Question Liquid cooling/case cooling questions

Bob1nba

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I am putting together a new build and i am using the Fractal Design Meshify 2 case with a 5800x and a Nzxt x73 Kraken 360mm AIO. Now this case has the option to either front mount the liquid cooler as intake or top mount as exhaust. I've heard there are pros and cons to doing it either way but im just trying to figure out how I'm going to get the best cpu and overall case temperatures.

I am going to be buying better case fans to replace the stock fans that come with the case for better cooling performance as well.
 
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Phaaze88

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Depends on the complete hardware configuration. There is no best; there will always be a tradeoff somewhere - try to go with the less screwy config.

Generally:
A)Hybrid mounted at the front = better overall cpu thermals, but a little worse for the gpu.
If the unit has to be installed tubes up, it can't be maintained in that position for as long as top mounted or front mounted(tubes down). Front mounted, tubes down isn't possible in that chassis with a 360mm.

B)Hybrid mounted at the top = better overall for the gpu, but depending on the gpu and cpu combo, the penalty to the cpu cooler up there can be minor, or rather major; it has to deal with cooling both parts, so no, top mounted isn't always best.

@TravisPNW here has a Meshify 2 with a 10900K + Kraken Z73(top) + 3090 setup with no cooling issues, so I guess it wouldn't matter too much what the rest of your hardware was.
Pick your poison.
 

Bob1nba

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Depends on the complete hardware configuration. There is no best; there will always be a tradeoff somewhere - try to go with the less screwy config.

Generally:
A)Hybrid mounted at the front = better overall cpu thermals, but a little worse for the gpu.
If the unit has to be installed tubes up, it can't be maintained in that position for as long as top mounted or front mounted(tubes down). Front mounted, tubes down isn't possible in that chassis with a 360mm.

B)Hybrid mounted at the top = better overall for the gpu, but depending on the gpu and cpu combo, the penalty to the cpu cooler up there can be minor, or rather major; it has to deal with cooling both parts, so no, top mounted isn't always best.

@TravisPNW here has a Meshify 2 with a 10900K + Kraken Z73(top) + 3090 setup with no cooling issues, so I guess it wouldn't matter too much what the rest of your hardware was.
Pick your poison.
Yea I think I talked to him about his setup with this case so im most likely just going to go with the exact way he set his aio and other fans up. Seems like he's happy with it and its working good.
 
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Bob1nba

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Depends on the complete hardware configuration. There is no best; there will always be a tradeoff somewhere - try to go with the less screwy config.

Generally:
A)Hybrid mounted at the front = better overall cpu thermals, but a little worse for the gpu.
If the unit has to be installed tubes up, it can't be maintained in that position for as long as top mounted or front mounted(tubes down). Front mounted, tubes down isn't possible in that chassis with a 360mm.

B)Hybrid mounted at the top = better overall for the gpu, but depending on the gpu and cpu combo, the penalty to the cpu cooler up there can be minor, or rather major; it has to deal with cooling both parts, so no, top mounted isn't always best.

@TravisPNW here has a Meshify 2 with a 10900K + Kraken Z73(top) + 3090 setup with no cooling issues, so I guess it wouldn't matter too much what the rest of your hardware was.
Pick your poison.
My other question is, if I mount my aio up top, that will cover my top fans. But I would like to replace the 3 fans that come with the case with better fans, looking into the be quiet silent wing ones I think travis is using as well. I would need 5 of them though, three for the front intake, at least one for bottom and than one for the rear. That's like 120 bucks. Are the stock fans with this case really not that good? I was thinking I could buy 3 of the be quiet fans for the front intake and use the other two for bottom intake and rear exhaust to save a little money. Whsts your take on that?
 

Phaaze88

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But I would like to replace the 3 fans that come with the case with better fans, looking into the be quiet silent wing
On paper, that would be more of a side grade.
The Dynamic X2 GP-14s(3x included with Meshify 2) and the Silent Wings 3 are both low noise fans, neither really excelling in cooling performance.
There is the 1600rpm high speed model of the SW3, which can deliver better cooling performance at the cost of becoming audible...

use the other two for bottom intake
No. Save yourself some cash right there. Bottom intake fans is a waste of money* not efficient in many chassis because the air resistance present down there is high to the point of being impractical:
[I take back what I said about a 'waste of money'. Even though the cooling is inefficient, if it still looks good to users, they'll still think it's worth it.]
-psu shroud, even if there are some holes punched through it
-the floor of the chassis' proximity to the surface the chassis is sitting on(the hardest of the obstacles present)
-the dust filter
-any psu cables hanging over the fans
To get around all that means some high static pressure, high rpm fans, which will be audible... as such, the contribution to cooling will be outweighed by noise and extra dust.

Whsts your take on that?
Don't knock 'em until you try 'em. Give the Dynamic fans a go for about a week, and if you don't like 'em, then replace 'em.
 
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TravisPNW

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I am putting together a new build and i am using the Fractal Design Meshify 2 case with a 5800x and a Nzxt x73 Kraken 360mm AIO. Now this case has the option to either front mount the liquid cooler as intake or top mount as exhaust. I've heard there are pros and cons to doing it either way but im just trying to figure out how I'm going to get the best cpu and overall case temperatures.

I am going to be buying better case fans to replace the stock fans that come with the case for better cooling performance as well.
Depends on the complete hardware configuration. There is no best; there will always be a tradeoff somewhere - try to go with the less screwy config.

@TravisPNW here has a Meshify 2 with a 10900K + Kraken Z73(top) + 3090 setup with no cooling issues, so I guess it wouldn't matter too much what the rest of your hardware was.
Pick your poison.
Yep... there is no best. I had front mounted on my last build... went top with this build... mainly because I felt like the "front/bottom intake and top/rear exhaust" made the most sense. The last build had a closed front (S340 elite) with vents so it wasn't the best air intake anyway... and I always questioned it. Made it a point to rethink the case this time...

... and OP is buying this case based on my recommendation.

Yea I think I talked to him about his setup with this case so im most likely just going to go with the exact way he set his aio and other fans up. Seems like he's happy with it and its working good.
(y)

Yeah... next week will be 3 months since the build... no problems to report. I haven't even cleaned it yet (LOL) which is just me being lazy. The case looks clean with no visible dust anywhere... even the filters. I'll probably do a closer inspection this week.

On paper, that would be more of a side grade.

No. Save yourself some cash right there. Bottom intake fans is a waste of money* not efficient in many chassis because the air resistance present down there is high to the point of being impractical:
[I take back what I said about a 'waste of money'. Even though the cooling is inefficient, if it still looks good to users, they'll still think it's worth it.]

Don't knock 'em until you try 'em. Give the Dynamic fans a go for about a week, and if you don't like 'em, then replace 'em.
Yep... I replaced all the fans just because... i wanted them to be the same. The 3 that came with the case I still have... and if you change your mind OP and want them let me know. I was more interested in quiet performance than premium cooling. I'm in Seattle and my room temps are in the 60's year round... if I were in Florida surrounded by humidity I'd have to rethink the PC cooling perhaps.

Again OP... here's a pic...



I just put the 1 fan at the bottom... removing the solid shroud above. It was too tight of a fit to put a 2nd fan... I was unable to secure the PSU screws at the back of the case... and the wires from the PSU that are visible thru the vent would be in the way. If I had to do it again I'd probably leave out the bottom fan... but it's there now so whatever.

Let us know what you end up doing OP and if you want those fans...
 
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Bob1nba

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Yep... there is no best. I had front mounted on my last build... went top with this build... mainly because I felt like the "front/bottom intake and top/rear exhaust" made the most sense. The last build had a closed front (S340 elite) with vents so it wasn't the best air intake anyway... and I always questioned it. Made it a point to rethink the case this time...

... and OP is buying this case based on my recommendation.


(y)

Yeah... next week will be 3 months since the build... no problems to report. I haven't even cleaned it yet (LOL) which is just me being lazy. The case looks clean with no visible dust anywhere... even the filters. I'll probably do a closer inspection this week.



Yep... I replaced all the fans just because... i wanted them to be the same. The 3 that came with the case I still have... and if you change your mind OP and want them let me know. I was more interested in quiet performance than premium cooling. I'm in Seattle and my room temps are in the 60's year round... if I were in Florida surrounded by humidity I'd have to rethink the PC cooling perhaps.

Again OP... here's a pic...



I just put the 1 fan at the bottom... removing the solid shroud above. It was too tight of a fit to put a 2nd fan... I was unable to secure the PSU screws at the back of the case... and the wires from the PSU that are visible thru the vent would be in the way. If I had to do it again I'd probably leave out the bottom fan... but it's there now so whatever.

Let us know what you end up doing OP and if you want those fans...
Aren't the Be quiet silent wings 3 fans quiet and also better performance for cooling than the stock fans in this case? I know the sw3 go up to 1600rpm, the stock ones only to 1000. Im just interested in how much that difference in ram affects cooling. If I can get away with using the stock fans that come with the case and still get good cooling id be down with that.
I actually live in Florida btw so yeah, the humidity is real lol.
 
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TravisPNW

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Aren't the Be quiet silent wings 3 fans quiet and also better performance for cooling than the stock fans in this case? I know the sw3 go up to 1600rpm, the stock ones only to 1000. Im just interested in how much that difference in ram affects cooling. If I can get away with using the stock fans that come with the case and still get good cooling id be down with that.
I actually live in Florida btw so yeah, the humidity is real lol.
I'm actually considering a move back to Florida... going to Orlando in 3 weeks for vacation. :LOL: Spent time there years back before the move out west.

Anyway... yeah I'd say the SW3 fans are better... but as far as the difference they make it's hard to say, I never used the stock fans. Like @Phaaze88 said, try the stock fans first if you are worried about cost. You can always swap them if you don't like.

be quiet! Silent Wings 3 140mm PWM High-Speed, BL071, Cooling Fan
  • Great performance-to-noise ratio with 28.1Db(a) at 1, 600Rpm. Air flow - 77.57 CFM. Noise level - 28.1 decibels
  • 6-Pole fan motor for less power consumption and vibration
  • Fluid-dynamic bearing enables super-long life span of 300, 000 hours
  • Fan frame with funnel-shaped air inlets for extremely high air pressure
  • Seven fan blades provide optimized airflow
  • Pwm controlled fan speed by the motherboard
be quiet! silent Wings 3 140mm PWN high-speed stands for state of the art technology and virtually inaudible operation. The extremely High Air pressure produced makes it a perfect choice for powerful water- and air-cooled systems.

great performance-to-noise ratio with 28.1Db(a) at 1, 600rpm
6-pole fan motor with three phases giving very low power consumption and less vibration
advanced fluid-dynamic bearing enables super-long life up to 300, 000h
rubberized fan frame with funnel-shaped Air inlets for extremely high Air pressure
seven fan blades with optimized surface structures ensure excellent airflow
removable anti-vibration mountings reduce transmission of vibrations
pwm controlled fan speed by the motherboard
german product conception, design and quality control
three years manufacturer's warranty

silent Wings 3 PWR high-speed fans are your best choice for any application that requires the ultimate in quiet operation and uncompromised performance.


These are the 1600 rpm version. As said amazing cooling wasn't the reason I bought these because heat isn't really an issue here. I just wanted fans that were quiet and moved a lot of air... (with no RGB) and these fit the bill.
 

Bob1nba

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I'm actually considering a move back to Florida... going to Orlando in 3 weeks for vacation. :LOL: Spent time there years back before the move out west.

Anyway... yeah I'd say the SW3 fans are better... but as far as the difference they make it's hard to say, I never used the stock fans. Like @Phaaze88 said, try the stock fans first if you are worried about cost. You can always swap them if you don't like.

be quiet! Silent Wings 3 140mm PWM High-Speed, BL071, Cooling Fan
  • Great performance-to-noise ratio with 28.1Db(a) at 1, 600Rpm. Air flow - 77.57 CFM. Noise level - 28.1 decibels
  • 6-Pole fan motor for less power consumption and vibration
  • Fluid-dynamic bearing enables super-long life span of 300, 000 hours
  • Fan frame with funnel-shaped air inlets for extremely high air pressure
  • Seven fan blades provide optimized airflow
  • Pwm controlled fan speed by the motherboard
be quiet! silent Wings 3 140mm PWN high-speed stands for state of the art technology and virtually inaudible operation. The extremely High Air pressure produced makes it a perfect choice for powerful water- and air-cooled systems.

great performance-to-noise ratio with 28.1Db(a) at 1, 600rpm
6-pole fan motor with three phases giving very low power consumption and less vibration
advanced fluid-dynamic bearing enables super-long life up to 300, 000h
rubberized fan frame with funnel-shaped Air inlets for extremely high Air pressure
seven fan blades with optimized surface structures ensure excellent airflow
removable anti-vibration mountings reduce transmission of vibrations
pwm controlled fan speed by the motherboard
german product conception, design and quality control
three years manufacturer's warranty

silent Wings 3 PWR high-speed fans are your best choice for any application that requires the ultimate in quiet operation and uncompromised performance.


These are the 1600 rpm version. As said amazing cooling wasn't the reason I bought these because heat isn't really an issue here. I just wanted fans that were quiet and moved a lot of air... (with no RGB) and these fit the bill.
Yea those are the ones I'm looking at. I see newegg has the same ones for 5 dollars cheaper than Amazon. I may just go with three of those for the front intake, and not use one for the bottom (can always add a bottom later if I want). Than I guess I could just use the stock fan for the rear, but than I guess I'd have one random fan thats different.
 
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TravisPNW

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There is the 1600rpm high speed model of the SW3, which can deliver better cooling performance at the cost of becoming audible...
Yeah forgot to mention I have the 1600rpm. I don't hear anything from them... but then again I'm not running them at 100% either given the low ambient room temps... I'll have to speed them up and see if I notice any difference.

Yea those are the ones I'm looking at. I see newegg has the same ones for 5 dollars cheaper than Amazon. I may just go with three of those for the front intake, and not use one for the bottom (can always add a bottom later if I want). Than I guess I could just use the stock fan for the rear, but than I guess I'd have one random fan thats different.
Whatever works for you. Like I said I'd probably skip the bottom fan if I were building today. It's a solid case... one of the better ones available. Cooling isn't going to be an issue.
 

Bob1nba

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Yeah forgot to mention I have the 1600rpm. I don't hear anything from them... but then again I'm not running them at 100% either given the low ambient room temps... I'll have to speed them up and see if I notice any difference.



Whatever works for you. Like I said I'd probably skip the bottom fan if I were building today. It's a solid case... one of the better ones available. Cooling isn't going to be an issue.
How do you control the speeds on the fan, is there software for it? Yeah, and thanks for all your help im confident that this case will be the right fit for my build. I almost have everything I need, im still debating on which x570 mobo im going with but im going to order one here soon. Im also waiting on the gpu but I may just build it with my 2070 super and just swap out when I get it.
 

TravisPNW

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How do you control the speeds on the fan, is there software for it? Yeah, and thanks for all your help im confident that this case will be the right fit for my build. I almost have everything I need, im still debating on which x570 mobo im going with but im going to order one here soon. Im also waiting on the gpu but I may just build it with my 2070 super and just swap out when I get it.
No worries... you should be able to control the PWM fans via the BIOS. That's how I do it. As for your build... once you figure out the mobo I'd probably go ahead and build with the 2070. You know how getting a GPU is right now... just beyond ridiculous and probably will be for all of 2021. I don't see this madness ending anytime soon.
 

Phaaze88

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but then again I'm not running them at 100% either given the low ambient room temps
Aye, and in that scenario, they're not going to be doing much better than the normal SW3 or the Dynamic fans, aside from a wider range of control, but then I have to question how useful that is.
That's why I told the OP just flat out swapping the Dynamic fans for SW3s would be more of a side-grade. If they're trying to save money here and there:
-they skip the bottom fan plan, for the reasons I already explained.
-if they were to get the higher rpm fans and not make use of the extra speed, then there was no need to change out the stock fans, which have a max rpm of 1000 and noise ceiling of 18.9dBA, which is pretty bloody quiet at 100%.

If you or the other guy wants to do it anyway... it's just my 2 cents from a more practical(?) point of view. I can't make any remarks on aesthetics at all.
 
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TravisPNW

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If you or the other guy wants to do it anyway... it's just my 2 cents from a more practical(?) point of view. I can't make any remarks on aesthetics at all.
Yep... and I definitely appreciate the 2 cents. That's one thing I didn't do was come here for advice BEFORE the build... I just threw it all together on a PCPP list and bought the parts. I knew what I wanted but I know I could have tweaked a few things like the fans and probably ended up better off. Either way, not the end of the world but lesson learned for the next build. (y)
 

TravisPNW

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I'm really tempted to do a 'Front mount vs. Top Mount AIO' on the Tom's Hardware system just to try and make this less of a debate.

It's not like I don't have enough coolers to test this with.
Or just enjoy some popcorn behind the scenes, because this debate will NEVER end. EVER.
This is true. I don't see why people worry about it so much. Speaking from experience you are literally talking 1-2C difference either way. I know because as said I had a front mount and now I have a top mount. It's not a big deal which way you do it... it just made more sense to me in terms of airflow to have 3 intake fans in the front and 3 exit fans thru the rad at the top.

Took me like 4 seconds to make that decision.

Didn't even have to post on the forums for advice. :LOL:
 

Phaaze88

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Paranoia?
Overly conscientious? [Is that even a term?]
IDK, but the controversy won't stop even if Steve(GN), JayzTwoCents, rubix_1011, etc, all came together and did a live news report on it.

I'll still stand by the argument that it does depend on the hardware configuration. Every now and then, there's unfortunate situations like the following, or similar:
-9900K
-240mm hybrid, top mount, exhaust
-2080Ti
-Meshify C
A 240mm already isn't adequate with a 9900K at stock, so forget overclocking, but that's just one part of the puzzle.
Include the 2080Ti into the mix: since just about everyone and their mother/father gets the fancy air cooled aftermarket models that dump all their heat in the chassis, the poor 240mm hybrid gets overwhelmed.
In that scenario, moving the 240mm hybrid to the front would be beneficial, at a minor penalty to the 2080Ti - still not an adequate cooler for that cpu, but the thermals should be more reasonable during use.


Few people put in the time to do their own testing - they wants answers on a silver/gold platter.
I took my NZXT Phantom 820 and CM H500P Mesh and did a number of different fan/cooling setups. It was time consuming, but I still had fun with it and learned some things while doing it.

If there was a best fan/cooler setup, it would be:
-hybrid/custom liquid gpu, front intake[Unfortunately, neither is very popular.]
-cpu tower air cooler
All the fans one needs is the fans for the radiator and the air cooler... no other fans are needed.
 
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bikemanI7

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as a Noob with Coolers for CPUs, if i was to go for an AIO for my 10700 Desktop, Top mounted think will go with, 240mm i was looking at for my Thermaltake V200 Case, is that ideal? with the 3 front intake fans, and 1 rear exhaust, Planned on having the AIO exhaust out the top i think if and when i feel comfortable changing from Stock CPU cooler to newer one

In additon usually Desktop is on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, would an AIO be able to keep up with that type of work load, usually cloud backups at night sometimes, external drive backups usually Sunday nights, light video encoding of family videos off and on, Gaming til 2-4am sometimes, just worried AIO wouldn't like the way i use the system
 

TravisPNW

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Paranoia?
Overly conscientious? [Is that even a term?]
IDK, but the controversy won't stop even if Steve(GN), JayzTwoCents, rubix_1011, etc, all came together and did a live news report on it.
I think Steve is the best... I love his no BS approach. Jayz is alright when he's serious. Linus is a complete moron and I unfollowed him a while back. Who is this rubix you speak of? ;)

as a Noob with Coolers for CPUs, if i was to go for an AIO for my 10700 Desktop, Top mounted think will go with, 240mm i was looking at for my Thermaltake V200 Case, is that ideal? with the 3 front intake fans, and 1 rear exhaust, Planned on having the AIO exhaust out the top i think if and when i feel comfortable changing from Stock CPU cooler to newer one

In additon usually Desktop is on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, would an AIO be able to keep up with that type of work load, usually cloud backups at night sometimes, external drive backups usually Sunday nights, light video encoding of family videos off and on, Gaming til 2-4am sometimes, just worried AIO wouldn't like the way i use the system
If you want to do it that way it's perfectly fine... and don't worry about AIO keeping up. They should give you years of solid performance. My last was still running strong at nearly 4 years of use.
 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
:)

I know I don't have the fame these other guys have and certainly do not have my own YouTube channel, but I would if I had the time.

I think the majority of the issues come down to a handful of things:

  1. no one uses forum search
  2. everyone thinks 'their build' is so unique that even if they searched, those other issues do not apply to their build
  3. high percentage of first time AIO users
  4. bought an AIO for the looks and RGB but still want 'the best' cooling
  5. all the above
 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
I would agree, although I've seen the counter-argument to this: (yes, another list):

  1. I don't know how to do this correctly
  2. what if I do this wrong?
  3. how do I know what direction tubes go?
  4. can I break anything or cause damage?
  5. 'I have a friend who said this is bad...' (the 'knowledgeable friend ' who offers all sorts of advice but is likely quite incorrect)
In any of these instances, the real basis is the feeling of doing this all correctly with the idea that it is the best for that person. This does not necessarily mean 'the best' actually exists because the pursuit of this requires the knowledge of the above items overall, hence there is not any need to be asking this on a forum.

TL DR -
Forums are the place for people to ask very vague questions and get exacting details and affirmations to meet their needs, even if they aren't really needed at all.
 

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