Let me count the ways

Lance

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Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

In another thread, a the subject of the number of possible class
combinations came up, and I started wondering.

At first blush, it seems an easy enough thing to calculate. There are
20 classes, so my first guess was 20*19*18. 6840, thats a lot of
possibilities.

But thats not right.

Because there aren't 20 classes, there are only 9, the other 11 are
prestige classes, and you can't take them as your first class.

So... 9*19*18=3078

Thats much closer to right. But still wrong.

See, you don't have to triple class, you can double or single. So
that original formula should have been in part 20+(20*19), or in other
words, 20*20*20 is the final formula, 8000 possibilities.

Making this new number 9*20*20=3600

But of course that assumes you can do ALL class combinations. You
can't. At first, alignment restictions seem to let out quite a few,
but after seeing Aribeth in HOTU, I made my own Paladin/Blackguard, so
I know thats not really a problem; you change alignment during play if
you want to do the more unusual combinations, thats all.

There -are- however, race restrictions to consider. All Arcane
Archers must be Elves or Half Elves. Not that that lets out much,
except that All Dwarven Defenders must be Dwarves. So the AA/DD
combinations are all out (all 9 of them... except that in a moment
you'll see there are only three anyway)

But thats not the biggest restiction. More subtle than that are the
class requirements. Arcane Archers must have at least one level of
bard, sorcerer, or wizard. This means only 3 of the 9 original
classes will work as the first class. Pale Masters have the same
restriction. Red Dragon Disciples are even more restricted; only
bards and sorcerers qualify. Worst of all, Shifters: only Druids can
ever become shifters.

And since you must be a druid before becoming a shifter and an arcane
capable class before becoming a AA, PM, or RDD, there will be no
combinations at all including one of those three plus a shifter.

I didn't pursue this any further, its possible that some of the other
prestige classes require so many levels in some classes, or so much
expentiture in feats or something that they preclude certain other
prestige classes or that only a limited set of classes can qualify for
them; for example, can you ever be both a shadowdancer and a weapon
master without first being some kind of melee oriented character, or
some stealth oriented one? I dunno.

But assuming just the above restrictions apply, I count:

9 single classes

72 dual class using only original classes
72 dual class using original class plus prestige class
total 144 possible dual class combinations

504 triple class with original classes only
576 triple class using original, original, prestige
256 triple class using original, prestige, prestige
total 1336 triple class combinations

Grand total of 1489 possible combinations

With only the original NWN game, you'd only see 9+72+504=585
possibilities, SOU would put you much closer as most of the prestige
classes are found there, with only a few more added with HOTU

Too, many of these combinations would be fairly stupid, as (for
example) the wizard/sorcerer splits his prime stat into two, and gets
only low level spells in each rather than getting to the higher level
spells by remaining single class. But that doesn't mean they are
impossible.

Fun to think about

Lance
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Lance wrote:
> 9 single classes
>
> 72 dual class using only original classes
> 72 dual class using original class plus prestige class
> total 144 possible dual class combinations
>
> 504 triple class with original classes only
> 576 triple class using original, original, prestige
> 256 triple class using original, prestige, prestige
> total 1336 triple class combinations
>
> Grand total of 1489 possible combinations


Well, there are 11 core classes (barbarian, bard, cleric, druid,
fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, wizard). There are 11
official prestige classes (if both SoU and HotU are installed: arcane
archer, assassin, blackguard, champion of Torm, dwarven defender, harper
scout, pale master, red dragon disciple, shadowdancer, shifter, weapon
master).

So the formula should be:

11 *
22 total classes - 1 first class slot + 1 null for single class *
22 total classes - 2 first two slots + 1 null for dual class =
11 * 22 * 21 = 5,082

However, that's simplified, as you point out, so...

11 core single class possibilities, plus

11*10 = 110 core/core dual classes, plus

6 + 2 + 1 + (7*11) = 86 core/prestige classes, plus

11 * 10 * 9 = 990 core/core/core classes, plus

86 * 10 = 860 core/prestige/core classes, plus

Err...I'm not going to make a chart, but your other numbers in the
triple class combos are off about 34%, so I'll guess 387 possible
core/prestige/prestige combinations.

Total is 2,444 possible class combinations. Then, there's race
restrictions, which effectively elimiate two PrCs to four of the seven
races. The other three races (dwarf, elf and half-elf) only get ten PrCs
each. So the actual numbers are probably pretty close to your calculations.

Less than half the original figure I calculated, but still far too many
to adequately prepare for in advance in a scripted adventure... :)
--
Barry Scott Will
Pyric RPG Publications
http://www.pyric.com/

If you insist on emailing me, remove all the **JUNK** first
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:27:11 GMT, Barry Scott Will scrawled:

> Well, there are 11 core classes (barbarian, bard, cleric, druid,
> fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, wizard). There are 11
> official prestige classes (if both SoU and HotU are installed: arcane
> archer, assassin, blackguard, champion of Torm, dwarven defender, harper
> scout, pale master, red dragon disciple, shadowdancer, shifter, weapon
> master).

*snippage*

Does this take into account the restrictions that some classes place on
multiclassing? :)

--
http://www.rexx.co.uk

To email me, visit the site.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Rexx Magnus" <trashcan@uk2.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94CB5EE2492C0rexxdeansaund@130.133.1.4...
> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:27:11 GMT, Barry Scott Will scrawled:
>
> > Well, there are 11 core classes (barbarian, bard, cleric, druid,
> > fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, wizard). There are 11
> > official prestige classes (if both SoU and HotU are installed: arcane
> > archer, assassin, blackguard, champion of Torm, dwarven defender, harper
> > scout, pale master, red dragon disciple, shadowdancer, shifter, weapon
> > master).
>
> *snippage*
>
> Does this take into account the restrictions that some classes place on
> multiclassing? :)

Which ones do that other than the alignment?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:21:44 GMT, Insane Ranter scrawled:

>> Does this take into account the restrictions that some classes place on
>> multiclassing? :)
>
> Which ones do that other than the alignment?
>

Ok, perhaps I got a bit confused there. :)

--
http://www.rexx.co.uk

To email me, visit the site.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Barry Scott Will <nwn**JUNK**@cavecreations.net> wrote in message news:<z43fc.133563$w54.878352@attbi_s01>...
> Lance wrote:
11 single classes

110 dual class using only original classes
86 dual class using original class plus prestige class
total 196 possible dual class combinations

990 triple class with original classes only
860 triple class using original, original, prestige
298 triple class using original, prestige, prestige
total triple class combinations
> >
> > Grand total of 2148 possible combinations
>
>
> Well, there are 11 core classes (barbarian, bard, cleric, druid,
> fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, wizard). There are 11
> official prestige classes (if both SoU and HotU are installed: arcane
> archer, assassin, blackguard, champion of Torm, dwarven defender, harper
> scout, pale master, red dragon disciple, shadowdancer, shifter, weapon
> master).
>
Youch, I left out sorcerer and wizard when counting originals, because
they wrapped onto the next page!

> So the formula should be:
>
> 11 *
> 22 total classes - 1 first class slot + 1 null for single class *
> 22 total classes - 2 first two slots + 1 null for dual class =
> 11 * 22 * 21 = 5,082
>
> However, that's simplified, as you point out, so...
>
> 11 core single class possibilities, plus
>
right
> 11*10 = 110 core/core dual classes, plus
>
right
> 6 + 2 + 1 + (7*11) = 86 core/prestige classes, plus
>
yep
> 11 * 10 * 9 = 990 core/core/core classes, plus
>
yep
> 86 * 10 = 860 core/prestige/core classes, plus
>
yep

> Err...I'm not going to make a chart, but your other numbers in the
> triple class combos are off about 34%, so I'll guess 387 possible
> core/prestige/prestige combinations.
plugged 11s into my chart where I had 9s, and came up with 298

> Total is 2,444 possible class combinations. Then, there's race
> restrictions, which effectively elimiate two PrCs to four of the seven
> races. The other three races (dwarf, elf and half-elf) only get ten PrCs
> each. So the actual numbers are probably pretty close to your calculations.
>
I'd already left these out in the chart, its pretty simple since it
just means No arcane archer/dwarven defender builds work. If we were
trying to count combinations for each race it would be a bit trickier,
but since we are just trying to get max possible class combos, its not
necessary to think about which combo's elves can be versus dwarves can
be versus humans et al can be. IF there was no racial restriction (or
if you have a custom half elf/half dwarf race and half dwarf is set up
to qualify for DD), there would be 3 more possible builds.

> Less than half the original figure I calculated, but still far too many
> to adequately prepare for in advance in a scripted adventure... :)

2148 is pretty close for not doing the damned chart... and lots closer
than my 1489 calculation using wrong data. On the bright side, all
three answers -and- your original 5000 estimate are all in the same
order of magnitude; back when I used to do math with a slide rule that
went wrong more than anything!

Lance
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Rexx Magnus <trashcan@uk2.net> wrote in news:Xns94CB7515A7983rexxdeansaund@
130.133.1.4:

> Ok, perhaps I got a bit confused there. :)
>

There is such a thing as preferred class (not applicable to humans), but
that only makes it more difficult to multiclass (experience point penalty).