this,they
mention "a" Water Demon,some minor snkaes,and some other
small annoyances my character would be able to handle easyly.

Meldur
 
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In article <iq6g51tu1s2016hdmpqafhc9ltg8or67me@4ax.com>,
Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>...by 3 Water Demons and 1 Major Demon in one round.


Ouch!!!


>They spawned in 1 turn while I was dipping a see invisible potion to
>make clear water.This was at dungeon level 6,me being merely level 8.


That made you toast!


>Even my 2 pets (Djinni and Large Cat) didnt help.


There wasn't enough time.


>Thats very frustrating,after clearing the mines completly,playing most
>carefully this time to avoid YASD.


The RNG didn't like you too very much.


>Whats more frustrating is ,that the FAQS dont mention this,they
>mention "a" Water Demon,some minor snkaes,and some other
>small annoyances my character would be able to handle easyly.


I have a solution...

DON'T DIP IN FOUNTAINS!!!!

As you can see it's not worth it. You've been to the mines. That means you have
a pick-axe or a broad pick. Take your fountains and dig into them with the
tool. Many times they'll burst into a series of pools you can jump into with
the stuff you want to dilute.

There are only three things you need to be careful about:

1) Make sure there are no pets in the room. Oftentimes they'll drown when the
water springs forth.

2) Make sure that you take off all metal items before jumping in unless they
are rustproof. Rusty items are not as effective (except for rings/wands)

3) Make sure you are not burdended. Too heavy a pack may keep you from
coming out of the water.

It's the only way I dip now. Why bother with the chance of being ambushed,
or having stuff cursed.

BAJ
 
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Meldur wrote:
> ...by 3 Water Demons and 1 Major Demon in one round.
> They spawned in 1 turn while I was dipping a see invisible potion to
> make clear water....

> Meldur

Was your character burdened? Stressed? Worse? Even burdened will
give monsters significantly more moves than you.

I think luck (as in, game luck, influenced by luckstones and
sacrificing and such) plays a role in demon summoning results, that
might also explain some of it. The demon-summoning skill of water
demons make them the most dangerous water result (besides things like
"This water's no good!" cursing your bag of holding). Which major
demon was it, by the way? I'm assuming you mean something like a
horned devil, and not one of the big names?

I agree that, typically, dipping in fountains is worth the risks in the
early game to get water if you can handle most of the results, as holy
water can be a potent aid in the early game (especially if you've found
a magic lamp in minetown), but things like this do happen
occaisionally. I would have used my first turn to try to teleport the
hell away from them, if I had the means.

- John H.
 
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Meldur wrote:

> ...by 3 Water Demons and 1 Major Demon in one round.

A demon can summon others.

> Thats very frustrating,after clearing the mines completly,playing most
> carefully this time to avoid YASD.

Almost everyone in this newsgroup will tell you to *leave* *fountains*
*alone*. The risk is not worth the possible gains, unless you're one of
the few that will risk a starting, low-level character.

> Whats more frustrating is ,that the FAQS dont mention this,they
> mention "a" Water Demon,some minor snkaes,and some other
> small annoyances my character would be able to handle easyly.

As mentioned above, demons may summon others. You were just unlucky that
it happened immediately, and twice.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 01:31:40 +0200, "Boudewijn Waijers"
<kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

>Meldur wrote:
>
>> ...by 3 Water Demons and 1 Major Demon in one round.
>
>A demon can summon others.

All 4 Beasties appeared in 1 round,mobs can summon in 1 round ?

>> Thats very frustrating,after clearing the mines completly,playing most
>> carefully this time to avoid YASD.
>
>Almost everyone in this newsgroup will tell you to *leave* *fountains*
>*alone*. The risk is not worth the possible gains, unless you're one of
>the few that will risk a starting, low-level character.

True,but I was dipping not quaffing,maybe I should have a closer look
at the FAQs,I was under the impression dipping is much less risky.
Dipped a lot of long swords in Fountains with my Valkyries at level 5
for Excalibur,sure I died a lot...but never from 3 Water Demons and 1
Major Demon.
And the Priest was only level 8 too.
And I wasnt aware ,that I was taking a risk,guarded by a Djinni and a
large cat,which would have been capable of soloing all the bad
outcomes I experienced with the Valkyries before.

Talking about low-level characters,this character was low in xp
levels,but not in equipment,BoH,SoR,Invis and Levitation rings,
nearly all spells up to level 3,enchanted mace and armour,AC of -8,
etc.

Well,the point is this took 2 days,and then I died totally unexpected,
on level 6.Being a Newbie who has never seen a level below 12,I was
sure I will die again when entering new,unknown areas.

>
>> Whats more frustrating is ,that the FAQS dont mention this,they
>> mention "a" Water Demon,some minor snkaes,and some other
>> small annoyances my character would be able to handle easyly.
>
>As mentioned above, demons may summon others. You were just unlucky that
>it happened immediately, and twice.

I repeat a "Major Demon" occured ,me being level 8 on DL 6.
 
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Meldur wrote on Sun, 10 Apr 2005 04:02:49 +0200:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 01:31:40 +0200, "Boudewijn Waijers"
> <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
>
> >Meldur wrote:
> >
> >> ...by 3 Water Demons and 1 Major Demon in one round.
> >
> >A demon can summon others.
>
> All 4 Beasties appeared in 1 round,mobs can summon in 1 round ?

I suggest that you were burdened or worse.

--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
 
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On 9 Apr 2005 14:48:14 -0400, byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
wrote:

>In article <iq6g51tu1s2016hdmpqafhc9ltg8or67me@4ax.com>,
>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>>...by 3 Water Demons and 1 Major Demon in one round.
>
>
>Ouch!!!

Thanks for your sympathy !

Meldur
 
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On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:51:44 -0400, Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Meldur wrote on Sun, 10 Apr 2005 04:02:49 +0200:
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 01:31:40 +0200, "Boudewijn Waijers"
>> <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
>>
>> >Meldur wrote:
>> >
>> >> ...by 3 Water Demons and 1 Major Demon in one round.
>> >
>> >A demon can summon others.
>>
>> All 4 Beasties appeared in 1 round,mobs can summon in 1 round ?
>
>I suggest that you were burdened or worse.

Maybe burdened,though I had a blessed Bag of Holding,maybe
burdened because I was going to make more Holy Water and
had a lot of junk potions in my main inventory to turn into water,
after all this was the reason I was at the fountain. :)

Meldur
 
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On 9 Apr 2005 19:35:11 -0700, "John H." <JohnWH@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Meldur wrote:
>> ...by 3 Water Demons and 1 Major Demon in one round.
>> They spawned in 1 turn while I was dipping a see invisible potion to
>> make clear water....
>
>> Meldur
>
>Was your character burdened? Stressed? Worse? Even burdened will
>give monsters significantly more moves than you.

See my response to Rast,but I was not stressed or worse.

>
>I think luck (as in, game luck, influenced by luckstones and
>sacrificing and such) plays a role in demon summoning results, that
>might also explain some of it. The demon-summoning skill of water
>demons make them the most dangerous water result (besides things like
>"This water's no good!" cursing your bag of holding). Which major
>demon was it, by the way? I'm assuming you mean something like a
>horned devil, and not one of the big names?

Message output was "a Major Demon" then a name starting with a Y...
only one on which fits this description is...Yeenoghu!?
Keep in mind that was in DL6,me being level 8.
>
>I agree that, typically, dipping in fountains is worth the risks in the
>early game to get water if you can handle most of the results, as holy
>water can be a potent aid in the early game (especially if you've found
>a magic lamp in minetown), but things like this do happen
>occaisionally. I would have used my first turn to try to teleport the
>hell away from them, if I had the means.
>

My big weakness,had tons of stuff,Bag of Holding,Shield of reflection,
ESP amulet,Gauntlets of Power,even some polymorph potions and
a ring of polymorph control,was looking forward to toy around with
polymorph for the 1st time after making some more Holy Water,but
no means of teleporting.

Oh,and I do *not* hope to get a wish from a magic lamp anymore,I liked
it how my Djinni took care of all the shop owners. :)

Meldur
 
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Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> Message output was "a Major Demon" then a name starting with a Y...
> only one on which fits this description is...Yeenoghu!?
> Keep in mind that was in DL6,me being level 8.

I lost a rather promising Valk last night, to Yeenoghu (bones file -- an
earlier game I'd accidentally summoned him (peacefully followed me
around until I *finally* managed to lose him in the mines, then I
snuffed it on that level coming back up from Mines End). I came down
the stairs, ended up *off* the stairs, he nailed me before I could
scarper.

It's now a double bones, with Exc, BOH, +6 Mjollnir... and Yeenoghu. I
think I might avoid Mines End for a while.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "English is not a language. English is a
keith.davies@kjdavies.org bad habit shared between Norman invaders
keith.davies@gmail.com and Saxon barmaids!"
http://www.kjdavies.org/ -- Frog, IRC, 2005/01/13
 
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On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:05:54 GMT, Keith Davies
<keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:

>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>> Message output was "a Major Demon" then a name starting with a Y...
>> only one on which fits this description is...Yeenoghu!?
>> Keep in mind that was in DL6,me being level 8.
>
>I lost a rather promising Valk last night, to Yeenoghu (bones file -- an
>earlier game I'd accidentally summoned him (peacefully followed me
>around until I *finally* managed to lose him in the mines, then I
>snuffed it on that level coming back up from Mines End). I came down
>the stairs, ended up *off* the stairs, he nailed me before I could
>scarper.
>
>It's now a double bones, with Exc, BOH, +6 Mjollnir... and Yeenoghu. I
>think I might avoid Mines End for a while.
>
>
>Keith

I am a "Newbie"...to NH...,so no old bone files from deeper levels
available,deepest ever was a *very* short glance in to level 12. :)

Meldur
 
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Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:05:54 GMT, Keith Davies
><keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>
>>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> Message output was "a Major Demon" then a name starting with a Y...
>>> only one on which fits this description is...Yeenoghu!?
>>> Keep in mind that was in DL6,me being level 8.
>>
>>I lost a rather promising Valk last night, to Yeenoghu (bones file -- an
>>earlier game I'd accidentally summoned him (peacefully followed me
>>around until I *finally* managed to lose him in the mines, then I
>>snuffed it on that level coming back up from Mines End). I came down
>>the stairs, ended up *off* the stairs, he nailed me before I could
>>scarper.
>>
>>It's now a double bones, with Exc, BOH, +6 Mjollnir... and Yeenoghu. I
>>think I might avoid Mines End for a while.
>
> I am a "Newbie"...to NH...,so no old bone files from deeper levels
> available,deepest ever was a *very* short glance in to level 12. :)

I've been down there, but not much farther. I can reliably get to
Minetown or Sokoban; I generally do those first, then decide whether to
clear MinesEnd. I usually YASD somewhere around here, though, mostly
for fatigue reasons (outright oops).


Keith
--
Keith Davies "English is not a language. English is a
keith.davies@kjdavies.org bad habit shared between Norman invaders
keith.davies@gmail.com and Saxon barmaids!"
http://www.kjdavies.org/ -- Frog, IRC, 2005/01/13
 
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 02:17:49 GMT, Keith Davies
<keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:

>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:05:54 GMT, Keith Davies
>><keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Message output was "a Major Demon" then a name starting with a Y...
>>>> only one on which fits this description is...Yeenoghu!?
>>>> Keep in mind that was in DL6,me being level 8.
>>>
>>>I lost a rather promising Valk last night, to Yeenoghu (bones file -- an
>>>earlier game I'd accidentally summoned him (peacefully followed me
>>>around until I *finally* managed to lose him in the mines, then I
>>>snuffed it on that level coming back up from Mines End). I came down
>>>the stairs, ended up *off* the stairs, he nailed me before I could
>>>scarper.
>>>
>>>It's now a double bones, with Exc, BOH, +6 Mjollnir... and Yeenoghu. I
>>>think I might avoid Mines End for a while.
>>
>> I am a "Newbie"...to NH...,so no old bone files from deeper levels
>> available,deepest ever was a *very* short glance in to level 12. :)
>
>I've been down there, but not much farther. I can reliably get to
>Minetown or Sokoban; I generally do those first, then decide whether to
>clear MinesEnd. I usually YASD somewhere around here, though, mostly
>for fatigue reasons (outright oops).
>

Same here,with some patience I usually manage to finish Sokoban or
Mines,rarely both,before I make a stupid mistake or the rng thinks its
time to punish me with a leracrotta (sp?) or such.
I have a nice bone file with a baby black dragon (from a polymorph
trap?)in the mines which haunts me. :)
Last game a Gnomish Wizard in Minetown killed my Large Dog with a
Wand of Striking,my Priest being level 3,didnt wait for the end and
quit without saving. :)

So,how did you summon Yennoghu accidentally?With the create
monster spell ?Is the outcome of the spell totally random ?

Meldur
 
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Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> Same here,with some patience I usually manage to finish Sokoban or
> Mines,rarely both,before I make a stupid mistake or the rng thinks its
> time to punish me with a leracrotta (sp?) or such.

Leucrotta aren't so tough, if you find them at an appropriate time.

> I have a nice bone file with a baby black dragon (from a polymorph
> trap?)in the mines which haunts me. :)

Haven't run into dragons yet. Winter wolf cubs, but not dragons.

> Last game a Gnomish Wizard in Minetown killed my Large Dog with a
> Wand of Striking,my Priest being level 3,didnt wait for the end and
> quit without saving. :)

heh, I've lost pets in the first room and carried on to a decent game.

> So,how did you summon Yennoghu accidentally?With the create
> monster spell ?Is the outcome of the spell totally random ?

If you #offer your own type up (like an orc saccing a goblin -- fastest
and easiest way to convert an altar I've found, if chaotic) there's a
chance a demon will be summoned. If you're chaotic there's a good
chance he'll be peaceful, but follow you around. He doesn't fight
anything, and *don't* attack him (put Stormy away) or he'll kick your
ass, but he gets in the way.


.... and I just lost a rather promising wizard tonight (95,944 points) --
started with +oID, early (DL5) throne got him blessed +3 SDSM, object
detection potions were smoky (open season on nymphs, *yeah*!)... I went
down a hole, was making my way back up, found myself in a throne room
with Olog-hai. I didn't see anything there I couldn't take, I had lots
of mana (164 points, at Exp12, but no area spells, sadly), MagicBane,
-14 AC.

If I'd come to the room at the *door* I would've been fine. I thought I
could even stand and fight for a while (which was true -- between AC and
hit points I could stand several rounds between healing), but didn't
take into account just how *hard* those guys hit. Having a troll on
each side is not fun. And I accidentally stepped off the stairs; I
managed to fight my way back to them just as I got snuffed.

At least there are bones.

So, on DL12 there is a throne room with a couple of bigass trolls (those
looked to be the worst of it), and the corpse of an elven wizard with +3
cloak of MR, +3 SDSM, 3 ?oObjDet (smoky still, I hope, but doubt),
6847Au, and a bunch of (honest!) gems. I was on my way back to Minetown
to buy more protection.

/me is not impressed.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vaccuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
 
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:33:31 GMT, Keith Davies
<keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:

>Meldur <Meldur@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>> Same here,with some patience I usually manage to finish Sokoban or
>> Mines,rarely both,before I make a stupid mistake or the rng thinks its
>> time to punish me with a leracrotta (sp?) or such.
>
>Leucrotta aren't so tough, if you find them at an appropriate time.

They reduce my hitpoints amazingly fast,I really should get rid of the
habit to run around burdened,still learning,wasnt aware for example
not long ago that I can leave Spellbooks "at home",3 spellbooks weigh
as much as a Dwarvish Mithril Coat!

>> I have a nice bone file with a baby black dragon (from a polymorph
>> trap?)in the mines which haunts me. :)
>Haven't run into dragons yet. Winter wolf cubs, but not dragons.

*Baby* Black Dragon. :)
Managed to tame it one time,cause I was lucky and I had a scroll,
sadly I lost it very fast due to a teleporter trap and the game short
after.

>> Last game a Gnomish Wizard in Minetown killed my Large Dog with a
>> Wand of Striking,my Priest being level 3,didnt wait for the end and
>> quit without saving. :)
>
>heh, I've lost pets in the first room and carried on to a decent game.

I started to learn NH with Valkyries ,always ditched the pets in level
1,last 2 weeks I only played Priest or Healer,pet is a must as I see
it.
At the moment I am playing a level *2* (gnomish) Priest with 2 cats 3
levels below Minetown,with leashes they are not annoying anymore,no
more nervously waiting for pets while watching wheather the hungry
message appears.
Pet behaviour is strange(or shall I say buggy?),they attack the
Watchmen in Minetown,who dont help each other,I can heal the pet
while it fights them without getting aggro.
They attack the Dwarves and Gnomes,which are peaceful to my Gnomish
Healer,in the other mine levels too,makes a nice safe source of income
to pay the priest for protection. :)

>> So,how did you summon Yennoghu accidentally?With the create
>> monster spell ?Is the outcome of the spell totally random ?
>
>If you #offer your own type up (like an orc saccing a goblin -- fastest
>and easiest way to convert an altar I've found, if chaotic) there's a
>chance a demon will be summoned. If you're chaotic there's a good
>chance he'll be peaceful, but follow you around. He doesn't fight
>anything, and *don't* attack him (put Stormy away) or he'll kick your
>ass, but he gets in the way.

I see,never played chaotic aligned chars so far,my few experiments
with altar converting didnt go too well,not that i rely on praying,
so I dont care much about alignment and sacrifice until I run out of
valuable enough corpses.
I guess ,I will regret this later. :)

>... and I just lost a rather promising wizard tonight (95,944 points) --
>started with +oID, early (DL5) throne got him blessed +3 SDSM, object
>detection potions were smoky (open season on nymphs, *yeah*!)... I went
>down a hole, was making my way back up, found myself in a
>with Olog-hai. I didn't see anything there I couldn't take, I had lots
>of mana (164 points, at Exp12, but no area spells, sadly), MagicBane,
>-14 AC.
>
>If I'd come to the room at the *door* I would've been fine. I thought I
>could even stand and fight for a while (which was true -- between AC and
>hit points I could stand several rounds between healing), but didn't
>take into account just how *hard* those guys hit. Having a troll on
>each side is not fun. And I accidentally stepped off the stairs; I
>managed to fight my way back to them just as I got snuffed.
>
>At least there are bones.
>
>So, on DL12 there is a throne room with a couple of bigass trolls (those
>looked to be the worst of it), and the corpse of an elven wizard with +3
>cloak of MR, +3 SDSM, 3 ?oObjDet (smoky still, I hope, but doubt),
>6847Au, and a bunch of (honest!) gems. I was on my way back to Minetown
>to buy more protection.

In the current game I managed for the 1st time to buy protection from
the Priest in Minetown,either my level was too high and I didnt have
enough money or I died long before reaching the town.
This time all went nearly perfect,no annoying traps or Baby Black
Dragons on the way. :)
Of course it helped that I started as a Healer with 1.7k "Zorkmids".
Made him level 2,because I couldnt heal my pets as a level 1 char,
not enough mana for one spell.
Payed the Priest 3 times,which gave me 6 inherent AC,so my AC
is now -9 (with armour,nothing special)on a level 2 character.
Not so sure,if it makes already a noticable difference,enemies are
mostly beating on my pets,its pretty rare that I get hit,and still
being level 2 makes sure that I get not that frigthening mobs,most
dangerous I saw so far 3 levels below Minetown are some Mordor
Orc groups.

Meldur