Liquid Cooling, getting my feet wet

[pinwi]

Hello guys,

It's been a while since I built my pc (2 years) and decided to take the leap into liquid cooling!
It has been an on-off thing for a while (reading stickies, build logs, etc) but i finally got the courage to do it.
so far here is what i have planned out as far as general layout (case is a nzxt phantom 410, the coloured blocks are somewhat to actual size)
http://imgur.com/3knEdLf
-As seen on the drawing, the top has a limitation as it can only hold radiators up to 30mm thick. Any thicker and i'd have to somewhat punch the top in to fit it (would rather not to tho, too worried about the final holes placement not lining up). Also i would remove the HDD cages to make room for everything, thus needing 5.25'' adapters for both the HDD and SSD.
The pc's relevant Specs are:

CPU: Intel i7-3770k
GPU: EVGA GTX670 FTW 2Gb
MOBO: Asus p8z77-V rev1
RAM: corsair vengeance lp 2x8Gb
PSU: PCP&C MKII 750W
1 HDD, 1SSD and 1 5,25'' drive

-I've browsed for some time now for components but would love some input since i'm completely new to this and i'm not sure it makes sense. Actual list is as follows:
EK-RES X3 110 Reservoir
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_318_659&products_id=35996

MCP 655 Pump with speed control
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=33677

Black Ice Nemesis 240GTS U Profile
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_457_667_200&products_id=40637


Ek Coolstream PE240, front radiator
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_457_667_668&products_id=39430


T adapter for T-line
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/19646/ex-tub-1807/PrimoChill_Acrylic_T_Fitting_Adapter_F-G14-AT.html?tl=g30c499s745


140mm side panel Fan
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=36_316_1293&products_id=37208

120mm Fans x5
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=36_1130_49_1292&products_id=37209


CPU water Block
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_971_498_1124&products_id=33810

GPU block
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=34182


Kill coil
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11441/ex-tub-705/IandH_Silver_KillCoils_-_Antimicrobial_999_Fine_Silver_Tubing_Reservoir_Strip.html

Any suggestions about 5.25'' mounting brackets for hard drives? Also does the gpu block require a backplate?

I am also torn about tubing. I'm not sure about doing it hardline or not...sure enough i could learn how to bend tubes but that implies a lot of extra tubing to make up for my ignorance...What would you recommend?
About the layout, Fan configuration was thought for a bit of positive pressure. Maybe the reservoir would go better on the left, in front of the Video card?

I could use a lot of help from more experienced people since reading has only gotten me so far... is there anything in particular i left out (outside from tubing and fittings) or things i could improve?

I'm sorry if something is not clear enough, I am a bit anxious about all this!
Thanks for any response!

 

[manofchalk]

Far as I can tell everything checks out with the loop, just a lack of fittings.

5.25" mounting brackets are easy as to find, grab whatevers cheapest pretty much. The 2.5" I'm guessing is an SSD, that you can literally just hook up and tuck into a corner somewhere. No moving parts means no vibrations and nothing to break if it shuffles around a bit.
The GPU does not require a backplate.

Tubing, go soft tubing. This is your first water-loop, your gonna stuff something or not be happy with it, and that will require things to be moved and that is a pain when using flexible tubing. Nevermind that hard tubing (read; basically its all fittings) is expensive as and Acrylic requires semi-special tools. Acrylic or hard-pipe tubing look baller as, but thats about it. Dont go that road unless your machine is more of a display piece than anything else.
Keep the res where it is. To mount the reservoir to the grill near the PCI mounts would require a very sharp bend to connect GPU and res. Been there, done that myself. Those zip ties were necessary to prevent it from kinking.
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o537/Manofchalk/DSCF2949_zpsb90ec1b2.jpg

You thought of how your going to drain this thing afterward, or how to fill it? I noticed a T-Fitting in your list, I'm guessing that's part of it.
Flow order?

 

[pinwi]

Didn't think about that tight bend, thank you for the input manfochalk!
i was thinking about this for tubing
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_413_292_1153&products_id=36320
correct me if i'm wrong but that seems pretty standard (methinks 1/2 OD would be too flimsy, only 1/16'' wall) Have you got any rule of thumbs as to how many feet of tubing would i need, so i don't overshoot it as much?
As far as fitting goes i think it's more about looks than actual functionality, although i'm liking compression fitting more (had issues with barbs in the past). Recommendations for fittings? i don't see much difference between one and another, except for the looks. Might be getting one or two 90° ones in case i run into a very tight bend?
I am indeed planning for a drain port between the gpu block and the reservoir with this tube plug
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11880/ex-tub-730/Bitspower_Matte_Black_Sealing_Plug_For_ID_38_Tube_BP-MBWP-C32.html
would the fit be too weird?

I was thinking the road should be more or less like this:
Res-Pump-front rad(fittings on the top)-top rad(fittings on the right)-cpu block- gpu block- res
or
res-pump-front rad(fittings on top)-cpu block- top rad(fittings on the left)-gpu block-res
is that setup too awkward? i mean the routing from the reservoir to the pump might end up looking a bit wonky since its a frontal intake but a 90° fitting would do the trick right?

Insight on this would be greatly appreciated!
PS: Hoping to get a build-log going once things start coming in

 

[manofchalk]

Tubing sizes dont really matter as long as they are compatible with your fittings. There is some reasoning that thicker walled tubing is harder to kink, but overall theres no difference.
How much tubing you need... When I set up my loop I grabbed 3m (which is 9ft I think, will want to check) and had plenty left over. Given your using a far smaller case than I am, could probably get away with 2m (6ft) and still have some left over.

Fittings, get whatever you like the look of.
Angled adapters are definitely very useful to have. Draw your loop onto an image of the case, that will give you a rough idea on where the bends are and you can decide how many angled fittings you need.
Nah, T-Line drains are fairly normal. This is what I had in my loop for a fair while.
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o537/Manofchalk/IMG_20130107_163850_zpsa30d2d09.jpg
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o537/Manofchalk/IMG_20130109_192546_zps766e8473.jpg

For loop order, do whatever looks best and is easiest to route. Loop order has no large impact on performance. I'm liking that first flow order.

 

[4Ryan6]

http://imgur.com/3knEdLf

CPU: Intel i7-3770k
GPU: EVGA GTX670 FTW 2Gb
MOBO: Asus p8z77-V rev1
RAM: corsair vengeance lp 2x8Gb
PSU: PCP&C MKII 750W
1 HDD, 1SSD and 1 5,25'' drive

So from your picture you plan to eliminate your entire HDD carriage rack to mount the lower front 240 rad, use it as intake adding it's heat into the case which will be partially pulled through the top 240 rad and exhausted out the top?

Just from your picture I would turn the 120 rear exhaust fan around as intake to blow some air over the M/B VRs, and let it also supply both of the radiators intake air (So it would need to be a hefty CFM fan), and exhaust the lower rad instead of intake.

Hopefully you have zero overclocking intentions by putting that 3770K and GPU on the same loop, because what you reached overclocking the 3770K without the GPUs heat added, you more than likely won't get back to, so if higher overclocking of your 3770K is your goal going to all this trouble, forget it!

Many think water cooling is a cure all to reach higher goals when in actuality it may turn out being a major disappointment when overclocking is involved, because cases limit the radiator space needed to actually do the job, when in actuality the first thing in the shopping cart should be a case that would actually allow the radiator cooling field needed to do the job.

So IMO the best place to start is letting us know what your intentions going to water cooling in the first place are, looks?, To see if I Can?, My car and motorcycle are water cooled? I want higher overclock headroom? I like water????

To properly advise you, your reasoning to go with water cooling needs to be disclosed, or you may be one dissatisfied individual when it's over, kicking yourself for all the money you've invested?

I am also a 3770K owner by the way, and I know how hot it gets.

 

[pinwi]

So from your picture you plan to eliminate your entire HDD carriage rack to mount the lower front 240 rad, use it as intake adding it's heat into the case which will be partially pulled through the top 240 rad and exhausted out the top?

Just from your picture I would turn the 120 rear exhaust fan around as intake to blow some air over the M/B VRs, and let it also supply both of the radiators intake air (So it would need to be a hefty CFM fan), and exhaust the lower rad instead of intake.

Hopefully you have zero overclocking intentions by putting that 3770K and GPU on the same loop, because what you reached overclocking the 3770K without the GPUs heat added, you more than likely won't get back to, so if higher overclocking of your 3770K is your goal going to all this trouble, forget it!

Many think water cooling is a cure all to reach higher goals when in actuality it may turn out being a major disappointment when overclocking is involved, because cases limit the radiator space needed to actually do the job, when in actuality the first thing in the shopping cart should be a case that would actually allow the radiator cooling field needed to do the job.

So IMO the best place to start is letting us know what your intentions going to water cooling in the first place are, looks?, To see if I Can?, My car and motorcycle are water cooled? I want higher overclock headroom? I like water????

To properly advise you, your reasoning to go with water cooling needs to be disclosed, or you may be one dissatisfied individual when it's over, kicking yourself for all the money you've invested?

I am also a 3770K owner by the way, and I know how hot it gets.

Thanks for the input both!
Well the reason behind my desire to water cool is two fold:
-Higher overclocking headroom, which seems to be out the window from what i understand from your post
-I WANT to learn how to do this. Water cooling is to me like the first step into a much broader spectrum of possibilities.

Maybe there is something I didn't put in the picture because it would've been too awkward, the 140mm intake fan on the side panel. I thought that would've been enough to provide fresh air for both the M/B VRs and the top radiator. Considered also a 120mm intake fan on the bottom, but that would've left me with no space for the pump (maybe welding some kind of cage skeleton with a grid top to mount the pump and also allow for air inflow?) I'm asking since pushing hot air downwards seems a bit odd
So it's hopeless to expect a higher overclocking headroom for my 3770k if i have a GPU in the middle regardless of the two radiators? (something to do with GPUs delta-T being higher than CPU's?)If so then i'd have to compromise between water cooling the GPU and having a higher headroom for the CPU. Any way around it?
Also any way to predict CFM from fans? since nobody provides the P-Flow rate graph for their fans, making the box specs really not meaning a lot...

http://imgur.com/PYdPMuw

Drawed the tubes as you suggested manofchalk (drawed before ryan's response), seems like a 45 degree fitting and pointing the pump towards the radiator should do the trick and if i end up welding the cage, the rise in the pump level would need a 90 degree fitting. Also methinks a 90 degree fitting for the GPU-res tube?

About fittings i 'm deciding between regular barbs with hose clamps from my local hardware store (1USD a pop) of compression fittings (cleaner look)
http://www.sodimac.cl/sodimac-cl/product/133426/18-32-mm-Abrazadera?color=&passedNavAction=

 

[4Ryan6]

A radiator has a dramatic cooling effect on a GPU and that cooling effect under load is better the more rad space you have to dissipate the heat, so lets say your radiator is able to drop the GPUs load heat to 40c, what does that 40c GPU load temperature do added to the CPUs heat before it's even overclocked?

Many that suggest tying it altogether in one loop are not after CPU overclocking headroom so under those circumstances a dual loop setup is the best way to go, that way the GPU heat is isolated from the CPU.

Now radiator wise cooling a single GPU with a full coverage water block should be handled by a bare minimum of a 240 x 40mm thick radiator, a 360 would be better, and a 480 would be best.

Cooling the overclocked 3770K by itself however needs some serious radiator cooling, because a 240 x 40mm is really no better cooling than a Noctua NH-D14 air cooler, (You have to have a large enough radiator cooling field to do the job, or prepare for some serious overclocking disappointment!)

So how do you actually have the cooling you need with the case you have?

Think outside the box!

https://www.google.com/search?q=com...lFcqUyATV4oKABw&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=924

^ Ideas for mounting outside the box from pure genius, to insanity!

Just to give you some ideas!

 

[pinwi]

A radiator has a dramatic cooling effect on a GPU and that cooling effect under load is better the more rad space you have to dissipate the heat, so lets say your radiator is able to drop the GPUs load heat to 40c, what does that 40c GPU load temperature do added to the CPUs heat before it's even overclocked?

Many that suggest tying it altogether in one loop are not after CPU overclocking headroom so under those circumstances a dual loop setup is the best way to go, that way the GPU heat is isolated from the CPU.

Now radiator wise cooling a single GPU with a full coverage water block should be handled by a bare minimum of a 240 x 40mm thick radiator, a 360 would be better, and a 480 would be best.

Cooling the overclocked 3770K by itself however needs some serious radiator cooling, because a 240 x 40mm is really no better cooling than a Noctua NH-D14 air cooler, (You have to have a large enough radiator cooling field to do the job, or prepare for some serious overclocking disappointment!)

So how do you actually have the cooling you need with the case you have?

Think outside the box!

https://www.google.com/search?q=com...lFcqUyATV4oKABw&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=924

^ Ideas for mounting outside the box from pure genius, to insanity!

Just to give you some ideas!

About the thinking outside the box thing...i got an external uncontrollable factor called catzilla which leaves most of out-of-case radiator options out of the picture (fans spinning unprotectedly just isn't safe or both the cat and the pc) so i'd need quite a contraption. I think that instead of spending god knows how much pulling it off i'd be much better off getting another case altogether.🙁
Now i spent a few hours measuring everything and I THINK that, since the panels are symmetrical, i could exchange the right one with the left one and do some ghetto mounting of another dual rad horizontally below the GPU(not on the panel of course), which would result in only top fittings for the GPU and a hole in the side panel (metal mesh on top to prevent kitty issues) but methinks, from the information you provided it's not going to make that much of a difference overclocking-wise.
Taking everything into account I gave it a hard thought and it seems like the only thing that WCing would do for me is punching a 700+ hole in my pocket in exchange for bragging rights and a bit lower temps on my GPU only. I think i'm just going to hold on for now and maybe go for it in a new build with adequate space later on. It's frustrating but thanks for saving me the disappointment and the bucks Ryan, I'm going to stick with air cooling for now.

Also big thanks manofchalk for your help! i'll keep your insights in mind for the future.

 

[4Ryan6]

I totally understand the kitty situation I have three cats and one of them loves to chew wires, which has caused me to armor all exposed wiring that she could get her teeth into.

None of my cats are allowed in my office ever, as cat hair and computers do not get along!

I was not intending to dissuade you from water cooling, I just wanted to make sure you had all the facts before jumping in the deep end of the pool.

Good luck to you and if you ever need any help feel free to PM. Thank You! Ryan

 

[pinwi]

I know right? They are quite the handful
It's not about dissuading or not, thing is if you put it in perspective, the only way to pull it off the way i want it (all things enclosed) would be with extremely heavy case modding. Plus Ivy bridge is known for the steep climbs in temps when overclocking so the returns in headroom with added cooling are marginally descending. So if WC is not going to help my current setup i might as jumping into what i thought would be my next build, designing my own case (got access to a lot of manufacturing methods at uni., mech engineering) with watercooling in mind (case project coming aug this year). Don't worry as you have not disuaded me the slightest :lol:

I will take you up on that last bit 😀

absolutely related: http://i.imgur.com/QdwuTIw.jpg

 

[4Ryan6]

It took some serious cooling to get my 3770K overclocked to 5ghz 24/7 without delidding it, and it wasn't done in just one case either, check out my cooling setup when you have the time.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/282844-29-peltier-water-cooling

 

[manofchalk]

So it's hopeless to expect a higher overclocking headroom for my 3770k if i have a GPU in the middle regardless of the two radiators? (something to do with GPUs delta-T being higher than CPU's?)If so then i'd have to compromise between water cooling the GPU and having a higher headroom for the CPU. Any way around it?

Typically that is done by having multiple loops, each dedicated to different hardware. Though in my opinion, your overclocking wont be that impacted by having a single loop with everything unless your the kind who is into higher tier overclocking. If your aiming for 5Ghz then it matters, if your after 4.5Ghz, probably not.

Also any way to predict CFM from fans? since nobody provides the P-Flow rate graph for their fans, making the box specs really not meaning a lot...

Unless you can find a review on the fans in particular, you'l just have to believe whatever it says on the box. Of course you could just simplify it to all hell, and say " 3 x 120mm fans intake, 2 x 120mm exhaust" and go by the number of similar sized fans in-taking and exhausting.

Also methinks a 90 degree fitting for the GPU-res tube?

You have that T-fitting (hint hint).
😉

About fittings i 'm deciding between regular barbs with hose clamps from my local hardware store (1USD a pop) of compression fittings (cleaner look)
http://www.sodimac.cl/sodimac-cl/product/133426/18-32-mm-Abrazadera?color=&passedNavAction=

Entirely your choice, functionally there is no difference between them.