Discussion LHR officially cracked

[alceryes]

It took longer than I expected but, apparently, NiceHash was able to unlock the full potential of LHR cards, for mining.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/antony...ng-full-crypto-mining-speeds/?sh=2e4e9e034fde

It was fun while it lasted.

 

[Ralston18]

So miners start buying up the cards again, unlocking performance, and begin mining away again.

Increasing card prices once more.

So what are the consequences, if any, to the Nvidia card if unlocked?

If not immediate consequences then perhaps longer term?

Can Nvidia determine or otherwise know that LHR was cracked and thus void any warranties?

Seems to me that Nvidia would have a bit of a "backup" for when LHR was cracked.

Unlocking, like many things, may be in that category of it can be done but should not be done.

All in all Nvidia is in the business to sell cards and make a profit.

Not a miner - just wondering.

 

[jasonf2]

I think that between Ethereum's upcoming fork and the general political volatility, especially in China, towards crypto this isn't really going to make a huge impact. Yes some will mine with them, but the wide scale corporate level investment that was consuming cards over the last couple of years isn't nearly as likely. Individuals buying cards and mining with them hasn't been the issue. It is the warehouse sized farms. There is just too much risk with payouts that take too long to realize at this point, and high electricity rates make the return on equipment collapse. The crazy speculative instability in the energy markets and the potential shortages from the Russian fossil fuel mess leaves anything pulling juice on the levels that crypto does in Europe's immediate crosshairs as well. They are going to be left scrambling to heat homes when the natural gas gets shut off. I just hope that some of these fabs that they have been working on start coming online. ASML delays won't help that though either. I have been hearing extended shortage projections into late 2023 regardless.

 

[alceryes]

So what are the consequences, if any, to the Nvidia card if unlocked?

If not immediate consequences then perhaps longer term?

Can Nvidia determine or otherwise know that LHR was cracked and thus void any warranties?

Seems to me that Nvidia would have a bit of a "backup" for when LHR was cracked.

Unlocking, like many things, may be in that category of it can be done but should not be done.

All in all Nvidia is in the business to sell cards and make a profit.

Not a miner - just wondering.

I am speaking from a gamer/regular-consumer standpoint. I doubt NVIDIA will suffer at all.

Long term? NVIDIA will continue to sell bulk cards to miners and hide those sale numbers from the general public - https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/6/2...rges-fine-settlement-gaming-gpu-crypto-mining
Considering that they probably made 5 times the fine's amount by selling to miners, they really don't care about the fine. They'll probably appeal, drag it through legal processes, and get it reduced, anyway.

It could be that NiceHash was able to fool the card/drivers into thinking that it's NOT mining. I don't think they actually 'cracked' anything, per se.

 

[InvalidError]

So miners start buying up the cards again, unlocking performance, and begin mining away again.

A bunch of countries are contemplating banning PoW crypto due to the rising energy crisis and ETH is supposed to go PoS "real soon now (tm)" to evade that potential ban. Now isn't a good time to invest in new GPUs with 300+ days ROI which may never be achieved.

 

[Ralston18]

Good point.

However, I can only wonder about how many miners really consider ROI?

 

[jasonf2]

Good point.

However, I can only wonder about how many miners really consider ROI?

Any of them buying in sufficient volume to really make a difference.

 

[Ralston18]

Perhaps.

Unfortunately I have come across a few stories where small towns etc. have not really worked it all out....

Google "town investing in bitcoin mining".

Sad.

 

[InvalidError]

However, I can only wonder about how many miners really consider ROI?

If you buy GPUs for the sole purpose of crypto-mining, then ROI is the whole point of bothering with it in the first place. A crypto-mining setup cannot yield a net profit, then it is just burning money and few sane people would do that.

 

[Karadjgne]

Why do ppl climb mountains. Because they are there. Same applies to pc's, pc components. Ppl will LN2, push boundaries, try for World Record speeds, even on older equipment like FX cpus, just because the challenge is there. That includes cracks and hacks to get around/over restrictions such as LHR. It was inevitable there would be ppl trying to bust that wide open. Also includes TPM, guaranteed somebody somewhere is trying their hardest to crack that open any bypass cheat restrictions. Just because it's there.

Ppl will be buying every Honda generator available if it means getting another bitcoin, just to bypass electric company grid restrictions.

Can't fight Mother Nature and expect to win. Mother Nature invested ppl with an insatiable desire to overcome obstacles, LHR is just the latest obstacle, TPM will be next.

 

[InvalidError]

Ppl will be buying every Honda generator available if it means getting another bitcoin, just to bypass electric company grid restrictions.

If you need to buy generators to run your crypto-mining farm at current fuel prices, you are headed toward bankruptcy.

 

[Karadjgne]

If you buy gpus to run a farm at current gpu prices, you'll be just as broke. And the Hondas are very fuel efficient, I'd run ours for 8hrs and barely use 1 gallon of gas. But thats also assuming US prices, not China prices, who undoubtedly aren't seeing Russian oil export restrictions.

 

[InvalidError]

If you buy gpus to run a farm at current gpu prices, you'll be just as broke. And the Hondas are very fuel efficient, I'd run ours for 8hrs and barely use 1 gallon of gas.

The amount of gas a generator burns scales with load. Gasoline as an energy density of 46MJ/L (12.8kWh thermal) and the best ICEs currently in existence peak at about 40% efficiency which would give you up to 5kWh usable per kg. Gasoline costs around $1.40/L in China, which is still ~$0.30/kWh vs 0.085/kWh for grid power.

According to NiceHash, you may be able to turn a profit of about $1/day running RTX3070s on gas at $0.30/kWh, though you have to factor in the added maintenance, operating and up-front costs which will most likely leave you with a net loss.

 

[Ralston18]

And I have noticed that bitcoin values are continuing to go down as energy costs go up.

At some point, most mining operations will probably go below breakeven if not already there.

Buying more GPUs, generators, cooling systems, etc, is not going to change things for the better.

Unfortunately, some people (sane or otherwise) just do not understand the realities involved.

 

[jasonf2]

The amount of gas a generator burns scales with load. Gasoline as an energy density of 46MJ/L (12.8kWh thermal) and the best ICEs currently in existence peak at about 40% efficiency which would give you up to 5kWh usable per kg. Gasoline costs around $1.40/L in China, which is still ~$0.30/kWh vs 0.085/kWh for grid power.

According to NiceHash, you may be able to turn a profit of about $1/day running RTX3070s on gas at $0.30/kWh, though you have to factor in the added maintenance, operating and up-front costs which will most likely leave you with a net loss.

Gas generators also only last 1000-3000 hours if properly maintained (on something that small closer to the 1000-2000). So assuming you are using a honda EU2200 at $1129 from northern hydraulic you are looking at $.37-$1.13 per hour operating. Oil has to be changed every 100-200 hours of operating (Depending on conventional or high end synthetics) and you will see fuel consumption per hour increase over the life cycle of the engine. There are valve clearance adjustments, spark plug and head decarbonization that are necessary at intervals as well. When running 24/7 this happens pretty quick. The 8hrs for a gallon of fuel thing is complete bunk. Under full operating load (1800 watts) you get 3.2 hours out the .95 gallon tank. You will be at less than 450 watts to hit the 8.1 hrs runtime. I have done a lot of dry camping over the years and gas generators are expensive to operate and have to be constantly maintained. That goes beyond the fact that you have to keep them fueled up. There are fuel tank extenders available for the ES units, but you still have to down them for maintenance which will generally mean that you will have to have multiple units as well to keep reasonable up time when one blows up. Even if you can fuel hot though, you will be downing your rigs pretty often switching generators around. Profit is questionable on .14 cent/KWH. Pre fuel you are looking at at least 57 cents fixed expense per hour plus oil with at least 80 cents to $1.00 per kwh in fuel at $4 fuel and sipping at 450 watts. Not to mention a pretty probable 1% downtime. Also you will be pulling more than 450 watts depending on your rig. Best case is still $.66 per kwh in fuel at the 1800 watt level plus generator operating overhead.

These numbers do improve somewhat when you go to bigger diesel generators, but not enough to get even close to grid electricity costs.

 

[Karadjgne]

I never said it was a smart thing to do, just that ppl might try it in order to stay off the grid, since that's what's going to be monitored for high use. In China, if you aren't a factory or hospital or similar, you are a small business or home and if you are using 3-4x the power of your neighbors, you'll be scrutinized. A way around that is to use generators, natural/lp gas or even solar panels for at least partial or supplementary time as that power source isn't government scrutinized.

It's bitcoin. Ppl will try anything and everything on the hopes of landing coins, the payout can easily exceed the investment with some luck. Even if it borders on seriously stupid at times.