Liquid CPU Cooling in Thermaltake Commander MS-I Snow Edition

[Darksider13]

Alright, what follows is a relatively detailed description of what I'm dealing with at the moment. If you'd like to skip the details because you think they're unnecessary, jump to the tl;dr below. Thank you either way.

Built my computer about a year and a half ago.

Keep it in relatively warm house running most of the day for the past year. House is kept at around 78-80˚F at all times, sometimes warmer. No heating issues ever. My last computer (totally different setup) never had any issues either with temperature. I move to a new city, post up in an apartment. Room is bigger by a decent amount and this time my computer is literally out in the open standing on stable, thick plywood. I have no ventilation downward save the power supply. The only two fans I have are an intake in the front and an exhaust in the back. Both came with the case. Also fan for GPU and CPU obviously. Both are factory OEM. Runs great and fine for a good long while. Leave it on almost 24/7 because of updates and the unnerving wait of having to let all my startup programs load at boot.

Jump to about 3 or 4 months ago, I noticed the CPU fan having to work extra hard but I didn't think much of it because the games I was playing were getting more demanding on the hardware so I just thought it was a natural need for the fan to keep up with the heat. About 2 months (maybe more) ago, my computer shuts down as if it was a hard shutoff. Totally freaked me out, had no clue what caused it. Thought it was a power fluke. Started investigating but it didn't happen again even after I played whatever game it was at high load. Eventually forgot about it and let the computer keep running.

About 3 weeks to a month ago, starts shutting down like that again almost daily. Eventually narrow it down to an overheating issue considering HWmonitor is showing temps as high as 85˚ C coming from my CPU exclusively. Feel the backplate of my case and I swear could almost cook an egg on it.

I look around and someone said something about resetting CMOS. I do that and have some ram troubles but I fixed those (I'm fairly certain). RainbowSix Siege Alpha comes out, play it totally fine on my desktop then bam, overheats again. This time at 80˚C. Overheats once more playing Alpha at about 82˚. Mind you I've always kept the apartment at least 73˚F. GTA comes out and the overheating gets nasty. Had it overheat about 3 times since GTA's release. About time I need a cooler but I have a couple questions first...

1. Is my CPU f'ed already?

2. Is my CPU socket f'ed already?

3. Last but not least, the most important question: Obviously in need of a new CPU cooling solution. Case is small but I hear very mixed reports of my case being able to do liquid CPU cooling considering the ceiling on the case is about less than an inch high from top of MOBO. Some people say they need to make minor case mods, some say it fits right in. Estimated measurements show I could incorporate an H60 comfortably but the ceiling is the only area of concern. Should I take the jump and order the cooler and if it doesn't fit try a case mod or return it? If I do return it or I shouldn't take the jump, what is the absolute best suggestion for an air-based CPU cooler for an AMD FX-8350? Price is not a huge concern. My ceiling is about $100.

I just need this fixed asap. I keep trying to find ways to manually lower my temps by either pausing the game or just running on low settings but it's always when I get too involved and forget to monitor my temps that my unit overheats. Anyone wanna help a brother out??


tl;dr: CPU may be f'ed, need cooler in case it isn't, some say liquid cooling will work others say it won't in my case. Anyone know if an H60 could naturally fit in a Thermaltake Commander MS-I without need for extra holes or mods? I've seen pictures showing natural fits and I've seen pictures showing the need for the unit to be placed outside of the case because the rad height is too tall to be properly screwed into the case. If not, what's the best air-based CPU cooler money can buy that will make sure this thing doesn't breach 65˚?

 

[Cristi72]

Hello,

First, check if the stock cooler is still in place; dismantle it, clean it from dust, change the thermal compound and put it back, check the temperature. If the temps are still high (over 70C), buy a decent air cooling solution (CM Hyper 212 Plus, 212 EVO or Thermalright True Spirit 120M) or one of the best air coolers (Noctua NH-D15, Phanteks PH-TC14PE_OR).

An H60 is a visually better solution, but you should add an additional fan, which will generate more noise (it is shipped by default with a single fan, you will need a push-pull configuration for better cooling). Also, by mounting it in the back of the case, the motherboard will suffer (you will block the airflow around the VRM area, because the radiator will be positioned right above the VRM radiator; also, a top exhaust fan will not be a solution, the slot being blocked by the same radiator).

 

[Darksider13]

Hello,

First, check if the stock cooler is still in place; dismantle it, clean it from dust, change the thermal compound and put it back, check the temperature. If the temps are still high (over 70C), buy a decent air cooling solution (CM Hyper 212 Plus, 212 EVO or Thermalright True Spirit 120M) or one of the best air coolers (Noctua NH-D15, Phanteks PH-TC14PE_OR).

An H60 is a visually better solution, but you should add an additional fan, which will generate more noise (it is shipped by default with a single fan, you will need a push-pull configuration for better cooling). Also, by mounting it in the back of the case, the motherboard will suffer (you will block the airflow around the VRM area, because the radiator will be positioned right above the VRM radiator; also, a top exhaust fan will not be a solution, the slot being blocked by the same radiator).

I'll check the stock cooler as soon as I get back home. I didn't want to dismantle it because I didn't have any thermal compound to replace on the cooler. As for the VRM radiator, the liquid rad will be close yes, but it won't be crushed up against the VRM radiator. That's if I go through the back and not the side (but the side looks less promising).

Can something as big as the Noctua NH-D15 fit my case? I went through about 5 pages on google and found nothing as far as that goes.

EDIT: Placed an order for the H60 and an extra fan set because f-it. The fact that people have examples of it fitting in their case means that one way or another I can make it happen and I don't wanna risk getting an air-based system if there's no guarantee it will work. It gets here on Wednesday/Thursday. Will update with information in a couple days.

 

[Cristi72]

I'll check the stock cooler as soon as I get back home. I didn't want to dismantle it because I didn't have any thermal compound to replace on the cooler. As for the VRM radiator, the liquid rad will be close yes, but it won't be crushed up against the VRM radiator. That's if I go through the back and not the side (but the side looks less promising).

Can something as big as the Noctua NH-D15 fit my case? I went through about 5 pages on google and found nothing as far as that goes.

EDIT: Placed an order for the H60 and an extra fan set because f-it. The fact that people have examples of it fitting in their case means that one way or another I can make it happen and I don't wanna risk getting an air-based system if there's no guarantee it will work. It gets here on Wednesday/Thursday. Will update with information in a couple days.

The H60 radiator touching the VRM radiator, although not possible, can be a better situation actually. The stock cooler is generating enough airflow to cool the CPU surroundings; by changing it with a liquid cooler, the motherboard will suffer: you will have no airflow in the VRM + NB area, as the VRM will be situated beneath the H60 radiator; moreover, you couldn't mount an additional top case fan right above the VRM, as it will be obstructed by the H60. You will also don't have the choice to mount the cooler on the side panel (because of the GPU), or on the bottom of the case ( the tubing is too short). Mount the original rear fan in the second top slot (the one closer to the 5,25" bays) as intake, or find a solution to mount it inside the case between the motherboard and the 5,25" bays (better): http://i.imgur.com/6qosbgZ.jpg

As for the Noctua: its height is 165 mm, while your case has 170-mm cooler height limitation, so it would fit. It is also a massive component (1,320 Kg, almost 3 pounds) and its theme colour, while fitting perfectly with the Sabertooth colour theme, will stand out as opposed with the clean B/W look of your case (H60 is blending in perfectly).

 

[Darksider13]

The picture above is very close to the setup I'm looking for. It's the H60 rad on a FX-8350 in the Thermaltake Commander MS-I (except it's not the snow edition, there's no difference in sizes whatsoever between the original black variant and my white variant) the motherboard and power supply are different from what I have.

The setups you're talking about aren't quite what I'm looking to do. The VRM on the Sabertooth mobo is right next to where my radiator is so my radiator will actually be keeping it relatively cool. I will have a push-pull configuration for the radiator since I'm getting a dual fan pack as well as the H60. This means I will have two extra fans. The motherboard in the picture is not mine but on my current setup, the VRM radiator is actually sitting right next to where the radiator is setup in the picture above. It won't obstruct anything but it stands out from the mobo with just enough distance (about a couple millimeters distance) to comfortably fit the rad. Considering I will be mounting in the exact same place most likely, the VRM will have some help from the H60 radiator but not a whole lot.

And yeah I know the mobo will suffer which is why with the two extra fans I have at my disposal (my original rear-exhaust fan and the H60's stock fan) I will place one at the top as seen in the image above and I will place one on the side-panel (not shown in the image above). This will mean I have my front intake fan, my two rear-intake fans cooling the radiator, a top exhaust fan and side panel either intake or exhaust fan. I haven't decided on what I want the side-panel's fan to do. Not sure if it's better to keep neutral air pressure or positive. Hear it's about 50/50. This way, the NB has a direct hit from the side-fan and the bottom-front intake, my rad is kept cool with a push-pull system as you mentioned and I have an exhaust at the ceiling to get rid of the hot air as it rises in the system.

That's why I'm half and half currently about having the side fan be an intake or exhaust because I can take all the cool air from the lower half of the area surrounding the case and then have it pushed out as hot air going up and out of the case as I remember air circulation working. BUT, keeping too much air in the case with only one exhaust fan does have a tendency to be bad so I'm not sure which is better. Any ideas?

EDIT: Forgot to mention, though it is shown in the image above, I will NOT have a fan at the bottom of the case. I plan on placing one in there later on but currently as well as after I acquire all the parts for this setup, I will not have a bottom fan.

 

[Cristi72]

Actually, because the H60 radiator is very slim, the VRM radiator will end up being covered by the fan, so you'll have no heat transfer between radiators. Keep a close eye to the VRM temperature.

In my opinion, the most important feature of a cooling system is to keep a good airflow inside the case; areas with no air circulation must be avoided. As for the positive/negative air pressure inside the case: I prefer a case with positive air pressure because it's easier to manage the temps (the hot air will be forced to mount and it will build up in the upper area of the case, where most enclosures have open vents and/or fans). A neutral pressure inside the case cannot be achieved, because the air pressure is constantly changing according to the temperature.

Your GTX780 has the reference cooler, which exhausts all the hot air outside the case; a side fan will not bring tangible results, but a bottom fan working as intake will definitely help (less GPU temperature, and at the same time more air will reach the upper areas of the motherboard).

 

[Darksider13]

Okay so take the side fan and put it at the bottom. Will do. Also I just found I actually don't have a front intake fan so is it better to have a front intake fan or a top exhaust fan do you think?

 

[Cristi72]

Okay so take the side fan and put it at the bottom. Will do. Also I just found I actually don't have a front intake fan so is it better to have a front intake fan or a top exhaust fan do you think?

Well, that means you can test by yourself the differences between having a positive (front intake) or a negative (top exhaust) air pressure setup In your desired configuration though (H60 fans as intake), a top exhaust fan can be better (it quickly evacuates the hot air coming from H60).

I would mount both fans (front + top), this way the HDDs are also properly cooled.

 

[Darksider13]

http://imgur.com/L3XU85l

Alright so that is my current setup right now. I didn't get to drill extra bottom holes for the fan at the top left so it only has two screws from the top into the radiator. It's stable though, not necessarily flush but stable (also I had to turn the fan around after this picture because it was facing the wrong direction). The second fan on the top left is screwed in using the top two screws as well. Wish corsair would give you an extra 4 to work with considering most people would put a second fan on it anyway.

So yeah the rear intake mount is stable, quiet and smooth. The tubes are a bit big but they work. If you have 4 sticks of ram, those tubes may make life a little difficult because they do push up against the A1 stick (far left). The front intake fan is unseen but does help airflow. My top fan mount isn't flush and doesn't meet the holes provided by the case but it's stable and does its job unobstructed. So far my Mobo temps as of this exact moment are 40 Celsius (package) and my CPU temp is 20 Celsius (package) these temps are read through HWMonitor. Thing is super quiet compared to before and I haven't overclocked anything yet. I'm going to run a test with GTA V and see how hot it will go at stock clocks. If I seem to have some headroom I will overclock to 4.25 and see how it goes from there.

So far the setup seems to be working though things are very tightly packed. For anyone looking to get this case or who has this case and is planning to upgrade PLEASE UPGRADE. It will save you a lot of hassle in the future.

Thanks to Cristi for all the help with fan formats and cooling suggestions. I will report if I come into any issues.

 

[Cristi72]

http://imgur.com/L3XU85l

It seems that your system is now a pull-pull system: both fans are taking air from the radiator. For a push-pull setup, both fans must be oriented in the same direction, so first fan will will push the air through the radiator and the second fan will pull the air from the radiator. There is an unexpected advantage for your setup though: because the fans are not tightly mounted to the radiator, the existing gaps allows the fans to circulate some hot air coming from the VRM radiator, so it can be a win-win situation. What are the temps now?

 

[Darksider13]

http://imgur.com/L3XU85l

It seems that your system is now a pull-pull system: both fans are taking air from the radiator. For a push-pull setup, both fans must be oriented in the same direction, so first fan will will push the air through the radiator and the second fan will pull the air from the radiator. There is an unexpected advantage for your setup though: because the fans are not tightly mounted to the radiator, the existing gaps allows the fans to circulate some hot air coming from the VRM radiator, so it can be a win-win situation. What are the temps now?

A year and a half later and I'm just now replying lol. Sorry about the delay!

So far temps have been great and I have not yet (knock on wood) had a temp issue with the system. The air coming from the top of the system is actually rather neutral (bordering on the cooler side) so I'm thinking I like the current setup. I decided to go Pull-Pull because I wanted to make sure I had a decent amount of cooling on the motherboard and the graphics card since my card pulls air from inside the case and pushes it out. Though I would really prefer to have neutral air pressure in the case, I don't feel the fan at the front (cooling the HDDs and SSD) is giving enough air to cool all the mobo and the graphics card. If I had more space for fan placements on my mobo I'd probably buy another one to put on the side and create a pull-push setup for my radiator. Though it'd be positive in pressure, I'd feel much better having more air focused on the remainder of the internals.