News Linux can run on only 4MB of SRAM — Azure Sphere and SudoMaker's X1501 Pico show off the extremes of Linux's small-scale potential

[Admin]

Microsoft's Azure Sphere module with 4MB SRAM and SudoMaker's X1501 Pico SoM with 8MB RAM show off two facets of mainline Linux's ability to scale way, way down in both size and power.

Linux can run on only 4MB of SRAM — Azure Sphere and SudoMaker's X1501 Pico show off the extremes of Linux's small-scale potential : Read more

 

[TerryLaze]

DOS can run on 128k doesn't mean it's good.

 

[CmdrShepard]

DOS can run on 128k doesn't mean it's good.

That's not a fair comparison at all. DOS is single-user, and has no multitasking to speak of.

On the other hand, Amiga OS could do most of what Linux OS does 3 decades ago in 512 KB of RAM so... yeah.

 

[TerryLaze]

That's not a fair comparison at all. DOS is single-user, and has no multitasking to speak of.

This linux isn't doing any of that either, I very much doubt it's multithreading either, although it might have some resident stuff but then again dos could also have stuff resident while running other stuff.

he MT3620 is solely designed for Microsoft's Azure Sphere platform, a system for communication and security features between internet-connected devices like appliances. This service connects parts of the Internet of Things together to maximize communication.

On the other hand, Amiga OS could do most of what Linux OS does 3 decades ago in 512 KB of RAM so... yeah.

256k actually since the first Amiga had to load the rom files from a disk and would use main system ram for that leaving only 256k free.

 

[bit_user]

On the other hand, Amiga OS could do most of what Linux OS does 3 decades ago in 512 KB of RAM so... yeah.

LOL, a Motorola 68000 with 512 kB of RAM was like a supercomputer, compared to the original machines UNIX was developed on & for!

 

[bit_user]

This linux isn't doing any of that either, I very much doubt it's multithreading either, although it might have some resident stuff but then again dos could also have stuff resident while running other stuff.

There's no way they ripped out multitasking or multithreading from the Linux kernel. It's not remotely feasible and much easier to just write a new kernel from scratch.

You realize Linux came into being back around 1990, right? I forget the minimum memory requirements, but I'm sure it wasn't more than a couple megs. Recently, people have even gotten it running on a Nintendo 64 with 8 MB of RAM!

 

[TerryLaze]

There's no way they ripped out multitasking or multithreading from the Linux kernel. It's not remotely feasible and much easier to just write a new kernel from scratch.

You realize Linux came into being back around 1990, right? I forget the minimum memory requirements, but I'm sure it wasn't more than a couple megs. Recently, people have even gotten it running on a Nintendo 64 with 8 MB of RAM!

My point is that an internet of things device isn't going to do any multitasking, if they left it in to waste space that's fine I guess but the multithreading/tasking /multi user is not going to do anything useful on such a device other than providing a huge target for hackers.

 

[bit_user]

My point is that an internet of things device isn't going to do any multitasking, if they left it in to waste space that's fine I guess but the multithreading/tasking /multi user is not going to do anything useful on such a device other than providing a huge target for hackers.

In realtime/embedded applications, there are plenty of uses for multitasking. Furthermore, I was recently advising a Masters student on a project he did using a Raspberry Pi Pico, and the kinds of limitations he encountered for lack of a real OS kernel on that thing were pretty frustrating for him. It really limited the kinds of networking libraries and packages he could use in the software he was writing.

As for the multi-user aspect, there's a benefit to having services run under different non-root accounts to limit the damage they can cause and the vulnerability they pose if compromised.

 

[TerryLaze]

In realtime/embedded applications, there are plenty of uses for multitasking. Furthermore, I was recently advising a Masters student on a project he did using a Raspberry Pi Pico, and the kinds of limitations he encountered for lack of a real OS kernel on that thing were pretty frustrating for him. It really limited the kinds of networking libraries and packages he could use in the software he was writing.

As for the multi-user aspect, there's a benefit to having services run under different non-root accounts to limit the damage they can cause and the vulnerability they pose if compromised.

You are assuming that these things will have root, or even any, access at all, usually they only get commands from a validated source like encoded over wifi, directly from the touch screen, or whatever.

Also the whole reason for a tailor made linux is for it to have everything needed and not have anything useless, so a student having to search around for libraries is completely beside this conversation. Every version of this will have everything that that specific device will need.

 

[bit_user]

You are assuming that these things will have root, or even any, access at all, usually they only get commands from a validated source like encoded over wifi, directly from the touch screen, or whatever.

It sounds to me like you're confusing the concept of user privileges with the notion of a command shell. Privileges have value outside the context of a commandline interface.

Also the whole reason for a tailor made linux is for it to have everything needed and not have anything useless,

Yes, and you do that by compiling the kernel with all the build-time options switched off that you don't need. Then, you package it with a minimal userspace. Believe me, I know this stuff. And one thing I know is that there's no kconfig option to compile out threading or multitasking. That stuff is so intrinsic to the design of the kernel that it wouldn't be Linux any more, if someone managed to rip it all out.

so a student having to search around for libraries is completely beside this conversation.

No, it's not. He couldn't use the networking code he wanted, because there wasn't a real OS kernel underneath. That's what you normally find with microcontroller-class machines, like Raspberry Pi Pico and Arduino. The cool thing about this machine is that it has a real OS kernel, so you can use whatever libraries & packages on it that will fit.

 

[TerryLaze]

Yes, and you do that by compiling the kernel with all the build-time options switched off that you don't need. Then, you package it with a minimal userspace. Believe me, I know this stuff. And one thing I know is that there's no kconfig option to compile out threading or multitasking. That stuff is so intrinsic to the design of the kernel that it wouldn't be Linux any more, if someone managed to rip it all out.

So you think that MS took a full linux os with all of its garbage and bloat (compared to what a SoC needs) and compiled/customized that down to a SOC instead of writing a clean OS from the ground up?

This is a linux in 17Mb and it just boots into a command prompt, no users and no nothing.
http://tinycorelinux.net/downloads.html

 

[bit_user]

So you think that MS took a full linux os with all of its garbage and bloat (compared to what a SoC needs) and compiled/customized that down to a SOC instead of writing a clean OS from the ground up?

Yes, that's what "Linux-based" means.

This is a linux in 17Mb and it just boots into a command prompt, no users and no nothing.
http://tinycorelinux.net/downloads.html

It might not have a login prompt, but of course it has the concept of users and privilege levels! Look, it even requires sudo, for privileged operations:

http://tinycorelinux.net/faq.html#root
​

 

[TerryLaze]

It might not have a login prompt, but of course it has the concept of users and privilege levels! Look, it even requires sudo, for privileged operations:

​

http://tinycorelinux.net/faq.html#root​

​

Oh sure, you are not logging in but it still knows that the one typing is the admin and not a simple user.......................................................
Typing sudo is just a confirmation check to make sure that you are sure about what you want to do, if it had any concept of users and privilege levels it would require you to log in with a username and password and supply the admin password for any sudo command, it doesn't.

 

[bit_user]

Oh sure, you are not logging in but it still knows that the one typing is the admin and not a simple user.......................................................
Typing sudo is just a confirmation check to make sure that you are sure about what you want to do,

No. You're describing a usage model, not how it actually works. What sudo actually does is to run the specified command with escalated privileges. You can configure it not to prompt the user for a password, among many other ways you can customize it. See /etc/sudoers, for more information.

If you're already running as root, then there's no need to use it and no way to force someone to.

if it had any concept of users and privilege levels it would require you to log in with a username and password

Nope. In fact, many distros give users the option to get rid of login prompts and automatically sign in as a regular user. No matter how you feel about it, doing that doesn't mean the OS has no concept of users or privileges.

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