LCD industry cannot make 16- ms response time for 19+ in LCD

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

LCD industry leaders like Samsung and Sony cannot make 16-
ms response time a reality for 19+ in LCD.

Do you see any LCD with a 16ms response time or better for
19+ inch LCD from them? No. The industry isn't capable to
make it.

When coming to 19+ in monitor, buy a CRT.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Boy, you are angry. You are also wrong. Sony makes a 19 inch LCD with a
12ms response time (SDM-HS94). They also make a 23 inch LCD with a 16ms
response time (SDM-P234).

Richard

"angry" <angry@lcd.com> wrote in message
news:22js01lo4ab07e1t9oa0c149nb167rts1l@4ax.com...
> LCD industry leaders like Samsung and Sony cannot make 16-
> ms response time a reality for 19+ in LCD.
>
> Do you see any LCD with a 16ms response time or better for
> 19+ inch LCD from them? No. The industry isn't capable to
> make it.
>
> When coming to 19+ in monitor, buy a CRT.
>



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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

angry wrote:
> LCD industry leaders like Samsung and Sony cannot make 16-
> ms response time a reality for 19+ in LCD.
>
> Do you see any LCD with a 16ms response time or better for
> 19+ inch LCD from them? No. The industry isn't capable to
> make it.
>
> When coming to 19+ in monitor, buy a CRT.


I just entered '12ms' and '19 inch' at Newegg.com under LCD
Monitors and I got three hits. For 16ms I got 9 hits.



Too_Much_Coffee ®

---
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

angry wrote:
> LCD industry leaders like Samsung and Sony cannot make 16-
> ms response time a reality for 19+ in LCD.
>
> Do you see any LCD with a 16ms response time or better for
> 19+ inch LCD from them? No. The industry isn't capable to
> make it.
>
> When coming to 19+ in monitor, buy a CRT.


Only $1624.00US and it's yours .
http://tinyurl.com/5fcyr



TMC

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:59:51 -0500, "Richard Forester"
<richard_forester(nospam)@msn.com> wrote:

>Boy, you are angry. You are also wrong. Sony makes a 19 inch LCD with a
>12ms response time (SDM-HS94). They also make a 23 inch LCD with a 16ms
>response time (SDM-P234).
>
>Richard
>
Yeah you're right.

I've looked at this two. The only thing made me not buying
the 19 inch SONY is it has a dot pitch of .296mm. Really
wish they can reduce it lower.

The 23 inch has 16ms response time and .25mm dot pitch. It
just costs too much money.

Again, you're right.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

I agree. The price on the 23" is way out of my range. I do like the 19"
though but it has the same resolution as the 17" (which is common) so it has
me thinking of just getting the 17" model. Of course, then it's a smaller
screen. I really like the Sony LCDs. I've had 2 CRTs from them that look
just awesome. When I look at other brands they seem to pale in comparison.

Have you narrowed down your choices as to which one you will eventually get?

Richard

"anygry" <angry@lcd.com> wrote in message
news:61rs01lquatu4hk9vqd5paqhg3p4soukor@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:59:51 -0500, "Richard Forester"
> <richard_forester(nospam)@msn.com> wrote:
>
>>Boy, you are angry. You are also wrong. Sony makes a 19 inch LCD with a
>>12ms response time (SDM-HS94). They also make a 23 inch LCD with a 16ms
>>response time (SDM-P234).
>>
>>Richard
>>
> Yeah you're right.
>
> I've looked at this two. The only thing made me not buying
> the 19 inch SONY is it has a dot pitch of .296mm. Really
> wish they can reduce it lower.
>
> The 23 inch has 16ms response time and .25mm dot pitch. It
> just costs too much money.
>
> Again, you're right.
>



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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

anygry wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:59:51 -0500, "Richard Forester"
> <richard_forester(nospam)@msn.com> wrote:
>
>>Boy, you are angry. You are also wrong. Sony makes a 19 inch LCD with a
>>12ms response time (SDM-HS94). They also make a 23 inch LCD with a 16ms
>>response time (SDM-P234).
>>
>>Richard
>>
> Yeah you're right.
>
> I've looked at this two. The only thing made me not buying
> the 19 inch SONY is it has a dot pitch of .296mm. Really
> wish they can reduce it lower.

1280 x 1024 is standard for a 19". Any finer than that and a lot of people
have have to do a lot of tweaking to get a readable display.

> The 23 inch has 16ms response time and .25mm dot pitch. It
> just costs too much money.
>
> Again, you're right.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

 

[augustus]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"angry" <angry@lcd.com> wrote in message
news:22js01lo4ab07e1t9oa0c149nb167rts1l@4ax.com...
> LCD industry leaders like Samsung and Sony cannot make 16-
> ms response time a reality for 19+ in LCD.
>
> Do you see any LCD with a 16ms response time or better for
> 19+ inch LCD from them? No. The industry isn't capable to
> make it.
>
The Dell 193FP is a 16ms LCD and it is excellent. Bought one for my wife's
computer. Flawless quality, brilliant picture, runs any and all games
without smearing even at non native resolution. It's analog only, but the
crispness and clarity is DV level. $386 right now. I would recommend it
highly.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Got a viewsonic vx910 , 19inch, 16ms, has dvi, so far no ghosting or
smearing on games or dvd. Picked it up at compusa for $342 AR. So far runs
great!


"Augustus" <augustus@wrtt.net> wrote in message
news:CUuPd.27886$K54.7761@edtnps84...
>
> "angry" <angry@lcd.com> wrote in message
> news:22js01lo4ab07e1t9oa0c149nb167rts1l@4ax.com...
>> LCD industry leaders like Samsung and Sony cannot make 16-
>> ms response time a reality for 19+ in LCD.
>>
>> Do you see any LCD with a 16ms response time or better for
>> 19+ inch LCD from them? No. The industry isn't capable to
>> make it.
>>
> The Dell 193FP is a 16ms LCD and it is excellent. Bought one for my wife's
> computer. Flawless quality, brilliant picture, runs any and all games
> without smearing even at non native resolution. It's analog only, but the
> crispness and clarity is DV level. $386 right now. I would recommend it
> highly.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

my dell 2001 20+ inch LCD is 16ms RT. Had it for over a yr so yes they are
around and getting even faster. Seem to recall reading that several coming
out at 12 or less even.

"Richard Forester" <richard_forester(nospam)@msn.com> wrote in message
news:420e7781_2@127.0.0.1...
>I agree. The price on the 23" is way out of my range. I do like the 19"
>though but it has the same resolution as the 17" (which is common) so it
>has me thinking of just getting the 17" model. Of course, then it's a
>smaller screen. I really like the Sony LCDs. I've had 2 CRTs from them
>that look just awesome. When I look at other brands they seem to pale in
>comparison.
>
> Have you narrowed down your choices as to which one you will eventually
> get?
>
> Richard
>
> "anygry" <angry@lcd.com> wrote in message
> news:61rs01lquatu4hk9vqd5paqhg3p4soukor@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:59:51 -0500, "Richard Forester"
>> <richard_forester(nospam)@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Boy, you are angry. You are also wrong. Sony makes a 19 inch LCD with a
>>>12ms response time (SDM-HS94). They also make a 23 inch LCD with a 16ms
>>>response time (SDM-P234).
>>>
>>>Richard
>>>
>> Yeah you're right.
>>
>> I've looked at this two. The only thing made me not buying
>> the 19 inch SONY is it has a dot pitch of .296mm. Really
>> wish they can reduce it lower.
>>
>> The 23 inch has 16ms response time and .25mm dot pitch. It
>> just costs too much money.
>>
>> Again, you're right.
>>
>
>
>
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Too_Much_Coffee ® wrote:
> Only $1624.00US and it's yours .
> http://tinyurl.com/5fcyr

I saw that the other day.

Would *almost* eliminate the requirement for a tele in many in cases.

I want one.

The Apple have a 30" 2560x1600 display but you need a mac only, geForce with
a DDL interface, and apparently it's not that great in terms of viewing
angle and response. Oh well, we're getting there with large, high-res
screens.

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

angry <angry@lcd.com> wrote in news:22js01lo4ab07e1t9oa0c149nb167rts1l@
4ax.com:

> LCD industry leaders like Samsung and Sony cannot make 16-
> ms response time a reality for 19+ in LCD.
>
> Do you see any LCD with a 16ms response time or better for
> 19+ inch LCD from them? No. The industry isn't capable to
> make it.
>
> When coming to 19+ in monitor, buy a CRT.


Euh!! I think i'm missing something here.
Why my new monitor is an 8ms.
Samsung 915N out here, since 1 week

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"angry" <angry@lcd.com> wrote in message
news:22js01lo4ab07e1t9oa0c149nb167rts1l@4ax.com...
> LCD industry leaders like Samsung and Sony cannot make 16-
> ms response time a reality for 19+ in LCD.
>
> Do you see any LCD with a 16ms response time or better for
> 19+ inch LCD from them? No. The industry isn't capable to
> make it.
>
> When coming to 19+ in monitor, buy a CRT.

(3 seconds looking on an online store)

CTX F973L 19" 12ms
Viewsonic VX912 19" 12ms
LG Electronics L1980U 19" 12ms
LG L1915S 19" 12ms
Belinea 101906 19" 15ms

I'm sure there are many many more, and wouldn't be suprised to see sub 12ms
screens if searching a little harder.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

I guess I have to change the title to "LCD industry cannot
make 16- ms response time and .294- mm dot pitch for 19+ in
LCD." Dot pitch is another concern. For all the models you
guys suggested. They have a dot pitch of .294mm. Look at
the monitor you claim to have, the dot (smallest unit for
the panel) looks big.

You won't find a 19+ inch monitor with both a response time
of 16ms or better and a dot pitch of .294 or smaller, except
the 23 inch SONY SDM-P234/B, which has 16ms and .258mm. But
it's simply too expensive for most of us.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

angry wrote:

> I guess I have to change the title to "LCD industry cannot
> make 16- ms response time and .294- mm dot pitch for 19+ in
> LCD."

Of course they can. Just show them a _market_ for a 19" LCD with a
resolution higher than 1280x1024.

> Dot pitch is another concern.

Actually, with an LCD "dot pitch" is meaningless. Look at the native
resolution, which is what controls the "dot pitch".

> For all the models you
> guys suggested. They have a dot pitch of .294mm. Look at
> the monitor you claim to have, the dot (smallest unit for
> the panel) looks big.

Forget the "dot". What resolution do you _want_ to run on the thing? The
next step up from 1280x1024 is normally 1600x1200 and that looks pretty
tiny on a 19" monitor.

> You won't find a 19+ inch monitor with both a response time
> of 16ms or better and a dot pitch of .294 or smaller, except
> the 23 inch SONY SDM-P234/B, which has 16ms and .258mm. But
> it's simply too expensive for most of us.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"angry" <angry@lcd.com> wrote in message
news:kavu015ec6p8krq3efjtv1k7o3ennv1lkk@4ax.com...
>I guess I have to change the title to "LCD industry cannot
> make 16- ms response time and .294- mm dot pitch for 19+ in
> LCD." Dot pitch is another concern. For all the models you
> guys suggested. They have a dot pitch of .294mm. Look at
> the monitor you claim to have, the dot (smallest unit for
> the panel) looks big.
>
> You won't find a 19+ inch monitor with both a response time
> of 16ms or better and a dot pitch of .294 or smaller, except
> the 23 inch SONY SDM-P234/B, which has 16ms and .258mm. But
> it's simply too expensive for most of us.

I seriously would suggest you go and have a look at some of those screens
'in the flesh' - I've gone from a 19" Sony Trinitron CRT with a dotpitch of
0.24 to a 19" LCD with a dot pitch of 0.294 and I honestly hand on heart
cannot see any problems - maybe if the LCD were able to run at a higher
resolution than 1280*1024 then it would be a problem and the dots would be
noticeable, but as it is, without putting my face right up to the screen, I
cannot see the individual elements of the screen.

Running an image editing app and setting the document to 1280*1024, then
placing my face right up to the screen, I can confirm that each single pixel
I draw is exactly matched to a single dot on the screen.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Here is one on sale even, at Buy.com

Acer AL1914SMD 19" Silver LCD Display - Speakers, 500:1, 1280x1024, 12MS,
DVI & D-sub - ET.L2302.109
Dot Pitch / Pixel Pitch - 0.294 mm
12ms
$349 - no rebate - free shipping


http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10392705&dcaid=1688

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Nerevar wrote:
> I seriously would suggest you go and have a look at some of those
> screens 'in the flesh' - I've gone from a 19" Sony Trinitron CRT with
> a dotpitch of 0.24 to a 19" LCD with a dot pitch of 0.294 and I honestly
> hand on
> heart cannot see any problems - maybe if the LCD were able to run at
> a higher resolution than 1280*1024 then it would be a problem and the
> dots would be noticeable, but as it is, without putting my face right
> up to the screen, I cannot see the individual elements of the screen.
>
> Running an image editing app and setting the document to 1280*1024,
> then placing my face right up to the screen, I can confirm that each
> single pixel I draw is exactly matched to a single dot on the screen.

I currently have a Sony G400 (19" CRT), and run 1600x1200@85Hz. It's
outstanding quality. I'd like to have a look at some LCDs but I'd hate to
drop resolution which would mean buying a 20" LCD.

With an LCD you multiply the dot pitch by the resolution and the is the
dimension of your panel. With a CRT it's not really as distinct as that.
Dot pitch of .24 and a resolution of 1600x1200 thats 384x288mm, or
diagonally, 480mm = 18.9". Since my viewable diagonal is probably around
18", I'm probably pushing my luck by around 5%.

Ben
--
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Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

 

[Todd]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

You MUST understand that the .294 dot pitch is DICTATED by the dimensions of the LCD
screen. That is for 19" there are physically 1280 individual pixels across the screen and
1024 from bottom to top.

17" LCDs have a finer dot pitch because 17" diagonally is 2" smaller than 19".

I've often thought manufacturers could save some money and get more screens from a
production run if they made the 19" LCDs to a resolution of 1280x960, which is the proper
4x3 aspect ratio.
--
Todd

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:32:49 GMT, "Todd" <abc@123.net>
wrote:

>
>You MUST understand that the .294 dot pitch is DICTATED by the dimensions of the LCD
>screen. That is for 19" there are physically 1280 individual pixels across the screen and
>1024 from bottom to top.

If you say 19" LCD will always have .294 mm as its dot
pitch, then I don't. My understanding is dot pitch is
independent. If it goes lower, we get a sharper image out
of the same size panel.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

angry wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:32:49 GMT, "Todd" <abc@123.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>You MUST understand that the .294 dot pitch is DICTATED by the dimensions
>>of the LCD screen. That is for 19" there are physically 1280 individual
>>pixels across the screen and 1024 from bottom to top.
>
> If you say 19" LCD will always have .294 mm as its dot
> pitch, then I don't. My understanding is dot pitch is
> independent. If it goes lower, we get a sharper image out
> of the same size panel.

Your understanding is flawed. Run an LCD at anything but its design
resolution and there is degradation in sharpness. Running a 1600x1200 LCD
at 1280x1024 the result is _not_ as good as that achieved with an otherwise
identical LCD with a native resolution of 1280x1024. Running at 1600x1200
everything is not "sharper", it's just smaller until you play with the
display settings and when you do that then you screw up the formatting in a
lot of menus and the like, and the icons, in Windows anyway, come in only a
few fixed sizes, so they end up either too big or too small.

LCDs are not CRTs. Do not assume that they have the same selection
considerations.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

>>>You MUST understand that the .294 dot pitch is DICTATED by the dimensions
>>>of the LCD screen. That is for 19" there are physically 1280 individual
>>>pixels across the screen and 1024 from bottom to top.
>>
>> If you say 19" LCD will always have .294 mm as its dot
>> pitch, then I don't. My understanding is dot pitch is
>> independent. If it goes lower, we get a sharper image out
>> of the same size panel.
>
> Your understanding is flawed. Run an LCD at anything but its design
> resolution and there is degradation in sharpness. Running a 1600x1200 LCD
> at 1280x1024 the result is _not_ as good as that achieved with an
> otherwise
> identical LCD with a native resolution of 1280x1024. Running at 1600x1200
> everything is not "sharper", it's just smaller until you play with the
> display settings and when you do that then you screw up the formatting in
> a
> lot of menus and the like, and the icons, in Windows anyway, come in only
> a
> few fixed sizes, so they end up either too big or too small.
>
> LCDs are not CRTs. Do not assume that they have the same selection
> considerations.

I think you're the one who misunderstands. Saying the .294 mm dot pitch
(and therefore the resolution)
is dictated by the 19" size is ridiculous. If the manufacturer decreases
the dot pitch, the native resolution
will go up. .294 is not a magic number. It can be decreased independent of
the screen size. If makers
come out with .25 dot pitch screens, they can use the .25 dot pitch on any
size LCD they like.

Tom Lake

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Nerevar" <monk@mink.monk> wrote in message news:<CxKPd.13539$8B3.2252@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
> "angry" <angry@lcd.com> wrote in message
> news:22js01lo4ab07e1t9oa0c149nb167rts1l@4ax.com...
> > LCD industry leaders like Samsung and Sony cannot make 16-
> > ms response time a reality for 19+ in LCD.
> >
> > Do you see any LCD with a 16ms response time or better for
> > 19+ inch LCD from them? No. The industry isn't capable to
> > make it.
> >
> > When coming to 19+ in monitor, buy a CRT.
>
> (3 seconds looking on an online store)
>
> CTX F973L 19" 12ms
> Viewsonic VX912 19" 12ms
> LG Electronics L1980U 19" 12ms
> LG L1915S 19" 12ms
> Belinea 101906 19" 15ms
>
> I'm sure there are many many more, and wouldn't be suprised to see sub 12ms
> screens if searching a little harder.

Anyone want to post a review on the new Samsung 915N? (8MS)

As far as I know from reading though, reponse times are only a small
indication of the monitors performance. Check out tomshardware and
anandtech for recent reviews. Plus, they don't always state what the
reponse times are measured for -white to black, etc. Anyone can make
the numbers look good on paper.

Good luck finding a CRT in a computer store lately..took a browse
through and only 2 19" crt's to pick from. (And two isle's of LCD
panels) Ugh.

 

[Thomas]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Tom Lake wrote:
>>>> You MUST understand that the .294 dot pitch is DICTATED by the
>>>> dimensions of the LCD screen. That is for 19" there are physically
>>>> 1280 individual pixels across the screen and 1024 from bottom to
>>>> top.
>
> I think you're the one who misunderstands. Saying the .294 mm dot
> pitch (and therefore the resolution)
> is dictated by the 19" size is ridiculous. If the manufacturer
> decreases the dot pitch, the native resolution
> will go up. .294 is not a magic number. It can be decreased
> independent of the screen size. If makers
> come out with .25 dot pitch screens, they can use the .25 dot pitch
> on any size LCD they like.

He's not saying a 19" will always have .294, he's saying that if you have a
19" screen, and a 1280.1024 resolution, you have .294 dp. And he's right.

--
Thomas

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Tom Lake wrote:

>>>>You MUST understand that the .294 dot pitch is DICTATED by the
>>>>dimensions of the LCD screen. That is for 19" there are physically 1280
>>>>individual pixels across the screen and 1024 from bottom to top.
>>>
>>> If you say 19" LCD will always have .294 mm as its dot
>>> pitch, then I don't. My understanding is dot pitch is
>>> independent. If it goes lower, we get a sharper image out
>>> of the same size panel.
>>
>> Your understanding is flawed. Run an LCD at anything but its design
>> resolution and there is degradation in sharpness. Running a 1600x1200
>> LCD at 1280x1024 the result is _not_ as good as that achieved with an
>> otherwise
>> identical LCD with a native resolution of 1280x1024. Running at
>> 1600x1200 everything is not "sharper", it's just smaller until you play
>> with the display settings and when you do that then you screw up the
>> formatting in a
>> lot of menus and the like, and the icons, in Windows anyway, come in only
>> a
>> few fixed sizes, so they end up either too big or too small.
>>
>> LCDs are not CRTs. Do not assume that they have the same selection
>> considerations.
>
> I think you're the one who misunderstands. Saying the .294 mm dot pitch
> (and therefore the resolution)
> is dictated by the 19" size is ridiculous. If the manufacturer decreases
> the dot pitch, the native resolution
> will go up. .294 is not a magic number. It can be decreased independent
> of
> the screen size. If makers
> come out with .25 dot pitch screens, they can use the .25 dot pitch on any
> size LCD they like.

Well, if they use it on a 19" monitor with the standard 4:3 aspect ratio
then they'll end up with 1505x1128. Would _you_ buy a monitor with that
native resolution?

The dot pitch is dictated by the native resolution and by the screen
dimensions. If for a given physical screen size the dot pitch is made
smaller, then the native resolution necessarily increases. That's simple
geometry. If the native resolution is one that is not widely supported by
standard video boards, then even if they can be made to support it doing so
is enough of a nuisance to kill the market for such a display, so the
manufacturers make them in standard resolutions.

> Tom Lake

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)