Question Lagging Problems

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Davor Vidojkovic

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Jun 28, 2014
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Feel free to move this thread if it's not in the right section, and my apologies.
I am having problems with lag most likely because of the hard drive. I've changed it so far 4 times, the first one I had was 1TB, then the others were 500GB. Could the motherboard be causing the hard disk's failure/problems? I can on a regular see high hard disk usage. Thanks for your assistance in advance!

PC components:
8gb ram
intel i3-2100 3.10ghz
amd radeon hd 6450
ms-7788 motherboard
codegen 400w power supply atx 2.03(p4)

software:
windows 10
2 games
very few applications
latest directx
latest drivers(maybe 1 update behind)
 
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Davor Vidojkovic

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Grobe said:
Can you be more specific about the harddrives? How are they connected - which hdd on which sata port?

Have you tried to read SMART values of the harddrives (crystaldisk can do this).
Click to expand...
I have no idea on which sata port my current hdd is connected on. Also, no I have not tried reading SMART values and frankly I don't know how.
 
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Grobe

Grobe

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But you write this:
I've changed it so far 4 times, the first one I had was 1TB, then the others were 500GB
Can you elaborate what you actually means? You don't mention how many disks.

For reading SMART values: Read here:

S.M.A.R.T. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
.

And the program that may be useful to read out smart values
crystalmark.info

CrystalDiskInfo

About CrystalDiskInfo A HDD/SSD utility software which supports a part of USB, Intel RAID and NVMe. Aoi Edition Standard Edition Shizuku Edition Kurei Kei Edition Download System Requirements OS Windows XP/Vista/7/8/8.1/10/11Windows Server 2003/2008/2012/2016/2019/2022 Architecture x86/x64/ARM64...
crystalmark.info

Now - after installing crystaldiskinfo, you can post the values back here, and I may be able to see if one of your disks are about to go bad. Remember to include for all drives, not just one.
 
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Davor Vidojkovic

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Jun 28, 2014
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Grobe said:
But you write this:
I've changed it so far 4 times, the first one I had was 1TB, then the others were 500GB
Can you elaborate what you actually means? You don't mention how many disks.

For reading SMART values: Read here:

S.M.A.R.T. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
.

And the program that may be useful to read out smart values
crystalmark.info

CrystalDiskInfo

About CrystalDiskInfo A HDD/SSD utility software which supports a part of USB, Intel RAID and NVMe. Aoi Edition Standard Edition Shizuku Edition Kurei Kei Edition Download System Requirements OS Windows XP/Vista/7/8/8.1/10/11Windows Server 2003/2008/2012/2016/2019/2022 Architecture x86/x64/ARM64...
crystalmark.info

Now - after installing crystaldiskinfo, you can post the values back here, and I may be able to see if one of your disks are about to go bad. Remember to include for all drives, not just one.
Click to expand...
I have never had more than 1 hdd at a time. The first hdd I had came along with my computer and was 1TB. Then after around 4 years I ran into the recovery loop and gave to my father's friend who repairs computer. The hdd was swapped with a 500GB one, because apparently it was somehow broken and my gtx 550 ti was swapped with this amd radeon hd 6450 that I have right now. Then the guy swapped the hard drive, and then one last time I think.

Not sure if you asked for these values, but here you go.
https://imgur.com/a/dxPAKLl
View: https://imgur.com/a/dxPAKLl
https://imgur.com/a/s0AsP5V
View: https://imgur.com/a/s0AsP5V



NOTE: I've had this computer since 2012 and it was a great gaming PC for then, but now it has turned into trash.

Something I forgot to mention, my hdd frequently fails and I can hear it turning back on, but it keeps on failing and failing until I plug out the sata cable that is connected to the hdd. I'm not sure if it is the hdd that is the problem or something else that breaks the hdd, maybe the power supply, maybe the motherboard? I'm not sure.
 
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popatim

popatim

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4 HDD's in a short time frame would have me replacing the PSU.

Another source is if you maybe have brownouts or blackouts. Dropping power to a running hard drive can kill it. In that case a UPS would be a good purchase and give you time to cleanly shut down the PC.
 
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Davor Vidojkovic

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popatim said:
4 HDD's in a short time frame would have me replacing the PSU.

Another source is if you maybe have brownouts or blackouts. Dropping power to a running hard drive can kill it. In that case a UPS would be a good purchase and give you time to cleanly shut down the PC.
Click to expand...
I rarely have brownouts and blackouts, so I'm guessing my hdd's faulty is because of the power supply? I found one on a technology company from my country and this is the one https://www.anhoch.com/product/4157...lus-bronze-real-power-modular-silent-14cm-fan
I have no idea how good it is, and I don't know what separates a good from a bad PSU. Feel free to recommend me a PSU as well.
BTW, my recommended PSU wattage is 438. I guess I can use one that is around 500W?
EDIT: Found more and I need your opinion.
https://www.anhoch.com/product/599865653/psu-450w-deepcool-dn450-new-version-80plus-black
https://www.anhoch.com/product/13346/psu-500w-coolermaster-elite-rs-500psap-j3pfc12cm-fan
https://www.anhoch.com/product/42725/psu-500w-gembird-80plus-black-box-power
 
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Grobe

Grobe

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You did not ansered my question. That is not S.M.A.R.T. data, just a general benchmark.

Look here - this is what it should look like:

S.M.A.R.T. Information

About S.M.A.R.T. Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology (Wikipedia). S.M.A.R.T. Atttribute Item Description ID The ID of attribute hexadecimal Attribute Name The name of attribute Current Current attribute value decimal Worst Worst attribute value decimal Threshold The critical...
crystalmark.info
 
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Davor Vidojkovic

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Grobe said:
You did not ansered my question. That is not S.M.A.R.T. data, just a general benchmark.

Look here - this is what it should look like:

S.M.A.R.T. Information

About S.M.A.R.T. Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology (Wikipedia). S.M.A.R.T. Atttribute Item Description ID The ID of attribute hexadecimal Attribute Name The name of attribute Current Current attribute value decimal Worst Worst attribute value decimal Threshold The critical...
crystalmark.info
Click to expand...
Here is the thing I should have sent you before xd
https://imgur.com/XGMs9P9
View: https://i.imgur.com/XGMs9P9.png
 
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Davor Vidojkovic

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Grobe said:
Well - the yellow emblems indicates that the drive may start suffer of aging.

One more thing I want to know - do you happens to move the computer (carrying it around or just repositiong it) while running?
Click to expand...
Just a small touch, maybe like a 1cm push to the left or to the right. I don't think that could be the cause of my hdd's malfunctioning. I doubt it's suffering of aging, since I've only had it for about a year maybe? But then again, my father's friend could've swapped my first hdd with an old functioning one and kept doing that when he'd replace my other hdds.
 
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mdd1963

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get a Corsair MX500 SSD, and be done with it? :) (perhaps a new $4 SATA data cable as well just to rule out any potential intermittent 'cable voodoo')

If you do go for a new PSU, do not use any of the existing modular cables from the old PSU, use all new cables provided with new PSU....(failure to heed this can quickly burn out every drive in your system at the first power on)
 
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Davor Vidojkovic

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mdd1963 said:
get a Corsair MX500 SSD, and be done with it? :) (perhaps a new $4 SATA data cable as well just to rule out any potential intermittent 'cable voodoo')

If you do go for a new PSU, do not use any of the existing modular cables from the old PSU, use all new cables provided with new PSU....(failure to heed this can quickly burn out every drive in your system at the first power on)
Click to expand...
Because SSD's arent that cheap xd, and even if I get an SSD and my PSU is messed up it'll end up breaking the SSD just like the other HDDs it broke.

{edited by mod for language}
 
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Grobe

Grobe

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Do you happens to live in an area that frequently experiences power outages ?
That is bad for the drives.

What is the use of your computer? The run time of ~8k hours isn't that much, maybe a couple of years? Do you host files (torrent or similar types of services), mining crypto currency or similar that makes exessive use of the drive?

You move the computer case while it is running? Then it is bad for the drive because:
Risc factor 1: The gap between the harddrive head and the disk surface is just a few atoms wide, because the drive is filled with a gas and it is the velocity of the gas against head that make the head not scratching the disk surface.Very very close it is.
Risc factor 2 : As the drive spins about 7200 RPM, the platters itself gains a considerable amount of inertia.
A very rough estimat gives that the outer end of the platters gains a relatively velocity about 135 km/h (~84 miles/h).

Now put these two risc factors together - and there is almost ubelievable that it is possible. Like being able to navigate a low altitude aircraft - at near speed of light.

I have considered bad PSU too. Thing is - I have also had some computers in the past suffered from bad PSU, and I have never experienced cases where it "eats" harddrives. In my cases, the failures have always showed up in other forms - like system freeze, acting like bad ram, etc etc.
That said - I'm not a living database of hardware errors, your mobo/ram may be more sturdy against bad PSU and harddrives being more fragile ; I cannot exclude that either.

Also I consider bad SATA cable or connector.
Then I would expect the "UltraDMA CRC Error Count" to be something else than zero. That is why I beleive your cables is just fine.
However, if the power cables is loose / bad connection - is another ting. And I don't know how normal drives reacts when power cables is poorly connected.

Therefore - if the issue is also present for SSD devices, then I'll consider replacing the internal power cables and also the PSU.

For PSU recommendation - see this thread:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answe...ce=forum_email&utm_campaign=EPR-8809#21552776
 
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Davor Vidojkovic

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Grobe said:
Do you happens to live in an area that frequently experiences power outages ?
That is bad for the drives.

What is the use of your computer? The run time of ~8k hours isn't that much, maybe a couple of years? Do you host files (torrent or similar types of services), mining crypto currency or similar that makes exessive use of the drive?

You move the computer case while it is running? Then it is bad for the drive because:
Risc factor 1: The gap between the harddrive head and the disk surface is just a few atoms wide, because the drive is filled with a gas and it is the velocity of the gas against head that make the head not scratching the disk surface.Very very close it is.
Risc factor 2 : As the drive spins about 7200 RPM, the platters itself gains a considerable amount of inertia.
A very rough estimat gives that the outer end of the platters gains a relatively velocity about 135 km/h (~84 miles/h).

Now put these two risc factors together - and there is almost ubelievable that it is possible. Like being able to navigate a low altitude aircraft - at near speed of light.

I have considered bad PSU too. Thing is - I have also had some computers in the past suffered from bad PSU, and I have never experienced cases where it "eats" harddrives. In my cases, the failures have always showed up in other forms - like system freeze, acting like bad ram, etc etc.
That said - I'm not a living database of hardware errors, your mobo/ram may be more sturdy against bad PSU and harddrives being more fragile ; I cannot exclude that either.

Also I consider bad SATA cable or connector.
Then I would expect the "UltraDMA CRC Error Count" to be something else than zero. That is why I beleive your cables is just fine.
However, if the power cables is loose / bad connection - is another ting. And I don't know how normal drives reacts when power cables is poorly connected.

Therefore - if the issue is also present for SSD devices, then I'll consider replacing the internal power cables and also the PSU.

For PSU recommendation - see this thread:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answe...ce=forum_email&utm_campaign=EPR-8809#21552776
Click to expand...
I rarely experience power outrages, maybe twice yearly. I torrent from time to time and once the torrent is done I stop it and then remove it, so no seeding. I haven't mined with my PC. I barely move the case while the computer is running, a little bit when I'm connecting my headphones/speakers or anything that's on the back side of the PC. My computer freezes from time to time, and I'm experiencing short-ram-like lag, even though I have 8gb of ram. When the computer freezes I can hear my HDD trying to turn itself back on or whatever that sound indicates, but if I unplug then plug back in the power sata cable the sound is gone and after around 10 seconds maybe my computer is unfrozen and can be used just like before.

When you add that to the fact that I've changed 4 HDD's in the past maybe 2 years, I think it's the PSU's fault for corrupting the HDD somehow, but I may be totally wrong. Changing the SATA data cable isn't a problem, a new cable is like 1 euro. I can probably even get a new HDD, as long as I know that my new HDD wont get corrupted by whichever component corrupts drives.

My PC takes around 5-10 minutes to boot up properly from complete shut down, so I've been leaving it on sleep for some time now. I think it's the HDD's fault for my PC's long boot up and maybe that could give you another hint of some component failing to do it's job, it's just that I don't know which one.
 
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Davor Vidojkovic

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Davor Vidojkovic

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Grobe said:
I went through your data using Libreoffice Calc, but you have not included the most important parameters, namely 5V and 12V readings.
All other readings, I cannot tell anythinh that sticks out.
Click to expand...
I checked on the net for applications that can read 5v and 12v and apparently my motherboard doesn't support hwmonitor. I can't see such readings on the picture below either, even though I'm using another application.
https://imgur.com/19Maahr
View: https://i.imgur.com/19Maahr.png

EDIT: Finally, I was able to find a program that would show me the 5v and 3.3v readings, but not the 12v... At least I got something for now.
https://imgur.com/c3cZl1M
View: https://i.imgur.com/c3cZl1M.png

EDIT 2: Alright, I guess this is what you wanted from the start.
https://imgur.com/EZiWe0k
View: https://i.imgur.com/EZiWe0k.png


I also ran a stability test and got back eye opening results:
https://imgur.com/6sxODZE
View: https://i.imgur.com/6sxODZE.png


From what I read it should be +/-5% and my voltage is fine.
 
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Davor Vidojkovic

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Grobe said:
From your screenshot, I really cannot put a diagnose for your PSU.

General advice: you could try replacing your PSU, and then see if the deteration rate of storage media slow down. Just be sure to backup your data regularly.
Click to expand...
Is the PSU the problem or? Because when I first mentioned the PSU on this post it was a wild guess. I deleted around 20gb from desktop and moved my pc a bit away from the desk my setup is on and now it seems to run smoother. I'm not sure if that's the case, but I find this very very strange.

EDIT: I can now run CS:GO at around 30-40fps instead of running it at 10fps like yesterday.
 
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