Discussion Let's talk about cases...........modern version.

Darkbreeze · Mar 1, 2023

So, anybody who has been a member for more than two days almost certainly knows who I am. I am not somebody who often creates "Discussion" posts, because there is rarely anything I want to discuss about hardware outside of Moderator or Ambassador discussions. Cases have begun to evolve however and this is having a direct impact on cooling designs, coolers, case cooling peformance and hardware FITMENT in general.

Anybody who has been a part of the industry for any length of time knows that Lian Li has for longer than almost anybody else been always in the middle or forefront of any discussion regarding cases of high quality or cutting edge design, and the last couple of years has really brought them back to relevance especially with the advent of the 011 and it's derivative designs. But there have been some others recently with very innovative designs of their own. Some are PURELY original and some are very clearly borrowing from the fundamentals of the 011 models. So why this discussion? To look at some of your own PERSONAL data, and also tweaks that might be fundamentally YOURS, to see if there are significant deviations from what we know ONLY gets tested using stock hardware (Meaning, the case fans and configurations that the case comes with from out of the box) rather than what might be WILDLY different using better fans, better coolers, minor modifications (Or major ones too!) or other changeable factors that cause the results to lie outside the realm of what anybody would ever see during the course of a standard review that is only intended to disclose a measurable and relatable performance score that depends entirely on JUST using what the case comes with.

Because THAT is what places like Tom's hardware, Gamers Nexus, Anandtech, Techspot, KitGuru and others do. They test STOCK case performance. They generally don't include better fans. They generally ONLY include AIO hardware that they can DIRECTLY compare to other cases they've used the SAME AIO cooler in, rather than maybe same case with newer or better cooler. They generally ONLY include test results from a "standard hardware profile" that includes the same CPU, memory, graphics card, etc. that they used on whatever other cases they are trying to compare THIS case's performance against. All of which, does not get somebody to "this is what you want" in many situations.

So, for anybody that is willing to do so, and I would HOPE you would have some kind of data, whether incidental or empirical, to go with it. I'd like to hear about what people are doing and leave this as an open discussion that isn't just for moderators, or ambassadors, but to anybody. Keep in mind, if you're not playing ball and being civil, you WILL get bounced. No exceptions. So, let's talk about case cooling IF you have something honestly contributory to say. Also, doesn't matter where you are from. Any country, might be relevant. Especially for other people in your country who are limited by certain hardware choices. If you are a reviewer on another site, your information and contributions are definitely welcome. If you are simply an unbound enthusiast, you are most important of all.

I'll respond to any and all posts as time allows and thank you to anybody who contributes, even if that is only to ask another question. Totally ok. No particular limiting rules in that regard, unlike my PSU thread.

geofelt · Mar 1, 2023

One aspect of cases that is not talked about is the depth of the case.
Depth is of interest to me because my space allows about 17" max depth.
Some time ago, I bought a Silverstone TJ-08E which is 15.2" deep:

TJ08-E

In 2006, SilverStone launched the Temjin TJ08, an impressive micro-ATX tower case with then unheard of dual 120mm fan configuration. It helped pioneered the idea of big tower cooling performance in small packages. Five years later, improved technology and design has enabled SilverStone...

www.silverstonetek.com

Over the years, I used several MATX motherboards along with increasingly stronger processors.
I have always used air cooling, namely Noctua NH-D15.
The front 180mm fan provided all the airflow needed.
A easily removeable/washable front filter kept the parts clean.
One does not need a big case and many fans to get sufficient airflow.
I also liked the dvd drive capability which modern cases no longer usually have.

When LGA1700 came around, there were no MATX motherboards to be found.
Being impatient, I bought a ATX sized Coolermaster HAF XB EVO:
https://www.newegg.com/black-cooler-master-haf-series-atx-desktop/p/N82E16811119265
16.7" barely made my depth limit.
As it turns out, it is one of the easiest cases to work with. That is good.
One of the features is two hot swap external drive bays.
That allows external backups and easy removal for offsite storage.
I do not see that capability any more.

Darkbreeze · Mar 1, 2023

Right. Because most modern cases are specifically purpose-driven, and that purpose is almost exclusively targeted directly at AIO cooling or "pretty pretty" RGB factors, along with tempered glass and hidden PSU compartments. Those are all fine and good for most people, but they are not the kinds of features true enthusiasts are looking for, for sure. These are for gamer kiddies or rich boys who just want it to look nice sitting on a desk when their friends come over.

What piqued my interest in talking about some of the more enthusiast friendly features and designs, as well as maybe some lesser known tweaks and modifications that users may have been able to uniquely identify through their own endeavors, is this Gamers Nexus video showing that a relative newcomer to the case scene took the primary fundamental design of the 011 dynamic and improved upon it, with very little effort, but fairly decent improvements. That got me thinking that there might be a lot of small details involved in the configurations of cases, the performance differences (Obviously, we know there will be) when you swap out the stock case fans and/or change up the fan configuration by using more OF them or LESS of them, as the case may be, and so on, that users have been able to fully confirm as beneficial through their own empirical testing. These are things I'd like to look at and talk about because for one, it benefits everybody, and for two, I'm thinking of creating an entirely from scratch DIY case and am in the very early stages of deciding the how, what and why of the design phase.

Nothing commercial. Just because it's the kind of thing we do as enthusiasts and rather than simply thinking you already know it all seems a good idea to talk to others with similar interest to see what they've done and what has, or has not worked for them. Member Phaaze is one such person that I know has done a lot of different stuff with his cases, fans and coolers, of which he has a pretty fair number all the way around. But again, just because what he has done, in a particular case, has worked for him, does not mean that for everybody, with every type of hardware or cooling they put into that same case, or especially if there is a different case involved that maybe affects those results, that the results are going to be the same or even similar. A drive in the way, some cables in the way, a slower RPM exhaust fan, fans with lower static pressure, ANY of these plus dozens of other factors could all have an effect that is wildly different from the "stock" performance you are fed by the review sites for any given case.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL5uttjPWZE

Eximo · Mar 1, 2023

Not sure what the future of PC cooling is at this point. Huge air coolers and mid-range AIO can barely keep the high end CPUs at max boost. (Not that they should, but that is what people go for) But in using AIO they take a lot of the cooling away from the VRM heatsinks. Though those have been growing more efficient it seems and VRM fans have once again disappeared for the most part.

As you mention, cramming them into all glass cases isn't helping things.

In my last few gaming builds I have found myself doing rear intake with top mounted radiators and have always found positive results. VRM temperatures drop significantly. A cheap magnetic fan filter added to the rear keeps the radiator clean.

Not so much cases, but I do have this idea in my mind of a 3d printed shroud that fits around an AIO's, or waterblock's, tubes and lets you mount a 120mm fan as a down draft cooler for the VRMs. There are few AIO with fans on the block, but I think that should be more standardized.

My more radical idea would have to be a new standard and make for some weird chassis, customer confusion. DTX didn't really take off and the existing Mini-ITX with riser cable more or less fills the role and Intel's NUC concept also fills it, so I don't think there is much of a market.

Concept. Given how much real estate GPUs take up when installed: reverse the PCIe slot so that it comes out the back of the board, at a 90 degree so that the GPU can be installed with its backplate to the back of the motherboard. (Yes, this does screw up all the blow through designs that have been the standard the last few generations)

Typical ATX board has 7 slots, 3 or 4 get taken over by a large GPU. Leaving room for maybe 1 or 2 small expansion cards but also covering up access to M.2 slots. If we also make the remaining slots at 90 degrees on something about the size of a Micro ATX board, it would be possible to keep the width the same while allowing for full access to the top side of the motherboard and room to install at least 4 expansion slots worth of stuff. Sort of like old true desktops with 90 degree risers for all the expansion cards. but with the added GPU on the back/underneath the motherboard tray.

Typical case is about 190mm from the base of the motherboard to the side panel. Call it 200mm. Cases have room behind the tray which is another 35 mm or so. We can drop that to about 80-100 mm and still have room for four horizontal expansion slots With another 80mm on the rear of the case for the GPU expansion slots. (Also comfortably fits SFX power supplies, so that could be on the back as well.)

Overall thickness is the same and you only really give up some potential CPU cooling, but gain expansion slots. AIOs would be the solution there and for air coolers you could have a blower style fan with direct intake from above and exhaust out the rear over the I/O shield. Standard radiators would have to take up some slot space (120mm would could fit rather nicely) Dedicated radiator space would still be at the front, it would just have the motherboard bisecting it rather than mostly on one side of it. This motherboard tray mounted designs would also still be viable.

But the fun part comes for the enthusiasts. Water block on motherboard, water block on GPU, and you can bring the total thickness down to I/O shield plus GPU block height. Power supply would have to be relocated to the front or back of the case, so it would get a little longer. So about 80mm total, or more logically 120mm plus so you can have radiators basically be part of the chassis and still fit the PSU in. Maybe keeping 1 or 2 expansion slots on the motherboard side.

kerberos_20 · Mar 1, 2023

Eximo said:
But in using AIO they take a lot of the cooling away from the VRM heatsinks. Though those have been growing more efficient it seems and VRM fans have once again disappeared for the most part.

vrms can take like 110C. but i would worry on mobos without any vrm heatsink combined with aio and some beefy CPU

Eximo · Mar 1, 2023

Which is quite common amongst OEMs. Pay for the upgraded CPU, get an anemic 120mm radiator and lose the cooling for the VRMs.

Darkbreeze · Mar 1, 2023

Eximo said:
Not sure what the future of PC cooling is at this point. Huge air coolers and mid-range AIO can barely keep the high end CPUs at max boost. (Not that they should, but that is what people go for) But in using AIO they take a lot of the cooling away from the VRM heatsinks. Though those have been growing more efficient it seems and VRM fans have once again disappeared for the most part.

As you mention, cramming them into all glass cases isn't helping things.

In my last few gaming builds I have found myself doing rear intake with top mounted radiators and have always found positive results. VRM temperatures drop significantly. A cheap magnetic fan filter added to the rear keeps the radiator clean.

Not so much cases, but I do have this idea in my mind of a 3d printed shroud that fits around an AIO's, or waterblock's, tubes and lets you mount a 120mm fan as a down draft cooler for the VRMs. There are few AIO with fans on the block, but I think that should be more standardized.

My more radical idea would have to be a new standard and make for some weird chassis, customer confusion. DTX didn't really take off and the existing Mini-ITX with riser cable more or less fills the role and Intel's NUC concept also fills it, so I don't think there is much of a market.

Concept. Given how much real estate GPUs take up when installed: reverse the PCIe slot so that it comes out the back of the board, at a 90 degree so that the GPU can be installed with its backplate to the back of the motherboard. (Yes, this does screw up all the blow through designs that have been the standard the last few generations)

Typical ATX board has 7 slots, 3 or 4 get taken over by a large GPU. Leaving room for maybe 1 or 2 small expansion cards but also covering up access to M.2 slots. If we also make the remaining slots at 90 degrees on something about the size of a Micro ATX board, it would be possible to keep the width the same while allowing for full access to the top side of the motherboard and room to install at least 4 expansion slots worth of stuff. Sort of like old true desktops with 90 degree risers for all the expansion cards. but with the added GPU on the back/underneath the motherboard tray.

Typical case is about 190mm from the base of the motherboard to the side panel. Call it 200mm. Cases have room behind the tray which is another 35 mm or so. We can drop that to about 80-100 mm and still have room for four horizontal expansion slots With another 80mm on the rear of the case for the GPU expansion slots. (Also comfortably fits SFX power supplies, so that could be on the back as well.)

Overall thickness is the same and you only really give up some potential CPU cooling, but gain expansion slots. AIOs would be the solution there and for air coolers you could have a blower style fan with direct intake from above and exhaust out the rear over the I/O shield. Standard radiators would have to take up some slot space (120mm would could fit rather nicely) Dedicated radiator space would still be at the front, it would just have the motherboard bisecting it rather than mostly on one side of it. This motherboard tray mounted designs would also still be viable.

But the fun part comes for the enthusiasts. Water block on motherboard, water block on GPU, and you can bring the total thickness down to I/O shield plus GPU block height. Power supply would have to be relocated to the front or back of the case, so it would get a little longer. So about 80mm total, or more logically 120mm plus so you can have radiators basically be part of the chassis and still fit the PSU in. Maybe keeping 1 or 2 expansion slots on the motherboard side.

See, I like this post and will respond more to it later today or this evening. Some interesting considerations here.

Crosslhs82x2 · Mar 2, 2023

Hi Darkbreeze / Guy's
I rebuilt my system with a full custom loop in a new case.
The new case is aThermaltake Core x71
A few things that could help;
On the front of case the multi fan grids where the 120's mount block air for
140/200 mm rad/fans so having a insert for your size of fan/rad would help when running larger rad/fans.
Kinda like a few of the newer case's have for top mount rads.
My mod was to use a Dremel and take out the 120 grid for my front mounted 420 rad.
There is still some blockage from the narrow side to side support bars but those don't block anywhere near the amount of air that the 120 grid was.

On top mount rad/fans on several Thermaltake cases the rads/fans are mounted starting left of center which leaves open grid based on the size of fan/rad you are running.
So a block off panel of some sort or magnetic screen to size would block off any unfilter grids around fans/rads based on the size being ran.
1 problem with plastic block off panels would be the various outer width sizes of rads/fans.
A Hwlabs 360 rad I looked at was 133mm wide where a Alphacool NexXxoS 360 Hpe was 124mm.

My son's rig is in a Thermaltake F31 Suppressor and at the time had a Corsair H110i 280mm mounted up top with the case able to house 2x200mm fans, so everywhere there was open grid it was unfiltered air if you pull the magnetic filter off to help exhaust air.
Well thats the way we were running it until 1 of my son's pet rabbit hair's came across the room and was sucked into the top of the unfiltered open grid holes.
If I hadn't been sitting right there at that time, I would still be trying to figure out where it got in, not even thinking about the open grid. You would think it should've got caught in the exhaust air stream instead of being sucked in.

It took me a long time to think of someway to block those open grids.
My mod was to cut some acoustical foam to the size needed to block those open grids secured with push throw and bendover paper fastners. It now stays cleaner and a little quieter.
Sure I could've cut the magnetic filter to fit but now he has my almost 2yr old H150i Elite Capellix 360, so I would still have the problem if I would've cut it for a 280mm.

To me case manufacturers are making their various case's to 1 size fits all applications which we know won't always work for everyone the same and We are left to find ways to perfect them to our wants/needs.

I Hope there is something that I have added that can help.
Take Good Care Everybody!!!!!!!!

Darkbreeze · Mar 2, 2023

Yes, it's been a longtime practice among many modders to remove restrictive grids etc. from fan locations, especially intakes. It improves overall airflow, usually, and also usually improves sound levels as any kind of design is going to have an effect on sounds. Now, that being said, it's also supposedly a "thing" that some designs/designed shapes like those found on the front of some Fractal cases are supposedly optimized for reducing sound but I am really skeptical about that. It's hard to imagine any fan being quieter or moving more air than when there is simply nothing in front of it or behind it.

Totally on board with making sure that any opening a fan is installed into might fully surround the actual mouth of the fan so that you largely eliminate reversion leaks and ensure that there is less chance of unwanted exhaust flow moving backwards and contaminating the intake charge. I've done this with several front panel case modifications I've done as seen below, and it works extremely well. Much better than with front panels that are simply a bunch of openings and slots with nothing to prevent reversion but it's also not always an incredibly easy thing to make or implement because of the way many front panels attach to the case frame. Still always worth looking at doing though if you are looking for minor tweaks that might offer some minimal improvements to airflow and noise levels.

So, for example, this is the stock configuration of the older Cooler Master Storm enforcer case. Room/design for only a single 200mm megaflow fan, plus upper drive bays and lots of room for inversion. Not to mention, less overall airflow surface area than with two 140mm fans and definitely less static pressure as the large 200mm fans basically none of them have good SP specs at all.

So with a piece of sheet metal, a dremel and a can of paint, we can easily do this which has vastly improved the intake situation on this case and while you completely lose those drive bays, who cares. Practically no cases come with them these days anyhow and for most people there is no need for them. The benefits greatly outweigh that loss.

Also completely changed the side panel, which is not relevant, but looks much better than the very small glass it originally came with. It flows very well now as my nephews gaming system and for particularly intense sessions if thermals ever need a little more improvement the upper door can still be swung open to reduce restriction and increase direct airflow, but so far that has never been an issue.

Clearly this is probably not feasible for every case out there but I think some form of shaping by blocking off any unnecessary openings around the fans themselves is at least marginally possible on basically any case and should offer at least minimal improvements to airflow and noise levels. Some fan manufacturers are even actually offering products intended to this exact thing.

Eximo · Mar 2, 2023

I've only cut a few tabs off my current case to fit my weird pump/res/rad combo. I also tend to remove top fan filters when it is set up for exhaust as there is little need for that extra restriction and dust won't fall in. Would take a lot of fabrication to cover all the vents the case has to get more directed airflow. But since I use radiators the key part is to keep the flow going. Passive outlet can only help there.

Only other interesting thing that comes to mind are cool air intakes for air cooled GPUs. Remove all your remaining slot covers, build a shroud that forces the GPU to pull air in from the rear of the chassis (you can even put a fan there) This has been show to work well. Some OEMs do this by making a shroud to direct air from a chassis side or top panel vent directly into the GPU. Also saw someone 3d print a shroud that turned their lower front intake fan into a cold air intake for only the GPU.

Always makes me wonder why they haven't made a more standard design that makes the GPU a complete flow through. Or a chassis designed specifically for fanless data center GPUs with intake and exhaust fans front to back. They now sell fanless waterblocked graphics cards, so its not like they are liable if people forget they need additional equipment to make it work.

hotaru.hino · Mar 2, 2023

Eximo said:
Always makes me wonder why they haven't made a more standard design that makes the GPU a complete flow through. Or a chassis designed specifically for fanless data center GPUs with intake and exhaust fans front to back. They now sell fanless waterblocked graphics cards, so its not like they are liable if people forget they need additional equipment to make it work.

What I don't get is why video card heat sink fins are always going side to side instead of front to back. The only one I'm aware of in recent memory that did this was MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X. I'd imagine this would at least help force air out the back. And while sure, there's the possibility of the front of the card fighting with the case intake, I'm sure there are ways you could influence the airflow so it favors going towards the back.

Not that it really matters now since the front most part of the card in NVIDIA cards these days tends to be "through flow"

Darkbreeze · Mar 2, 2023

I'm sort of interested in looking into the possibility of completely isolated separate chambers for the area that holds the graphics card, and the area that holds the CPU and VRMs. Seems like a lot more efficient job of cooling could be done if neither of those could be allowed to have any residual effect on the other. Not sure how to go about that, but some kind of chambered partitioning ought to be possible with each having it's own pressure arrangement

Crosslhs82x2 · Mar 3, 2023

I do like what Corsair has done with the Front Psu Shroud piece to block/redirect the air coming in from the front bottom fan.
For my wife's Phanteks Enthoo Pro, I used A hair dyer and a piece of Lexan to

block the air from the front bottom fan just ending at the psu deadend
redirect the air by making more of a slope up towards the Gpu fans and some towards the Cpu cooler direction.

It wasn't done from the need to control temps but the deadend part really BUGS me.

You have me with the Air Chambers. I would like something myself to direct the exhaust from my front 420mm out it's own chimney instead of going into the case and then going up to my 360mm.
I do have 140mm of the 420 exhausting below the mid deck where my 280 x60mm rad is housed so there is only 280ish mm exhausting in to the center of the case.

https://imgur.com/a/vnbMzHP

View: https://imgur.com/a/vnbMzHP

I would Love to Have a 3D printer and could get 1 from the Denver Tech Micro Center, But not having enough Home time to learn the software manipulation needed to build parts for what I would want makes me think the cost is too much.

Later Guy's Have A Great Up Coming Weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cAllen · Mar 3, 2023

Simple and short, I prefer air cooling for simplicity, maintenance and cost. I stayed with that preference in my new high using a the Fractal Torrent and stock fans. I did however plug the fans into the board's individual headers instead of using the hub and installed a rear exhaust..."just in case". The results are outstanding and with the offset undervolt C23 sings like a fat lady. YMMV.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/new-rig.3767158/?view=date

Darkbreeze · Mar 3, 2023

And let's be honest here. I am almost singularly an air cooling guy. I've worked with AIO coolers enough. Did one custom loop for a guy. Just, not really my thing AND I have NOT seen a real need to do it unless you are seriously overclocking something OR are running being at the extreme and having to feel like an i9 is your only option. Everything else. Everything. I have had no problem cooling with half decent air. My 12700k that so many people have been crying about, not one issue using the same cooler that worked fine on my 6700k so long ago and I don't see it. I don't see the problem or the need for even an AIO on most stuff. If you want to overclock, the last three generations, or you want to push things, great, yes, I agree. Otherwise, I don' t see it. I don't see it. This 12700k at stock runs WAY, WAY cooler on my U14S than my 6700k did even at just 4.7Ghz all core. And it DOUBLES the performance, with the stock configuration, that my 6700k did with that overclock.

So, hard to complain, but obviously if we can do better it makes things work a little, better. Stock boosts last longer or go higher. Degradation obviously is decreased at lower temperatures even if some higher temperatures are "ok". It is what it is.

Phaaze88 · Mar 3, 2023

The top exhaust AIO/CLC doesn't always require a rear exhaust case fan. In some cases, it's more effective with only a dust filter there(the AIO is drawing air through), but then you might get looks of confusion or crazy from spouting nonsense...

Perhaps the generalization of 'in through the front/bottom/side, out the rear/top' needs to change. Perhaps it stops some from being able to think and try things out for themselves.

Chimney cases need to come back... but I've heard Silverstone has a patent on the design? That's a load of crap, if true.
The O11 Evo allows me to set one up AND put the gpu out the way. I've used construction paper to seal off the back, as I noticed air was leaking out that way, mounted the case on 2x4s to enhance bottom intake, and just did away with the bottom air filter.

Darkbreeze · Mar 3, 2023

Been interested in testing some of these theories out myself but need to get a case simply for on the bench testing to see. Would be worth it I think and of course I've had my case for many years. Might be time to do something new anyhow even though it all works just fine for me as is. Would like to get involved more in this kind of thing if I could just feel worth a crap for more than two days in a row. LOL.

Darkbreeze · Mar 4, 2023

I'll tell you what, if the specs on these new Arctic fans are even like 90% accurate, these might be getting ordered to test out and also getting recommended for a whole lot of builds because for 9 bucks these have 4.35mm H20 static pressure which is really good, only 20db SPL (I'll believe this one when I see the reviews or test them out. That's like, Noctua territory there, if they are giving that spec for max speed operation like Noctua does.) and max of 81CFM which is pretty damn high for a single 120mm fan. But, that's at a VERY high RPM too. I'd recommend people set these fans max at probably half of it's 3000RPM potential otherwise they're probably loud as the Noctua industrial fans are over 2000rpm.

I'm really interested for somebody to review them and see what they test out at with about 1500rpm on them in terms of static pressure, noise and volume. I'm betting they are still quite good and I mean for a NINE DOLLAR??? fan how can you complain at all? Plus, they look fine in most any build. No, they don't have RGB crap, and I say it's probably a good thing because most fans with any onboard RGB don't have very impressive specs at all.

New, and worth a look.

https://www.arctic.de/us/P12-Max/ACFAN00280A

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VDNKL4G

Crosslhs82x2 · Mar 4, 2023

If they perform as good as listed, they would be a Great purchase and would save me almost $200 replacing my Noctua's.
But (1 small problem for me ) I have yet to have a Noctua fail on me.
8x 140's and 3x 120's IPPC's approx $315 without any shipping.

Damm it's not broke so I can't fix It. LOL

But when 1 does I will buy a 5pack and replace 1 rad worth at a time (if they will still be doing 5pack at that time)
And repurpose the ippc elsewhere or give them to my friends as they are still running stock case fans in there TT 31 Views.

Thank You Darkbreeze!!!!!
Have A Great Weekend!!!!!

Crosslhs82x2 · Mar 4, 2023

Hopefully none of my Noctua 140's goes before Arctic comes out with a 140 max.

My Noctua fans have a much easier life now, the 120's are set @ 1306 rpm and the 140's are @ 1350 ish rpm except for the rear 140 it's at 800 And will experiment with a filter and flipping that 1 to intake
When home time is better.

Darkbreeze · Mar 4, 2023

For my personal main rig, I'd never use anything but Noctua, and ALL it has it in it is five NF-A14 chromax.black.swap 140mm fans. I have about twenty five Noctua fans around here. Various NF-F12's, A15's, A14's, some Redux models. NONE have ever failed. All have seen use in various systems, mostly multiple systems for years and years. In fact, I've never personally seen ANY Noctua fan I purchased and installed in ANY system, fail. Ever.

But, buying anywhere from three to six Noctua fans is quite expensive for the average person, who undoubtedly does not run their machine nearly as constantly or nearly as punishingly as I do my systems most the time. So for somebody I'm doing a build for that just wants a decent case fan that can do the job at a decent price, 36 bucks for four fans is hell of a lot more appealing than 110 bucks for four fans, which is what you're going to pay for four NF-A14s these days. Even as a good, inexpensive starting point, and then somebody could replace them one at a time over time with a better fan that maybe uses a higher quality longer life bearing or whatever, it's a good option. Anyhow, was just surprised to see that kind of specs on a 9 dollar fan.

CompuTronix · Mar 5, 2023

Hi DB,

Great Thread!

I won't go on about all the shortcomings I've found in Cases over the years, or all the airflow modifications I've devised, crafted and implemented on my favorite Cases to improve thermal performance.

However, to address the concerns regarding VRM temperatures that you and Eximo have expressed, whether using AIO or Air cooling, I've noted that all too often a fundamental item which is overlooked are the VRM Thermal Pads themselves, as well as the snugness of the actual heatsink screws on the back of the motherboard.

One of the first items on a build checklist is a close visual inspection of the motherboard, which may reveal that the OEM has left the VRM heatsink screws only finger-tight. For example, when we breadboard a build for initial staging for first powerup, we run our favorite steady-state 100% workload (P95 Small - No AVX) to evaluate various thermal performances, including VRMs, at which time the heatsink screws can be checked for snugness, and if necessary, carefully and gently tweaked to see if VRM temperature can be decreased.

Nonetheless, if VRM temperature is still too high, then my go-to fix is to replace the Thermal Pads with Thermal Grizzly "Minus Pad 8", which is an outstanding product. I've experienced VRM temperature decreases by as much as 20°C, similar to the decreases seen after an Intel CPU has been delidded and their Paste TIM (3rd - 8th Gen) has been replaced with TG Conductonaut liquid metal.

For those struggling with high VRM temperature, I strongly recommend replacing your OEM pads with TG Minus Pad 8.

CT :sol:

Darkbreeze · Mar 5, 2023

Good advice Comp. I was unaware of those pads and will look into them for something I'm planning to work on here before too long and those could be helpful. But if we're being honest, I'm more interested in whatever crafty little tweaks you've devised in regard to the actual cases themselves, as often those can be applied to a variety of models rather than just one problematic one. But good on popping in anyhow. Always welcome and advice is always welcome too.

Phaaze88 · Mar 16, 2023

Something else to add to this thread are air cooled gpus that exhaust their heat out the back and front, like this one:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/msi-rtx-3070-ventus-2x.b7965 (notice the direction the finstack is running)
Now, I've no experience with this type of cooler, but from what I could tell from other threads, these are less effective in front intake cases, as the gpu exhaust towards the front fights with the air coming in the front.
I figure these do very well in cases that offer side ventilation instead.
Interestingly enough, they're only seen in a brand's lower product tiers, like Ventus, Dual, and Windforce.

instawookie · Mar 16, 2023

Here is a little side project I did on an older rig I had, at that time I hadn't built in a good while and was learning all over again. But the 3090 had released and I slapped it in my 10700k rig, on initial release everyone had concerns of the 3090 Vram temps I myself lacked being confident enough to re-thermal pad the 2k GPU at that time, so I took an alternative measure of have side panel fans added to an Enthoo Pro case to blow directly on the topside of the GPU. I was more than thrilled with the results and still baffled as to why this option isn't being utilized a little more. I wish I could find the pics of the GPU difference when it was underload my images below are just idle differences. But I saw upwards of a 14C difference during game play. Idle was maybe 3-5C none the less it affected the AIO slightly as well with a 2-3C drop in temp using Side panel fans.

https://ibb.co/nzWPYvh