laptop with 2 hard drives?

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Do any of the Dell laptops provide 2 bays for
hard drives like the desktops do? (I'm looking
for an easy way to clone a laptop hard drive.)

*TimDaniels*
 
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"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>Do any of the Dell laptops provide 2 bays for
>hard drives like the desktops do? (I'm looking
>for an easy way to clone a laptop hard drive.)

Many Dell laptops support the D-Bay hard drive. I haven't tried
Ghosting my system disk to the D-Bay drive, but I'd imagine it would
work. The BIOS also supports booting from the D-Bay drive, FWIW.
 
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<William P.N. Smith> wrote:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> >Do any of the Dell laptops provide 2 bays for
> >hard drives like the desktops do? (I'm looking
> >for an easy way to clone a laptop hard drive.)
>
> Many Dell laptops support the D-Bay hard drive. I haven't tried
> Ghosting my system disk to the D-Bay drive, but I'd imagine it would
> work. The BIOS also supports booting from the D-Bay drive, FWIW.


Sounds encouraging. Is the "D-bay" usually used by other
storage devices (perhaps optical), or is it meant just for hard drives?

*TimDaniels*
 
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Does it support USB2? (If not, easy to add a USB2 PC Card, etc) ... I
would try Drive Image 7 with a laptop drive in an external USB2
enclosure (I use ADS Dual Links) ... that *should* create a bootable
image, but I have not tried it. [I have, however, moved desktop
drives in the Dual Link to an IDE channel with no problems - all
partitions, data, etc, remained accessible]

Timothy Daniels wrote:
> Do any of the Dell laptops provide 2 bays for
> hard drives like the desktops do? (I'm looking
> for an easy way to clone a laptop hard drive.)
>
> *TimDaniels*
 
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"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message news:<yI6dnVu-o_ftt9rcRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
> Do any of the Dell laptops provide 2 bays for
> hard drives like the desktops do? (I'm looking
> for an easy way to clone a laptop hard drive.)
>
> *TimDaniels*


A]
1)remove hard drive from laptop
2)insert laptop hard drive into desktop with special adapter (easy and
cheap to find)
3)clone drive

B]
1) use Norton Ghost (or similar)
2) send image to CD-RW or accross network
3) clone drive

C]
PROFIT!!!!
 
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"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:yI6dnVu-o_ftt9rcRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
> Do any of the Dell laptops provide 2 bays for
> hard drives like the desktops do? (I'm looking
> for an easy way to clone a laptop hard drive.)

Don't screw with that. The easy way to clone a laptop HD is on a desktop.
Just get an adapter(or two) and connect the laptop HD to a desktop's
standard EIDE cable.

FLT-3120
http://www.scsicablesource.com/images/flt-3120.jpg
 
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On 14 Sep 2004 18:10:22 -0700, returnoftheyeti@aol.com (the yeti) wrote:

>"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message news:<yI6dnVu-o_ftt9rcRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
>> Do any of the Dell laptops provide 2 bays for
>> hard drives like the desktops do? (I'm looking
>> for an easy way to clone a laptop hard drive.)
>>
>> *TimDaniels*
>
>
>A]
>1)remove hard drive from laptop
>2)insert laptop hard drive into desktop with special adapter (easy and
>cheap to find)
>3)clone drive
>
>B]
>1) use Norton Ghost (or similar)
>2) send image to CD-RW or accross network
>3) clone drive
>
>C]
>PROFIT!!!!

I bought a WD 160 GB External HD and backup my 5150 Laptop and
my XPS G2 via USB2 ports using Ghost.

Jack Mac
 
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"Ron Reaugh" wrote:
> The easy way to clone a laptop HD is on a desktop.
> Just get an adapter(or two) and connect the laptop
> HD to a desktop's standard EIDE cable.


So the adapter goes into what size bay of the
desktop?

So the procedure is to take the hard drive out
of the laptop, put it into the adapter in the desktop,
and 1) copy it to a desktop HD, or 2) copy it to another
laptop HD in another adapter inside the desktop?

*TimDaniels*
 
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"Markeau" wrote:
> Does it support USB2? (If not, easy to add a USB2 PC Card, etc) ... I
> would try Drive Image 7 with a laptop drive in an external USB2
> enclosure (I use ADS Dual Links) ... that *should* create a bootable
> image, but I have not tried it. [I have, however, moved desktop
> drives in the Dual Link to an IDE channel with no problems - all
> partitions, data, etc, remained accessible]


So you would use the ADS Dual Link external laptop drive kit
(http://www.cwol.com/firewire-drives/ads-dual-link-drive-kit.htm)
to use the laptop's USB2 channel to transfer the primary HD's
contents to the IDE laptop drive housed in the ADS external housing?

*TimDaniels*
 
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"the yeti" wrote:
> A]
> 1)remove hard drive from laptop
> 2)insert laptop hard drive into desktop with special adapter (easy and
> cheap to find)
> 3)clone drive


Clone the laptop drive to a partition on one of the desktop's drives
and then directly or indirectly back to a laptop drive?
If so, I would prefer something more direct, as in laptop drive to laptop
drive. Are there SATA drives for laptops, yet? Maybe one could
run a serial cable out to another laptop drive in an external housing?

*TimDaniels*
 
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"Jack Mac" wrote:
> I bought a WD 160 GB External HD and backup my
> 5150 Laptop and my XPS G2 via USB2 ports using Ghost.

The recovery after primary hard drive failure would
involve.... what? How do you get the laptop running
again? What I'd like to do (in absence of having a 2nd
HD already in my laptop) is just pop a backup HD into
the laptop.

*TimDaniels*
 
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"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
><William P.N. Smith> wrote:
>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>> >Do any of the Dell laptops provide 2 bays for
>> >hard drives like the desktops do? (I'm looking
>> >for an easy way to clone a laptop hard drive.)

>> Many Dell laptops support the D-Bay hard drive. I haven't tried
>> Ghosting my system disk to the D-Bay drive, but I'd imagine it would
>> work. The BIOS also supports booting from the D-Bay drive, FWIW.

> Sounds encouraging. Is the "D-bay" usually used by other
>storage devices (perhaps optical), or is it meant just for hard drives?

We've got nearly the full set of D-Bay peripherals, floppy, hard
drive, CD writer, DVD writer, and extended battery. I think they also
make a Zip drive and LS-120, but I don' t have much use for either of
those. 8*)

Yeah, if all you want is to clone a particular drive once, there are
easier ways, but if you want to be able to back up your system, the
D-Bay hard drive is wonderful. Since the latest versions of Ghost can
write image files to NTFS partitions, you can have multiple hard drive
images on your D-Bay drive and still store extra files and such. Just
make a (DOS) bootable partition, put Ghost on it, and you are ready
for complete destruction of your internal hard drive! 8*)

The housing (4P124) is about $30, it requires five screws (7M490) at
50 cents each. There are four optional screws (5X488) to hold the
hard drive in place, but they are $5 (yow!) each, and the compression
fit of the drive in the bay is pretty good. Add any 9.5mm laptop hard
drive and you are all set.

You can buy the whole thing assembled with a 40G drive for $104 from
Dell's Small Business sales, but a 40G drive isn't nearly big enough
for what we needed. I put a spare 60G in my wife's and a spare 80G in
mine, and I'm anxiously awaiting the 100s and 120s!
 
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<William P.N. Smith> wrote:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> Is the "D-bay" usually used by other storage devices
> (perhaps optical), or is it meant just for hard drives?
>
> We've got nearly the full set of D-Bay peripherals,
> floppy, hard drive, CD writer, DVD writer, and
> extended battery. I think they also make a Zip drive
> and LS-120, but I don' t have much use for either of
> those. 8*)


It sounds like the D-Bay is a generic peripheral
bay and using it for a 2nd hard drive precludes using
it for a CD-R/W. Is that true?

I imagine that I could use the D-Bay for a hard
drive just during the cloning process, but swapping
the other peripheral in and out and going through
the discovery by the OS of the change and loading
of the peripheral's driver could be a pain. What I'd
like to do is to make a clone hard drive for the laptop
so that I could just pop the clone in if the primary
hard drive should fail. (With my desktop, the 2nd
hard drive is always installed and ready to go.)


*TimDaniels*
 
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Three comments:

1. To clone a laptop hard drive means to clone it. If the original laptop drive
is the usual 2.5" type, so is the clone. TWO desktop adapters are needed for
cloning.

2. Though unlikely in this era of highly standardized BIOSes, it is possible
that the drive geometry(s) supported by a desktop BIOS are different than the
one used by the laptop. This could lead to one screwed up clone drive.

3. There is a MUCH easier way to clone a laptop drive. I did it last week to
get all the data from a failing 60GB drive inside a 3GHz Dell laptop onto a
replacement drive sent out by Dell to my client. Use a USB-IDE converter, and
attach the drive to be cloned to the laptop via its USB port. (In the unlikely
event that the laptop lacks a USB port, the same can be done with a PC Card-IDE
converter.)

The USB-IDE converter I bought came in a box marked "ALL PURPOSES SMART IDE
CONVERTER." You can bet from the brilliant syntax that the kit came from
Taiwan, which is what the box says. But the converter worked even more
brilliantly than the syntax, perfectly in fact. I don't think I paid more than
$30 for the USB-IDE converter on eBay.

I also used Seagate's SEATOOLS, which will clone any standard partition type
(FAT16, FAT32, or NTFS), but not oddball or hidden diagnostic partitions.

.... Ben Myers

On 14 Sep 2004 18:10:22 -0700, returnoftheyeti@aol.com (the yeti) wrote:

>"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message news:<yI6dnVu-o_ftt9rcRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
>> Do any of the Dell laptops provide 2 bays for
>> hard drives like the desktops do? (I'm looking
>> for an easy way to clone a laptop hard drive.)
>>
>> *TimDaniels*
>
>
>A]
>1)remove hard drive from laptop
>2)insert laptop hard drive into desktop with special adapter (easy and
>cheap to find)
>3)clone drive
>
>B]
>1) use Norton Ghost (or similar)
>2) send image to CD-RW or accross network
>3) clone drive
>
>C]
>PROFIT!!!!
 
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<(Ben Myers)> wrote:
>
> 3. There is a MUCH easier way to clone a laptop drive.
> I did it last week to get all the data from a failing 60GB
> drive inside a 3GHz Dell laptop onto a replacement drive
> sent out by Dell to my client. Use a USB-IDE converter,
> and attach the drive to be cloned to the laptop via its USB
> port. (In the unlikely event that the laptop lacks a USB port,
> the same can be done with a PC Card-IDE converter.)
>
> The USB-IDE converter I bought came in a box marked
> "ALL PURPOSES SMART IDE CONVERTER." You
> can bet from the brilliant syntax that the kit came from Taiwan,
> which is what the box says. But the converter worked even
> more brilliantly than the syntax, perfectly in fact. I don't think
> I paid more than $30 for the USB-IDE converter on eBay.


Could you name the make and model of the USB/IDE
converter? Does it include an external housing?

*TimDaniels*
 
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<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:4147b0b5.53739748@news.charter.net...
> Three comments:
>
> 1. To clone a laptop hard drive means to clone it. If the original laptop
drive
> is the usual 2.5" type, so is the clone. TWO desktop adapters are needed
for
> cloning.

Right, just like I said possibly two. But that's the harder way. Make an
image file of the laptop drive on the desktop HD and then restore that image
file to another laptop drive inserted into the same adapter.

> 2. Though unlikely in this era of highly standardized BIOSes, it is
possible
> that the drive geometry(s) supported by a desktop BIOS are different than
the
> one used by the laptop. This could lead to one screwed up clone drive.

VERY unlikely today.

> 3. There is a MUCH easier way to clone a laptop drive. I did it last week
to
> get all the data from a failing 60GB drive inside a 3GHz Dell laptop onto
a
> replacement drive sent out by Dell to my client. Use a USB-IDE converter,
and
> attach the drive to be cloned to the laptop via its USB port. (In the
unlikely
> event that the laptop lacks a USB port, the same can be done with a PC
Card-IDE
> converter.)

Although workable this technique is more likely to have some potholes than
the other.

> The USB-IDE converter I bought came in a box marked "ALL PURPOSES SMART
IDE
> CONVERTER." You can bet from the brilliant syntax that the kit came from
> Taiwan, which is what the box says. But the converter worked even more
> brilliantly than the syntax, perfectly in fact. I don't think I paid more
than
> $30 for the USB-IDE converter on eBay.
>
> I also used Seagate's SEATOOLS, which will clone any standard partition
type
> (FAT16, FAT32, or NTFS), but not oddball or hidden diagnostic partitions.
>
> ... Ben Myers
>
> On 14 Sep 2004 18:10:22 -0700, returnoftheyeti@aol.com (the yeti) wrote:
>
> >"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:<yI6dnVu-o_ftt9rcRVn-uQ@comcast.com>...
> >> Do any of the Dell laptops provide 2 bays for
> >> hard drives like the desktops do? (I'm looking
> >> for an easy way to clone a laptop hard drive.)
> >>
> >> *TimDaniels*
> >
> >
> >A]
> >1)remove hard drive from laptop
> >2)insert laptop hard drive into desktop with special adapter (easy and
> >cheap to find)
> >3)clone drive
> >
> >B]
> >1) use Norton Ghost (or similar)
> >2) send image to CD-RW or accross network
> >3) clone drive
> >
> >C]
> >PROFIT!!!!
>
 
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To get it straight in my head Ben, windows sees the external HD as just
another drive and I could clone (Drive Copy, Partition Magic etc) to that
drive. Sounds great.

Brian



> 3. There is a MUCH easier way to clone a laptop drive. I did it last week
> to
> get all the data from a failing 60GB drive inside a 3GHz Dell laptop onto
> a
> replacement drive sent out by Dell to my client. Use a USB-IDE converter,
> and
> attach the drive to be cloned to the laptop via its USB port. (In the
> unlikely
> event that the laptop lacks a USB port, the same can be done with a PC
> Card-IDE
> converter.)
>
 
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"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:B9ednQOVYcfaeNrcRVn-ow@comcast.com...
> "Ron Reaugh" wrote:
> > The easy way to clone a laptop HD is on a desktop.
> > Just get an adapter(or two) and connect the laptop
> > HD to a desktop's standard EIDE cable.
>
>
> So the adapter goes into what size bay of the
> desktop?

Bay? It sits on your desk while doing the copy.

> So the procedure is to take the hard drive out
> of the laptop, put it into the adapter in the desktop,

Cable adapter...forget the mechanical adapter.

> and 1) copy it to a desktop HD, or 2) copy it to another
> laptop HD in another adapter inside the desktop?

No, the 2nd laptop HD would also sit on your desk while copying.
 
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"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
> It sounds like the D-Bay is a generic peripheral
>bay and using it for a 2nd hard drive precludes using
>it for a CD-R/W. Is that true?

Yes and mostly yes. You can swap them in one at a time unless you
have a D-Dock docking station, which has another D-Bay, and allows
three at a time. You can also use the D-Bay "Powered USB" connector
(USB plus extra power) to get another external D-Bay on some laptops
and the D-Dock and the "port replicator"

> I imagine that I could use the D-Bay for a hard
>drive just during the cloning process, but swapping
>the other peripheral in and out and going through
>the discovery by the OS of the change and loading
>of the peripheral's driver could be a pain.

Nope, just stop the one peripheral and plug in the other. Kinda like
USB, but with IDE.

>like to do is to make a clone hard drive for the laptop
>so that I could just pop the clone in if the primary
>hard drive should fail. (With my desktop, the 2nd
>hard drive is always installed and ready to go.)

You can do this if you don't mind booting from the D-Bay drive (or
doing the physical swap). Note that Win2K (and probably XP) don't
work well if you have both the system drive and it's mirror powered up
and in the system at the same time, so you'll want to remove the drive
after cloning it.
 
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 00:13:42 -0700, "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com>
wrote:

>"Jack Mac" wrote:
>> I bought a WD 160 GB External HD and backup my
>> 5150 Laptop and my XPS G2 via USB2 ports using Ghost.
>
> The recovery after primary hard drive failure would
>involve.... what? How do you get the laptop running
>again?
1. Replace the failed HD in the laptop.
2. Boot the laptop using the Boot CD created by Ghost.
3. Plug the external HD into the USB2 port.
4. Restore the backed up files to the new internal HD.
The External USB2 HD permits me to back up more than
one computer.... not just my laptop.

What I'd like to do (in absence of having a 2nd
>HD already in my laptop) is just pop a backup HD into
>the laptop.
>
>*TimDaniels*
That could become involved if you do frequent
backups/clones. Guess it'd become easier after you've
done it a few times.

Jack Mac
 
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<William P.N. Smith> wrote:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> > It sounds like the D-Bay is a generic peripheral
> >bay and using it for a 2nd hard drive precludes using
> >it for a CD-R/W. Is that true?
>
> Yes and mostly yes. You can swap them in one at a time unless you
> have a D-Dock docking station, which has another D-Bay, and allows
> three at a time. You can also use the D-Bay "Powered USB" connector
> (USB plus extra power) to get another external D-Bay on some laptops
> and the D-Dock and the "port replicator"
>
> > I imagine that I could use the D-Bay for a hard
> >drive just during the cloning process, but swapping
> >the other peripheral in and out and going through
> >the discovery by the OS of the change and loading
> >of the peripheral's driver could be a pain.
>
> Nope, just stop the one peripheral and plug in the other. Kinda like
> USB, but with IDE.


Thanks. My mind is just now getting out of the desktop mode.


> >like to do is to make a clone hard drive for the laptop
> >so that I could just pop the clone in if the primary
> >hard drive should fail. (With my desktop, the 2nd
> >hard drive is always installed and ready to go.)
>
> You can do this if you don't mind booting from the D-Bay drive (or
> doing the physical swap). Note that Win2K (and probably XP) don't
> work well if you have both the system drive and it's mirror powered up
> and in the system at the same time, so you'll want to remove the drive
> after cloning it.


Is this specific to laptops? In my desktop, as long as the
new clone is powered up for the first time without the original HD
connected, subsequent boots have the "other systems" (i.e. the
ones that weren't booted) as just other "local disks" with their file
systems fully visible and accessible for reads and writes. And
with the boot.ini file in the HD that is selected by the BIOS
pointing to all the bootable partitions on both of the HDs, I
can select which partition boots using Win XP's multi-boot
feature. I had assumed one could do this with a laptop, too.
Not true?

*TimDaniels*
 
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In article <np-dnXO4t4VeftrcRVn-jA@comcast.com>, TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com
(Timothy Daniels) says...

> It sounds like the D-Bay is a generic peripheral
> bay and using it for a 2nd hard drive precludes using
> it for a CD-R/W. Is that true?

A D-Bay drive just plugs into the USB port. Accessory drives even ship
with a USB cable so you don't have to install them in the computer to
use them.

You can get the same functionality using any external USB or FireWire
hard drive.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
 
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"Larry Caldwell" wrote:
> A D-Bay drive just plugs into the USB port. Accessory drives even ship
> with a USB cable so you don't have to install them in the computer to
> use them.
>
> You can get the same functionality using any external USB or FireWire
> hard drive.


Thanks. I had pictured a D-Bay as an unused bay in the laptop.

*TimDaniels*
 
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"Ron Reaugh" wrote:
>
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> > "Ron Reaugh" wrote:
> > > The easy way to clone a laptop HD is on a desktop.
> > > Just get an adapter(or two) and connect the laptop
> > > HD to a desktop's standard EIDE cable.
> >
> >
> > So the adapter goes into what size bay of the
> > desktop?
>
> Bay? It sits on your desk while doing the copy.


OK. I was picturing an "adapter" as being a pair of
adapter *brackets* or a removable tray that allows one
to put a laptop HD in a desktop. Apparently, cooling is
adequate for a laptop HD just sitting on a desk - no
fan blowing on it necessary?

*TimDaniels*
 
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Yes, you've got it right, assuming that the operating system has respectable USB
support, namely Windows 2000 or some flavor of Windows XP, which is my
assumption in making the following suggestions.

Make sure your cloning software marks the clone drive's Windows partition as
bootable.

On a fairly contemporary Dell notebook (and others as well), make sure you copy
the hidden diagnostic partition first, so you'll need a commercial product to do
so.

If you don't copy the diagnostic partition at all, you'll need to edit the boot
disk info to refer to partition 1 (Windows NT systems count partition numbers up
beginning with 1) rather than partition 2... Ben Myers

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 04:51:11 GMT, "Brian K" <iibntgyea4_
remove_this_@hotmail.com> wrote:

>To get it straight in my head Ben, windows sees the external HD as just
>another drive and I could clone (Drive Copy, Partition Magic etc) to that
>drive. Sounds great.
>
>Brian
>
>
>
>> 3. There is a MUCH easier way to clone a laptop drive. I did it last week
>> to
>> get all the data from a failing 60GB drive inside a 3GHz Dell laptop onto
>> a
>> replacement drive sent out by Dell to my client. Use a USB-IDE converter,
>> and
>> attach the drive to be cloned to the laptop via its USB port. (In the
>> unlikely
>> event that the laptop lacks a USB port, the same can be done with a PC
>> Card-IDE
>> converter.)
>>
>
>