Question Late packets issue?

[HowlingWolf95]

Hello everyone,

so a few months back I starter experiencing some weird issues. While I would play online/multiplayer games I would often have stutters. I mainly play Dota 2 and CS2 so I noticed the issue there. I need to make clear that the stutters would randomly appear (and disappear) in between 20:00 and 00:00, during the day I wouldn't have stutters. I suspect it has something to do with "Late packets". While I had the stutters I did the test on https://packetlosstest.com/ site and it would wary, but the late packets would constanly have a percentage. Also, the stutters would correspond with the late packets in the test. When I do the test during the day, everything is normal.

How can I resolve this problem?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ralston18]

If the cause is between your modem, router, or modem/router (if combined) and computer you may be able to fix it.

If the cause is between your router and ISP, your ISP may be able to fix it.

If the cause is beyond your ISP then there is likely little to be done that could fix it.

Run "tracert" and "pathping" targeting Google at 8.8.8.8 or 8.8.4.4 via the Command Prompt.

Copy and paste the full results here.

You can also target the game site as well.

FYI:

https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/network-troubleshooting-techniques/

You can easily find other similar links and tutorials.

No need, at present, to download any other 3rd party apps or utilities for diagnostic purposes.

 

[bill001g]

You likely can't fix it. There really is no true definition of what a "late" packet is so it many times is something testing site make up. It does not always mean there is a actual problem. Some sites like the DSL testing site find "buffer bloat" in almost everyone's internet connection even though bufferbloat only truly occurs at 100% usage which is not very likely when you have a gigbit internet.

For online games the issue is you need consistent latency. The games use the timing between the packets and the overall latency to predict the positions of players/items in the game in the future. If this timing varies the predictions are not valid and when the game corrects you get stutter and lag.

The most common cause is someone who plays games on wifi. Wifi is subject to interference from both inside and outside your house. Wifi unlike almost any other network transport does error correction and retransmits lost data. This takes time and causes latency variations.

The other would be if for some reason there was a over utilized connection in the path between you and the game company. You really only can do something if it was say too many people in your house using your internet. You would have to buy a larger plan. This is extremely uncommon now days. Even 100mbps is more than enough unless someone is downloading files all the time.

 

[HowlingWolf95]

If the cause is between your modem, router, or modem/router (if combined) and computer you may be able to fix it.

If the cause is between your router and ISP, your ISP may be able to fix it.

If the cause is beyond your ISP then there is likely little to be done that could fix it.

Run "tracert" and "pathping" targeting Google at 8.8.8.8 or 8.8.4.4 via the Command Prompt.

Copy and paste the full results here.

You can also target the game site as well.

FYI:

https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/network-troubleshooting-techniques/

You can easily find other similar links and tutorials.

No need, at present, to download any other 3rd party apps or utilities for diagnostic purposes.

Hey Ralston, so I ran tracert for Google and got this:

Tracing route to dns.google [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.box [192.168.1.1]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms hdr11-gtr02-3.ip.t-com.hr [195.29.3.177]
5 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms gtr09-hdr11-2.ip.t-com.hr [195.29.225.142]
6 11 ms 11 ms 12 ms 72.14.204.128
7 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 216.239.56.157
8 12 ms 12 ms 11 ms 142.251.65.219
9 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms dns.google [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

and pathping:

Tracing route to dns.google [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
0 DESKTOP-JBB9IUA [192.168.1.18]
1 home.box [192.168.1.1]
2 * * *
Computing statistics for 25 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 DESKTOP-JBB9IUA [192.168.1.18]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 0ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% home.box [192.168.1.1]

 

[HowlingWolf95]

You likely can't fix it. There really is no true definition of what a "late" packet is so it many times is something testing site make up. It does not always mean there is a actual problem. Some sites like the DSL testing site find "buffer bloat" in almost everyone's internet connection even though bufferbloat only truly occurs at 100% usage which is not very likely when you have a gigbit internet.

For online games the issue is you need consistent latency. The games use the timing between the packets and the overall latency to predict the positions of players/items in the game in the future. If this timing varies the predictions are not valid and when the game corrects you get stutter and lag.

The most common cause is someone who plays games on wifi. Wifi is subject to interference from both inside and outside your house. Wifi unlike almost any other network transport does error correction and retransmits lost data. This takes time and causes latency variations.

The other would be if for some reason there was a over utilized connection in the path between you and the game company. You really only can do something if it was say too many people in your house using your internet. You would have to buy a larger plan. This is extremely uncommon now days. Even 100mbps is more than enough unless someone is downloading files all the time.

Hey Bill,

I am using ethernet cable. While I game my parents usually watch TV (idk how to describe it, its like a cable TV but it uses internet), but it is not consistent in giving me issues (as in I get it anyways, regardless if the TV is on) so I am pretty sure thats not the reason I have "late packets".

 

[Ralston18]

Make and model information for modem, router, or modem/router if combined?

Run "ipconfig/all" (without quotes) via the Command Prompt.

Copy and paste the full results here.

Added question: Make and model TV? how connected, where connected?

 

[HowlingWolf95]

Make and model information for modem, router, or modem/router if combined?

Run "ipconfig/all" (without quotes) via the Command Prompt.

Copy and paste the full results here.

Added question: Make and model TV? how connected, where connected?

It say on the modem/router: "Magenta Home Box"

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : DESKTOP-JBB9IUA
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Ethernet:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek PCIe GbE Family Controller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : A8-A1-59-46-36-EF
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . :
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . :
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 28. rujna 2024. 22:17:14
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 29. rujna 2024. 22:17:14
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . :
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . :
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . :
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . :
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Sry about some deleted parts I am just scared to share any vounerable information online.
The TV is some offbrand called Tesla and it is connected by a wire to a small reciever which then provides the internet for different channels.

 

[lantis3]

There is almost nothing you can do about packet loss or packet delay as mentioned by others.

Packet delivery is just like you sending a package via USPS. FedEx, UPS, Amazon, etc. Once the package is out of the door/your home, you have absolutely no control.

 

[bill001g]

Your current posting show no issues...strange that pathping did not return results.

It might be very intermittent.

Try the more standard test. Leave a constant ping run to 8.8.8.8 in a background window. When you see issues in the game quickly switch over and see if the ping also shows issues.

If the ping does not see loss or very large latency increase I would start to suspect some game setting or maybe the game server as the problem. It could also be some issue with the path to 8.8.8.8. being different than to the game server. There is very little you can do about the path to the game company data center.

 

[Ralston18]

There is nothing in "ipconfig /all" to be concerned about.

Some folks will mask part of the MACs but that is not necessary.

The IP addresses are all in the three IP address ranges used by thousands of small networks.

FYI:

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-a-public-ip-address-2625974

It is your public IP address that should not be posted.

As for the three ranges:

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-a-private-ip-address-2625970

Pathping indicates that your router has the IP address of 192.168.1.1 (as does my LinkSys router).

And your router (modem/router) may be named home.box?

Your computer was (at that time) using a DHCP IP address of 192.168.1.18. Which may change when the computer is booted.

Tesla TV - FYI:

This TV?

https://teslasmart.com/data/files/219-manual-tesla-smart-uhd-tv.pdf

Try to find out more about that small receiver.

And how the various network devices are connected.

I would expect something like the following line diagram:

ISP === (DSL, coax, fiber) ===>[Modem/ Router (home.box?) [LAN port] ---- Ethernet cable ---> [LAN port] Desktop-JBB91UA (your computer)

And

~~~ wireless from router ~~~~> Tesla Receiver -----Ethernet cable ----> Tesla TV.

Any other connected (wired or wireless) network devices of any sort.

Feel free to edit and correct my line diagram as necessary.

This Tesla TV?

https://teslasmart.com/data/files/219-manual-tesla-smart-uhd-tv.pdf

And

https://tesla.info/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Tesla-TV-32T320BHS-32T320SHS-EU-User-Manual.pdf

Page 7 presents wired and wireless connectivity.

Page 11 indicates that the TV will automatically acquire an IP address meaning DHCP.

Having/knowing the IP addresses of those internet devices will prove helpful in trouble shooting the network for any IP address issues.

And I agree that there is little to be done about packet loss outside of your network and ISP.

However, the pathping results do not look right. They should have ended at Google 8.8.8.8 - not home box.

Use "What is my IP" to learn your Public IP address. Mask out that IP address if it appears somewhere.

May not be able to fix packet losses beyond the modem router. However, if there is anything amiss within the network configuration as a whole.

 

[HowlingWolf95]

do about packet loss or packet delay as mentioned by oth

There is nothing in "ipconfig /all" to be concerned about.

Some folks will mask part of the MACs but that is not necessary.

The IP addresses are all in the three IP address ranges used by thousands of small networks.

FYI:

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-a-public-ip-address-2625974

It is your public IP address that should not be posted.

As for three ranges:

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-a-private-ip-address-2625970

Pathping indicates that your router has the IP address of 192.168.1.1 (as does my LinkSys router).

And may be named home.box?

Your computer was (at that time) using a DHCP IP address of 192.168.1.18. Which may change when the computer is booted.

Does the TV connection you described look similar to the image in the following link?

https://zevfacts.com/tesla-wall-connector-ip-address/#:~:text=The IP address for Tesla Wall Connector is,purposes, including connecting to your local Wi-Fi network.

Thanks for the insight!
No it doesn't looke like that, its just a random brand; not the real Tesla one.

 

[HowlingWolf95]

Your current posting show no issues...strange that pathping did not return results.

It might be very intermittent.

Try the more standard test. Leave a constant ping run to 8.8.8.8 in a background window. When you see issues in the game quickly switch over and see if the ping also shows issues.

If the ping does not see loss or very large latency increase I would start to suspect some game setting or maybe the game server as the problem. It could also be some issue with the path to 8.8.8.8. being different than to the game server. There is very little you can do about the path to the game company data center.

I did that test earlier and it shoved jumps from 12ms to 50ms or even 130ms. It would be like 12 to 15ms for like 6 lines, then 50 or 130ms and again 6 lines and again big jumps.

 

[Ralston18]

Note: I just edited/corrected my post (Post #10).

Lost some of it.

 

[bill001g]

I did that test earlier and it shoved jumps from 12ms to 50ms or even 130ms. It would be like 12 to 15ms for like 6 lines, then 50 or 130ms and again 6 lines and again big jumps.

So that is a issue now you just have to try to find it.

What you need to do is test to the intermediate routers you see in the tracert. Pathping should have done this for you if it had worked. Pathping though does not run long enough to find intermittent issues so you will just do it yourself.

Unfortunately hop 2 and hop 3 do not respond. This generally represents the connection between your house and the ISP and is the most common source of issues. It is very unfortunate that the ISP has configured it to not let you test to their routers.

So what you now do is leave the ping run to the 8.8.8.8 IP so that you know when you have a issue. Next open 2 more ping windows. You want the first to ping your router IP in hop 1. You should not see any issues to hop 1. This is mostly to prove to your ISP that the problem is not your PC or your router. Normally I would say ping hop 2 but that is not a option for you . You will likely have to use hop 4 that has a ip of 195.29.3.177.

What you really hope is you see similar spikes in the ping to this ip. You can then call your ISP and show them that they have a issue...problem is testing to hop 4 does not really tell you if the problem is with hop 4 or if it might be hop 2 or 3. Only the ISP is going to be able to test since they prevent you.

If hop 4 is good you can try other hops but you will soon get into another ISP network and your ISP can correctly blame the other ISP. Problem is only your ISP can call the other ISP and they likely will not do that so you really want the problem to be in your ISP network.

 

[Ralston18]

The wall connector link is for an electric vehicle and was not the intended link. My error - apologies.

Specifically looking for the IP address being used by the Tesla television.

It could prove very helpful to know the IP addresses being used by all of your network's devices.

 

[HowlingWolf95]

There is nothing in "ipconfig /all" to be concerned about.

Some folks will mask part of the MACs but that is not necessary.

The IP addresses are all in the three IP address ranges used by thousands of small networks.

FYI:

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-a-public-ip-address-2625974

It is your public IP address that should not be posted.

As for the three ranges:

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-a-private-ip-address-2625970

Pathping indicates that your router has the IP address of 192.168.1.1 (as does my LinkSys router).

And your router (modem/router) may be named home.box?

Your computer was (at that time) using a DHCP IP address of 192.168.1.18. Which may change when the computer is booted.

Tesla TV - FYI:

This TV?

https://teslasmart.com/data/files/219-manual-tesla-smart-uhd-tv.pdf

Try to find out more about that small receiver.

And how the various network devices are connected.

I would expect something like the following line diagram:

ISP === (DSL, coax, fiber) ===>[Modem/ Router (home.box?) [LAN port] ---- Ethernet cable ---> [LAN port] Desktop-JBB91UA (your computer)

And

~~~ wireless from router ~~~~> Tesla Receiver -----Ethernet cable ----> Tesla TV.

Any other connected (wired or wireless) network devices of any sort.

Feel free to edit and correct my line diagram as necessary.

This Tesla TV?

https://teslasmart.com/data/files/219-manual-tesla-smart-uhd-tv.pdf

And

https://tesla.info/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Tesla-TV-32T320BHS-32T320SHS-EU-User-Manual.pdf

Page 7 presents wired and wireless connectivity.

Page 11 indicates that the TV will automatically acquire an IP address meaning DHCP.

Having/knowing the IP addresses of those internet devices will prove helpful in trouble shooting the network for any IP address issues.

And I agree that there is little to be done about packet loss outside of your network and ISP.

However, the pathping results do not look right. They should have ended at Google 8.8.8.8 - not home box.

Use "What is my IP" to learn your Public IP address. Mask out that IP address if it appears somewhere.

May not be able to fix packet losses beyond the modem router. However, if there is anything amiss within the network configuration as a whole.

I think that is the TV my family has.
The diagram is almost correct.
The reciever is not from TV's manufacturer its an ISP reciever since my ISP covers our telephony, internet and TV.
The correct diagram would be:
ISP------->DSL------>Modem/router------->ethernet cable----->PC
and for the TV:
ISP----->DSL------>Modem/router------>ethernet cable----->ISP's reciever------>ethernet cable------->TV

In the meantime I contacted the ISP and they said they will solve the problem until this tuesday, so I will keep you updated.

Thanks again

 

[Ralston18]

Interesting - not sure about the requirement for that "ISP's receiver".

Seems redundant.

If the TV has a LAN port then the TV should be internet capable on its's own.

I would expect a direct ethernet cable connection between modem/router and TV.

DSL service uses a splitter (also referred to as a filter) to separate telephone and internet services.

FYI:

https://www.att.com/support/article...0068?msockid=264b487f412f65300e1b5d76402864ec

Just as a matter of speculation the splitter may not be where it should be and I do wonder about the connecting cable(s) being used.....

Indeed, please update.

If possible take a couple photographs of that ISP receive device and post the photographs here using imgur (www.imgur.com). Show the ports on the device.

 

[HowlingWolf95]

Okay, just so to update you all.

Today my ISP's technician came and said there was nothing wrong with the local network nod (if thats how you call it) and he replaced my router. Unfortunately the problem persisted.

The TV situation I mentioned above is a bit complicated and I did one mistake in explaining it.

So, my ISP offers telephony, TV and Internet services all at once - trough a router/modem. The telephone, PC and the ISP TV reciever (looks similar to this: https://postimg.cc/vxRx5Hrs) are all connected to the router (PC and reciever trough ethernet cable, TV is only connected to the reciever by a HDMI).

Tonight I ran the tracerts bill001g recommended and noticed the spikes went away when the TV was turned off.

So that seems to be the issue. I will contact the tech support again and describe them whats happening and wil update you all on this again.